90 réponses à ce sujet

[Sussurus]

Before I type anything let me appoligise for A: hacking up your post and B: if it comes off as disagreement.
Nothing I post is meant to be against what you say.. which is right and well put.

G00N3R7883 wrote...
 All my fights devolved into me just spamming area of effect spells from my Hawke-mage, and Merrill.

AoE damage spells, if the non agressive none damage talents had been made right.
I:E Larger AoE, longer duration, lower cooldowns, more effective in ability, made a sustained player activated ability like Miasma in DA:O..
Spirithealer having larger AoE or party wide like Heroic aura, instead if 50 regen have 5 - 10% healing effect...
Basically the wave system removed all options by making them useless for the combat system, apart from damage and AoE damage.

The waves thing would have been okay if it was something that happened in say 10% of fights. In that scenario it would have given some nice variety.

Yes it would have been fun if used sparingly, and off approriate ranks, areas and creature types.


Two new things:
1. I don't think combat speed was faulty in DA:O, the amination and poor variation was howver to slow and to few for me.
2. I hate as someone posted above the health and how it's handled, unless you stick a dozen points into it your character stays the same all game.. doing so makes it weaker other areas.
NPC's don't have this they improve across the board, free of charge and have insane levels of health if not of normal rank.

Modifié par Sussurus, 10 mai 2011 - 04:40 .

[Faroth]

Sussurus wrote...

NPC's don't have this they improve across the board, free of charge and have insane levels of health if not of normal rank.

I've searched high and low in Kirkwall and haven't found the Administrations building for Evil Villain School either.  Cursed Evil Villain School!!! 

[Haexpane]

UBER GEEKZILLA wrote...

i meen its not completly diffrent from the first one. its just a little more fast paced, and people complaining abiut haveing to press the a button nonstop, well at least now you dont just sit there and do nothing, and the game is very challenging on hardcore mode too. i dont get it why are people dissin the combat

AKSHUALLY auto attack is finally in on the consoles.

So now, yeah, we actually do sit there and do nothing, and listen to the BENNY HILL song play as my party runs around playing whack a mole w/ invisible ninjas.

[Sussurus]

Faroth wrote...

Sussurus wrote...

NPC's don't have this they improve across the board, free of charge and have insane levels of health if not of normal rank.

I've searched high and low in Kirkwall and haven't found the Administrations building for Evil Villain School either.  Cursed Evil Villain School!!! 

You have found it already, it's just a sixth sense moment.

Spoiler............................... It's Hawkes manors secret basement portal of amazing magical path alteration.

[happy_daiz]

Haexpane wrote...

AKSHUALLY auto attack is finally in on the consoles.

So now, yeah, we actually do sit there and do nothing, and listen to the BENNY HILL song play as my party runs around playing whack a mole w/ invisible ninjas.

OMG, the visual was awesome!

[Pasquale1234]

Faroth wrote...

They didn't tweak combat from Origins. They took tactical, strategy based combat and turned it into mindless hack n' slash with Mortal Kombat blood explosions from every blasted attack.

All they needed was to adjust the shuffling and speed combat up a little. They didn't need to make it a hack n' slash action RPG. It's the successor to Origins, not Kingdom Hearts.

Instead we just get waves and waves of adds that spawn from nowhere. Ninja Templars from the rooftops, abominations rising from the ground the same way demons do. It was mind numbing and pointless. Move towards enemy, charge to explode weak ones. Mash attack button repeatedly until the one with more health dies.

I didn't have much difference on boss fights except for adding the kiting while companions wear it down to the tactics. I never bothered telling my companions what their tactics should be (other than Anders not using all his sustained abilities and draining his mana). This was on normal, granted. But I had more tactics in place in Origins and was able to lure enemies into ambushes and lay out a plan going into the battlefield.

Real combat?
Go put on a 75 pound suit of armor, pick up a 10 pound sword, and spend about 20 minutes running in it, swining the sword and see how fast paced you think combat should be. To me a dark fantasy has a bit of realism. DA2 combat eliminated any remote semblance of it.

This.

I much preferred combat in DA:O

[The Dubious]

The only thing I cared for what if the new battle system was execution of spells and such for mages- In Origins the mage class was one of my favorite class (not at first), but my mage Warden often got distracted whilst charging up powerful spells and would walk off at whim. Drove me nuts!

[Retrogue]

Heh, I actually like the acrobatics my rogue pulled while in combat. Flips and pirouettes are cool, though I might have felt differently about them had I been playing a male rogue. The exploding bodies and the hordes of enemies materializing from the rafters, though? Fail.

My Origins character was a mage and I thought there were too many spells to choose from. Yes, it allowed for a huge window of customization but... Really? Do we need THAT many to choose from? Maybe I just felt that way because I couldn't make up my mind about what spells to take. I don't know.

