90 réponses à ce sujet

[UBER GEEKZILLA]

i meen its not completly diffrent from the first one. its just a little more fast paced, and people complaining abiut haveing to press the a button nonstop, well at least now you dont just sit there and do nothing, and the game is very challenging on hardcore mode too. i dont get it why are people dissin the combat

[TJPags]

Did you miss the paratrooper reinforcements during every fight?

I'll add that, to me, the lack of friendly fire on any level except nightmare is annoying.

[Sussurus]

For me it's that every build ends up exactly the same... or is junk.
That it enforces tank / two handed tank, rogue, battlemage / force mage builds.

I like choice, variation and specialisation, I don't always want to kill stuff in "awesome" ways.
Rather I may wish to be a healer or controller with no damage spells at all, or a leader and champion.
Well that failed dismally in DA:2, choice with only one path being of use is not choice.

[tek427]

I enjoyed the combat of DA:II. I can see that the DA:O combat is more strategy focused and the DA:II combat is more action focused. I find nothing more pleasing in the game than using Firestorm on a horde of unfortunate bandits.

[Nerdage]

I think the larger problem is encounter design, with the inexplicable reinforcements. I'd also quite like to see AoEs reduced back to about where they were in Origins so friendly-fire could be brought back for normal difficulty and up, but that's not such a deal-breaker.

Modifié par nerdage, 10 mai 2011 - 12:19 .

[Icy Magebane]

I think the combat is probably the best part of the game. It could use some tweaking, of course... enemies teleporting into the fight out of thin air is incredulous, and don't get me started on all the lore-breaking teleportation that mages pull off (gonna keep calling it that regardless of what Bioware says until the PC can do it too). I'd have gone with more subtle fatalities from time to time... but whatever, like I said, IMO it's why I like this game. That's not meant to be an insult to the storyline, but I guess you could take it that way...

[Texhnolyze101]

i prefer origins combat

[Melca36]

UBER GEEKZILLA wrote...

i meen its not completly diffrent from the first one. its just a little more fast paced, and people complaining abiut haveing to press the a button nonstop, well at least now you dont just sit there and do nothing, and the game is very challenging on hardcore mode too. i dont get it why are people dissin the combat

Its about the waves of enemies that materialize out of nowhere. Its about the bodies that explode after a single backstab.

Combat should NOT just be about increasing the difficulty setting.  

There is no variation. Its the same battle over and over and over again. 

[Daveros]

I enjoyed the combat in DA2 quite a bit more than DA:O. I found Origins to be a bit boring, in all honesty.

[Nathanmaxtro]

I'm playing on the PS3 and combat feels exactly the same is it did in orgins.

The only differenece is that enemies always call for back up and I can't Mana Clash mages, who on higher difficulties, can kill my entire party with one attack...

[GodWood]

My Issues with DA2's Combat:
~ No friendly fire unless on Nightmare
~ Constantly needing to hammer A (although I'm told I can change this .... haven't bothered to check)
~ Presentation (bodies exploding, characters doing backflips, teleportation etc)
~ Waves of enemies.

That's not to say it's completly flawed though, there are some significant improvemnts on the console version (being able to issue individual commands)

[IanPolaris]

The OP's message has hereby been endorsed by the Kirkwallian 101st Platemail Airborn Division.

Motto: "Who says you can't paradrop in platemail inside buildings?"

-Polaris

[dreadpiratesnugglecakes]

Faster combat sounded better in theory; silly in practice. I found the ninja mages to be silly; the airborn reinforcements to be cringe inducing..and the exploding bodies...just do this. Every time someone explodes during a fight, make a loud farting noise, like a balloon losing air. Feel ridiculous at how much you're doing it? Good, because single hits causing bodies to fragment like someone shoved a grenade down their pants made the combat ridiculous; hence my invention of the above game to lighten my spirits and continue playing.

[Corto81]

Pros:
- faster pace
- no more Warden shuffle
- no more enemies walking past you but you can't hit them because they're in motion

Cons:
- waves of enemies... seriously
- exploding bodies... really?
- no FF except on NM
- NM being more tedious instead of more challenging

In the end, where DA:O combat wasn't as visually appealing, it felt realistic, gritty and visceral...
DA2 combat speed is a definite improvement, but everything else went the way of dumbing it down and in favor of the "awesome" effect.

[Pandaman102]

Not particularly interested in wasting my time arguing something that's a matter of opinion (you like the combat? great, doesn't change the fact that people hate it, deal with it), however there is one point I have to call you out on:

UBER GEEKZILLA wrote...

people complaining abiut haveing to press the a button nonstop, well at least now you dont just sit there and do nothing

That's a bug. Bioware admitted autoattack was accidentally left ouf of the console versions, they addressed it with a patch. You can't defend something that the developers admitted was a mistake. You can still "just sit there and do nothing" in DA2, especially if you spend the time to set up a good sequence of tactics in each companion.

[Deztyn]

Aside from what others mentioned, what I found annoying was how you're practically forced to play with specific companions through the game because of their limited ability trees. It's great for immersion that they have different skill sets and weapon styles. It's annoying for gameplay reasons. I tend to go through each playthrough with one party that complements that specific Hawke's class and build. I've realized lately that I've missed out on interesting banters between companions because of it.

Modifié par Deztyn, 10 mai 2011 - 09:13 .

[brigantine]

I actually loved the new combat system! I did have problems with, as others have pointed out, the way additional enemies beamed down to the planet. It took away the ability to use strategical positions to form choke points and such that DA:O had. If they made the original wave of enemies smarter/stronger and got rid of the beaming in of trash mobs then tactics could again be used.

