384 réponses à ce sujet

[jamesp81]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

jamesp81 wrote...

The charges were bogus, and two admirals (Daro'Xen and Han'Gerrel) ****ing well knew it from the get go.  It was nothing more than a show trial, worthy of the worst sort of banana-republic dictators throughout all of history.

The charge that Tali risked the fleet safely was only bogus in so much that geth from parts Tali had sent back did not just overrun a research ship.

No, the trial had no relation in scope or nature to the trials of the worst of the worst dictatorships. The verdict was neither decided before the start, nor was the punishment fatal or even physically harmful. Get some perspective.

As for his crew, Shepard recruited people he had to work with to get the job done.  No one made the Admiralty Board put on a show trial.  It was never necessary; that's one thing Daro'Xen was right on.

You can actually avoid a good four, five people of your team, and the ones you do have to aren't even necessary for the trip. In lieu of Jack, you could get away with any biotic.

Shepard does what Shepard thinks is necessary. Quarian admirals do what they think is necessary for the good of the Quarians... whether that means a dispute over their very real future spilling over elsewhere or not.

As for Shepard, he is in a position to do whatever he damned well pleases and it doesn't matter one iota what anyone else thinks of that.

Now that's an amazingly petty argument.

The punishment was exile.  The punishment was exile because 1) the Quarians don't have the death penalty and 2) they can't afford to house prisoners or life sentences.  If they did have the death penalty, I'm quite certain they'd have imposed it in the case of a guilty verdict.  What they did is morally equivalent to attempting to put someone to death, who was innocent, for politlcal reasons.  They are not going to find that I'm OK with that since no harm no foul.  Or, to paraphrase Shepard when he talked to Ronald Taylor, there's no way he's going to let this slide.  A price will be paid.

It doesn't matter if you think my final argument is petty.  Shepard can supply some damned good reasons for recruiting a few shady individuals.  The Admiralty board has not rendered a single solitary reason, of any kind, why they were charging an innocent person with a capital offense.

And it's really not going to matter if my argument is petty when I hit the button that blows Koris and Xen out the airlock.

[Jonathan Shepard]

Korris Qwib Qwib.

[marshalleck]

Drachasor wrote...

Caution is prudent, there's a lot of distrust on both sides and many, many years of hatred.  Still, peace and cooperation is worth pursuing, imho.  Legion certainly showed the Geth don't hate all organics and dislike the Reapers, unless the Geth are playing a very deep game indeed (which seems kind of crazy with the Reapers on their way and counter-productive if Legion's Geth are with the Reapers).

If we were going to distruct races, the Quarians would be fairly high on the list, since they were the ones that struck first and decided to wipe out the Geth because they asked about souls.  That's pretty harsh.

The quarians alive in ME's time period are nto responsible for the creation of the geth, and they are not responsible for the actions that precipitated the Morning War. Why do you continually seek to pursue this "sins of the father" angle? 

[GuardianAngel470]

I belatedly support Qwib Qwib. I absolutely hate the guy; he is manipulative, cruel for dragging Tali into his politics, it was probably his idea to try her for treason in the first place, he calls me a better speaker than a soldier (as if he could honestly hope to beat me in a fight), he moves to try Tali postumously, and he's just a jerk.

I hate that agreeing with him validates his opinion, I hate that I don't have the option to say something along these lines:

"I agree with you admiral, but you're going about it the wrong way. You tried to use my crewmember to further your own ends. Anyone else did that I'd kill them."

And I hate that what my character does say is basically the exact opposite of what I want to say.

[Reapinger]

The Quarians are stupid for thinking they could reclaim their planet. The Geth state that they are caretakers for the Creators. It implies to me that if the Quarians trued to make a truce the Geth would accept and leave the Quarian home world right? Just sayin'

[Reapinger]

mrsph wrote...

Reapinger wrote...

The Quarians are stupid for thinking they could reclaim their planet. The Geth state that they are caretakers for the Creators. It implies to me that if the Quarians trued to make a truce the Geth would accept and leave the Quarian home world right? Just sayin'

Then maybe the geth should get off their ass, and I don't know, try to communicate this fact. Since  the galaxy at large believes the geth are a hostile force that could potentially be building their forces for another go.

If you were a machine and made logical decisions and the only contact you've really had with other sentient biengs is being attacked by those that created you wouldn't you be a bit upset? They're building "their own future" and they had contact with Nazara before anyone else. They are militarizing to keep themselves safe from the old machines. ;D that's all

[Reapinger]

mrsph wrote...