Modifié par Retrogue, 11 mai 2011 - 12:48 .

[Addai]

Well, as I told the spousal unit, this is the DA2 theme in my mind.

Modifié par Addai67, 11 mai 2011 - 04:09 .

[Zjarcal]

Addai67 wrote...

Well, as I told the spousal unit, this is the DA2 theme in my mind.

I would LOVE to have that theme playing during combat in my game! 

As for the thread, I happen to love DA2's combat despite its quirks, much more than Origin's combat.

[Brockololly]

Addai67 wrote...

Well, as I told the spousal unit, this is the DA2 theme in my mind.

Hehe, I always heard this for DA2 combat once Hawke and Friends started flying around with people randomly expldoding into showers of gore and giblets.


As for DA2's combat- I just found it terribly boring, uninvolved and just not enjoyable. The waves don't help and I think even Origins needed better encounter design, but the encounter design was even worse in DA2. Combined with the faster combat and greater number of trash mobs, it made it all boring as hell. Unless you're playing on Nightmare, you can really just mash the R button the PC and you're fine.


And I fear as Laidlaw and company likely send it into an even more twitch based approach, that reduces the importance of party control even more. Bleh...

[Mr.House]

For me it was the waves and long cooldowns that bug me the most, but other then that, the combat was enjoyable and fun personally. The wave stuff was handled better in DAO so it's not really the waves that are the issue, it's more of how it's handled.

[KnightofPhoenix]

The combat in the game felt like an annoying chore. Wave after wave situations, that makes it look like Bioware took the game and then added 30% more combat just for the sake of it. Some of the animations and excessive gore were ridiculous (when are people going to learn that excessive gore is ridiculous and not dark? An arrow literally blowing someone up to pieces is hilarious, not dark). Many boss fights were tedious and extremely mechanical. The different enemy types is weakened when assassins have almost as much health as commanders, where they would have been better off as the fragile but precise heavy hitters.

The fundamentals were fine. It's just what's mentionned above that makes the combat an annoying chore. I get even more annoyed because of Hawke's passivity in the story, except for constant slaughter. I felt like I was playing the incredible Hulk at the end. There is probably not a single quest in the game that doesn't involve killing, and killing in waves. I want quests that have no killing in them. Quests like the murder investigation in Kotor in Dantooine where the PC actually uses his brain. What purpose was there for us to slaughter waves of Mabari as we are trying to hook Aveline up with her man? It's pointless and ruined what would have been an awesome side quest.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 11 mai 2011 - 04:40 .

[Zjarcal]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
What purpose was there for us to slaughter waves of Mabari as we are trying to hook Aveline up with her man? It's pointless and ruined what would have been an awesome side quest.

Well the idea there was that you were essentially doing their patrol routine (which usually involves fighting I assume) to make it easy for them to simply relax. So the fighting is not exactly out of place.

That being said, killing mabaris always makes me sad... :crying:

[bleetman]

I think it around the time I noticed there were precious little opponents which couldn't be bested by a combination of goad spam and running in circles.

I don't know. The whole experience came off as fine to me, if a little twitchy. It reminded me of Mass Effect 2's combat, in terms of seeming like everything is running just a little too quickly. I'm so-so about it, on the whole. That my two favourite things about the new combat (the lack of ****ing overwhelm spiders and the 'target the nearest enemy' button) don't really have much to do with the actual fighting style is fairly telling, I suppose.

Modifié par bleetman, 11 mai 2011 - 04:49 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

Zjarcal wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
What purpose was there for us to slaughter waves of Mabari as we are trying to hook Aveline up with her man? It's pointless and ruined what would have been an awesome side quest.

Well the idea there was that you were essentially doing their patrol routine (which usually involves fighting I assume) to make it easy for them to simply relax. So the fighting is not exactly out of place.

So every day, two-three guards are actually able to fight waves and waves of mabari on their own? Like it's a normal occurence?

I find that hard to believe.

It didn't need killing to convey the point. It could have Hawke doing patrol routines without noticing any danger, because I hope patrol routines don't stumble across danger (in the wave load) every single day otherwise they should militarize the whole area.

The fighting was pointless and brought nothing to the plot of the quest.  It's even implausible. You think I would continue playing this game for Aveline, while the beach is apparently infested with hordes of hostile animals? Where lives are actually at stake? Screw that, she can die single for all I care 

[tmp7704]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

What purpose was there for us to slaughter waves of Mabari as we are trying to hook Aveline up with her man? It's pointless and ruined what would have been an awesome side quest.