[Richard parrington]

The main problem I have found with the new combat system is that when I go back to play DA:O I find myself extremely bored by the combat.
I found I had largely the same problem with going back to play Mass Effect after playing Mass Effect 2, the story was as excellent as ever but the combat seemed slow and dull.
Since I play play games to have fun I must say that the new system achieves that wonderfully.

[TheBlackBaron]

nerdage wrote...

I think the larger problem is encounter design, with the inexplicable reinforcements. I'd also quite like to see AoEs reduced back to about where they were in Origins so friendly-fire could be brought back for normal difficulty and up, but that's not such a deal-breaker.

This. 

By and large, the combat system itself is a big improvement over DA:O - one of the few areas where DA2 was a definite sucess, imo. But the godawful design and over-the-top aesthetics for the sake of the awesome button were a big problem. 

If they keep the underlying mechanics and speed while returning to the more gritty and low-key Origins style (there was still blood fricking everywhere, so you can't really call it realistic, but at least bodies weren't exploding into gibs at the slightest contact), and definitely return to intelligent encounter design and stop reusing the same assets over and over, that would be ideal. 

Modifié par TheBlackBaron, 10 mai 2011 - 09:59 .

[Must have name]

My issues:
- On Normal, it's simply press R to win (PC version).
- On Nightmare, it's simply knowing when and where the waves are going to appear and hoping the CC you use on the Assassin takes effect before he vanishes.
- Friendly fire is Nightmare only. Probably because most abilities are simply not FF-friendly due to their wide arcs (not to mention winter's grasp...).
- Waves of enemies. A lot of the combat is just fast paced killing of enemies with little to no health at all, essentially padding.
- No ability to pre-emptively initiate combat unlike Origins.
- Health / damage numbers are pretty flawed. It just doesn't sit right that I have only 100-300 HP yet my attacks can deal damage in the thousands easily. It makes the FF situation a lot worse (the number of times on Nightmare one of my party would randomly die simply because of Winter's Grasp...).

I replayed Origins after a couple of DA2 playthroughs and I was amazed how much better DAO felt relatively. I think I preferred it slower as well.

Modifié par Must have name, 10 mai 2011 - 10:06 .

[Suron]

my issues with the combat change are pretty much EVERY one mentioned here. from teleporting mages (screw Bio's stupid "excuse" for it. 1. I don't buy it and 2. why can't my PC's do it?) to the exploding corpses. pretty much EVER. SINGLE. THING. MENTIONED. IS. LAUGHABLE.

[Faroth]

They didn't tweak combat from Origins. They took tactical, strategy based combat and turned it into mindless hack n' slash with Mortal Kombat blood explosions from every blasted attack.

All they needed was to adjust the shuffling and speed combat up a little. They didn't need to make it a hack n' slash action RPG. It's the successor to Origins, not Kingdom Hearts.

Instead we just get waves and waves of adds that spawn from nowhere. Ninja Templars from the rooftops, abominations rising from the ground the same way demons do. It was mind numbing and pointless. Move towards enemy, charge to explode weak ones. Mash attack button repeatedly until the one with more health dies.

I didn't have much difference on boss fights except for adding the kiting while companions wear it down to the tactics. I never bothered telling my companions what their tactics should be (other than Anders not using all his sustained abilities and draining his mana). This was on normal, granted. But I had more tactics in place in Origins and was able to lure enemies into ambushes and lay out a plan going into the battlefield.

Real combat?
Go put on a 75 pound suit of armor, pick up a 10 pound sword, and spend about 20 minutes running in it, swining the sword and see how fast paced you think combat should be. To me a dark fantasy has a bit of realism. DA2 combat eliminated any remote semblance of it.

[G00N3R7883]

I've seen two major complaints about combat.

The graphical style, referring to how enemies explode into a shower of blood when they die. This didn't bother me too much, but I can definately understand how it would bother some players.

The waves of enemies. This did bother me - not so much that I'm like "OMG RAGE!" but still it was a bit annoying. The problem (apart from the logistics of "does this actually make sense?") is that it killed any possibility of tactics. There's no point strategically positioning your party with warriors at the front and mages at the back, because very soon a bunch of enemies will spawn on top of the mages anyway. All my fights devolved into me just spamming area of effect spells from my Hawke-mage, and Merrill.

The waves thing would have been okay if it was something that happened in say 10% of fights. In that scenario it would have given some nice variety.

Modifié par G00N3R7883, 10 mai 2011 - 02:20 .

[Pandaman102]

Faroth wrote...

All they needed was to adjust the shuffling and speed combat up a little. They didn't need to make it a hack n' slash action RPG. It's the successor to Origins, not Kingdom Hearts.

To be fair, they needed to speed up the animation (two-handed swings were kinda ridiculous) and fix the AI so you couldn't do the "creep forward, shoot one, watch the others ignore it as it runs screaming down your direction" - which is a pretty basic AI behavior in every other game. The difficulty is in tweaking how quickly the surrounding mobs react, because it's also a little ridiculous when everything in the area zeroes in on you when you're sniping (one of the things I really hated about Infiltrators in ME1).

[happy_daiz]

I could do without the exploding enemies and vanishing ninjas, but overall, I thought the combat felt more fluid in DA2. As with anything, though, it's all a matter of opinion.

As Varric would say, "Opinions are like testicles. You kick them hard enough, it doesn't matter how many you've got."