Reapinger wrote...
If you were a machine and made logical decisions and the only contact you've really had with other sentient biengs is being attacked by those that created you wouldn't you be a bit upset?

The logical conclusion would be to try to communicate that I'm not a threat.

They asked a question and were killed for it, attempted to be exterminated. Probably tried, honestly. They sure didn't attack first.

[Destroy Raiden_]

I'm on no ones side. I will hear all arguments then base my own actions on them.

[Reapinger]

mrsph wrote...

Reapinger wrote...
They asked a question and were killed for it, attempted to be exterminated. Probably tried, honestly. They sure didn't attack first.

And after 300 years they have never tried to establish communications with other organics to try and establish peace, or clear up any misunderstandings. They've never tried to contact the quarians to see if they would negotiate for peace.

Instead, they attack anything that goes in their territory. And let a genocidal faction run off and kill millions, without even warning the galaxy.

As much as I like the geth, at least half (maybe even more) of the quarian/geth conflict is their fault.

Completely disagree... Geth were attacked for asking if they had souls. Sorry if people didn't get the message by still going into the Perseus veil after ships were attacked. I'm sure the reason they did it will become clear in ME3. I completely support the Geth.

[NKKKK]

None of the above.

Peace can be settled between them without these admirals.

[Reapinger]

Just waiting to make my alliance with the Geth in ME3. If it comes down to choosing between them and the Quarians I'll def pick the Geth.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Xen is the only admiral that I respect.

That's precisely why I will kill her in ME3 if I get the chance.

[GodWood]

I'm down with Xen's idea.
My only fear is Bioware won't let me side with her.

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
Xen is the only admiral that I respect.

That's precisely why I will kill her in ME3 if I get the chance.

Ok, wat?

[atheelogos]

Mesina2 wrote...

Admiral vas Qwib Qwib since he's not a moron.

He might be a douche but not a moron.

lol this
He wants to solve for peace. That, imo, is a worthy goal.

[ObserverStatus]

I'm with Tonbay, I don't want to get involved.

[VendettaI154]

I'm with Qwib Qwib, Quarians should have colonized a new world centuries ago, stupid of them not to.

[DeadLetterBox]

Reapinger wrote...

mrsph wrote...

Reapinger wrote...
They asked a question and were killed for it, attempted to be exterminated. Probably tried, honestly. They sure didn't attack first.

And after 300 years they have never tried to establish communications with other organics to try and establish peace, or clear up any misunderstandings. They've never tried to contact the quarians to see if they would negotiate for peace.

Instead, they attack anything that goes in their territory. And let a genocidal faction run off and kill millions, without even warning the galaxy.

As much as I like the geth, at least half (maybe even more) of the quarian/geth conflict is their fault.

Completely disagree... Geth were attacked for asking if they had souls. Sorry if people didn't get the message by still going into the Perseus veil after ships were attacked. I'm sure the reason they did it will become clear in ME3. I completely support the Geth.

If you take Legion with you to talk to the Admirals Qwib Qwib will ask if there can be peace, and Legion says it would take a lot to convince the geth since every other truce they've attempted with the creators has ended in another attack on the geth.  

I've always found it to be perfectly logical that the geth wouldn't want to be exterminated.  I've almost-fought with Tali on this a few times.  So, I agree with Qwib Qwib, though I really wish he wasn't the one I agreed with, because he's a weasel.

[Lapis Lazuli]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Xen is the only admiral that I respect.

That's precisely why I will kill her in ME3 if I get the chance.

...I'll keep my distance. I wouldn't want you to respect me.

[Ieldra]

"They are our children".

This statement by Zaal'Koris sums it up in one sentence. The quarians created a new intelligent species, no matter that it is not based on carbon chemistry and water. They may have done so inadvertently, but it is nonetheless a great achievement and imposes an even greater responsibility, a responsibility not unlike a parent's. Someone who refuses to consider other possibilities than destruction or one-sided domination does not act in accordance with that responsibility.

Peace and a solution of the conflict that includes the return of the quarians to their homeword - a world the geth don't really need - is a goal worth pursuing, and as hinted by Legion, not an impossible one. As for pragmatic considerations, if the quarians and the geth are involved in a war then they aren't available for the fight against the Reapers.

So the ethical and the pragmatic considerations point in the same direction: Zaal'Koris is right.