It's especially silly when you can see them spawn literally out of thin air. I sort of did that route backward at first because i don't use the map quest markers and the entire Coast was pretty much quiet. I was all "oh great, there you go Aveline, have a stroll"... then i start making my way back from post to post and whaddya know, out of sudden everyone qunari and their dog is having a picnic there.

Modifié par tmp7704, 11 mai 2011 - 04:51 .

[bleetman]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

So every day, two-three guards are actually able to fight waves and waves of mabari on their own? Like it's a normal occurence?

And spiders. And tevinter slavers. And... mercenaries? I think I remember mercenaries too. I'm suprised there weren't dragons.

Modifié par bleetman, 11 mai 2011 - 04:53 .

[Zjarcal]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
The fighting was pointless and brought nothing to the plot of the quest.  It's even implausible. You think I would continue playing this game for Aveline, while the beach is apparently infested with hordes of hostile animals? Where lives are actually at stake? Screw that, she can die single for all I care 

But... but... but she must find love!! 

Eh, I get what you're saying. If I recall there was fighting in all three spots that you stop at. Perhaps having only one spot involve fighting would've been more believable, with maybe the other two spots involving extra dialogue with Aveline and Donnic.

[tmp7704]

Pandaman102 wrote...

To be fair, they needed to speed up the animation (two-handed swings were kinda ridiculous) and fix the AI so you couldn't do the "creep forward, shoot one, watch the others ignore it as it runs screaming down your direction" - which is a pretty basic AI behavior in every other game.

You can still do that -- it's easy enough to have only part of enemies come at you if you don't rush in. And on top of it you can break most of the waves as well: just move back couple screens worth of distance, kill whatever comes after you then go back at your leisure and mop up the next wave which is just standing around, no doubt wondering where did the A-Team go.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Zjarcal wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
The fighting was pointless and brought nothing to the plot of the quest.  It's even implausible. You think I would continue playing this game for Aveline, while the beach is apparently infested with hordes of hostile animals? Where lives are actually at stake? Screw that, she can die single for all I care 

But... but... but she must find love!! 

Eh, I get what you're saying. If I recall there was fighting in all three spots that you stop at. Perhaps having only one spot involve fighting would've been more believable, with maybe the other two spots involving extra dialogue with Aveline and Donnic.

No fighting at all.

I just want a quest with no fighting. The Witcher for instance has a quest where all you have to do is buy drinks, invite a friend, go to a party, talk, listen to a song, give flowers to the hostess (potentially spending the night with her) and that's it, and you get exp for that. And that's one of the most memorable sidequests I've ever played in an RPG. Because it showed the protagonist as being something other than a killing machine.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 11 mai 2011 - 05:05 .

[tmp7704]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

I just want a quest with no fighting. The Witcher for instance has a quest where all you have to do is buy drinks, invite a friend, go to a party, talk, listen to a song, give flowers to the hostess (potentially spending the night with her) and that's it, and you get exp for that. And that's one of the most memorable sidequests I've ever played in an RPG. Because it showed the protagonist as being something other than a killing machine.

DA2 did have these -- half of the companion "quests" were like that

[Zjarcal]

Alistairlover94 wrote...

Yeah... 

@KoP

I know, I also love quests like that. In Neverwinter Nights my favorite side quest was a trial where you had to defend a guy who was accused of murder. You had to gather info across town, interview people and then present your case. It was also realy easy to screw up and lose the case. It was memorable and it was indeed the lack of fighting that made it awesome.

Still, I really wasn't bothered by the minor fights during Aveline's quest. Besides, the really good stuff happened at Viscount's Keep and the Hanged Man, where there was no fighting at all.

tmp7704 wrote...
DA2 did have these -- half of the companion "quests" were like that 

But I gather his point is that even those involve some fights in between. Unless you mean the conversations marked as quests?

Modifié par Zjarcal, 11 mai 2011 - 05:12 .

[KnightofPhoenix]

tmp7704 wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

I just want a quest with no fighting. The Witcher for instance has a quest where all you have to do is buy drinks, invite a friend, go to a party, talk, listen to a song, give flowers to the hostess (potentially spending the night with her) and that's it, and you get exp for that. And that's one of the most memorable sidequests I've ever played in an RPG. Because it showed the protagonist as being something other than a killing machine.

DA2 did have these -- half of the companion "quests" were like that

I remember all of them involved killing in some  way or the other. whether in Bartrand's house (coul have been interesting, but instead we get an ethereal golem). Fenris with the Magister. Isabela with Castillon and his right hand. Merril with the demon and then potentially her entire clan. Heck even Anders' plan to blow up the chantry involved fighting when looking for dragon ******.

It's just the gifts that may have prompted cutscenes like that.

EDIT: convos are not sidequests. Besides, in the Witcher, it was not a one on one. It was a group thing.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 11 mai 2011 - 05:13 .