55 réponses à ce sujet

[Wolff Laarcen]

RampantBeaver wrote...
Seriously im practically throwing a house at the guy!

Another
example is my rogue character with 30+ dex is perhaps 2 metres away
from a chap standing in a door way. He draws his bow.... HE SHOOTS....
HE SCO.... hits the ceiling... I could have just as simply stabbed him
with the arrow!

lol, i feel your pain.  tba i didn't start seeing consistant accuracy with my rogue archer until about 50+ DEX.

sugasugaki wrote...
My biggest annoyance is when the guy is frozen stiff and you miss. How can you miss when the guy is completely still? Fail.

This x10.  Any attack vs an immobilized target should be an instant crit or at the very least 100% to hit.

[Blessed Silence]

Well I can tell you no one missed here ... ouch.

[RampantBeaver]

marshalleck wrote...

yeah wtf is this an rpg or something

We are all aware that this is indeed an RPG and there is going to be dice rolling to save us from the constant button bashing of a game like oblivion, which i am glad for. But how would you feel if you were playing mass effect and upon shooting someone square in the chest the word 'MISS' just shot up. The MA audience wouldn't consider it acceptable so why is it so in DA?

[rikkles]

Yep I agree that the armor should play a more important role, and the defense vs. attack should be changed. A guy wearing 2 tons of armor should have a **** defense, which isn't the case right now.



"Oh look, it's Iron Man doing Spiderman moves!"

[Shadow_Viper]

IFSW

[menasure]

just check your statistics because overall you do not miss that much ... although it's pretty blatant to miss a frozen single opponent block of ice ... makes me wonder whether my fighter is drunk or not at such times really.

[JessicaGlenn]

I take it some people have nothing else to complain about that they have to whine about such trivialities?

[Velz]

bottom line is that you SHOULD be missing very infrequently. The idea of a "miss" in these games is an archaic rule passed down from tabletop PnP. It doesn't have to stick around, yet developers are too blind to see how annoying misses are and tone them down drastically in favor of just beefing up armor, and have the armor itself have a threshold before it breaks where you then do more damage. That is how combat in RPG's should develop from here on out. Screw this miss crap. I should only be missing heavily vs the smallest and most nimble of opponents. I should NEVER miss while attacking a dragon for god's sake.

[Chromie]

Damar Stiehl wrote...

I have to say I get a bit hot under the collar when I manage to MISS a frozen-solid enemy with a melee attack. My grandmother could've landed a hit, and she's dead!

Really? That's quite a feat for a dead person.

[RampantBeaver]

JessicaGlenn wrote...

I take it some people have nothing else to complain about that they have to whine about such trivialities?

You're more or less right. I don't have much else to complain about. I love every other aspect of the game.

However i do not see this as trivial. Fights make up 50% of the game and in my experience my apparent grey warden 'hero's', out to save Ferelden, are missing targets all the time!

It happens most frequently in trying situations. Like fighting a Revenant for example. I've seen Alistar miss him 5 times in a row. How can anyone not consider this lame? Ok so you may not feel as strongly about it as I but surely you can see that the idea of it is moronic? Its frustrating and it makes me feel cheated.

To me it ruins the fighting experience. There is no place for it in a modern RPG. It can be so easily negated with more flashy visuals for dodging or parrying.

[0LunarEclipse0]

RampantBeaver wrote...

INMATEofARKHAM wrote...

   

Eurypterid wrote...

I just chalk it up to a similar thing as the D&D games (NWN, NWN2). Your character stumbled, was jostled, whiffed, etc.. Sucks to have an animation that makes you think you hit, but I don't find it all that annoying.

Same here. I've spent too many years at the tabletop (seeing the underlining system at work and only the underlining system, minus imagination of course) to get carried away by the on screen animation.

Yes i understand your not gona be too miffed about it but its not a tabletop game. Its a modern day, action adventure, rpg where we should be going forward with animations not two steps back.

I am just assuming that for everyone who isn't fluent with the D&D ruleset its seen as highly frustrating.

I thought we were at an age where CG did the imagining for us?

SORRY WRONG
This is NOT an action adventure rpg. This a tactical based, rpg using a dice rolling system. Nothing action about it your hits are not determined by you, but by your build and a roll of the dice. This may not be a table top game but that is where it takes it cue from. I mean KOTOR openly told you that you had to make a DC of whatever number. Clearly you want an actual action rpg if you don`t want to imagine. As with past games (Baulders Gate and many others) the strength lies in the dice rolls and the story telling. I play for deep story and for being a stat building, mechanics abusing, lunatic. I know the majority of Bioware fans agree with me.

[SheffSteel]

Against a heavily armoured opponent, it should be easy to hit but difficult to do damage. This should be true of all rules systems where armour absorbs damage, as opposed to systems using THAC0 or similar principles, where it is harder to hit people wearing heavier armour but if you do hit the amount of damage is independant of the armour rating.



Perhaps Bioware just didn't have the courage of their convictions when implementing the rules... or perhaps they felt that players would be upset and frustrated seeing lots of floating zeroes when fighting armoured foes.

[PhroXenGold]

Definately support this. Hate the fact that I can swing a sword at someone standing a foot away from me doing nothing, clearly hit them, yet it says "miss".

Reminds me of something in City of Heroes. As with many RPGs, the opponent dodging affected your chance to hit, as did some "armours" (such as Ice and Forcefields) which were considered to deflect blows causing them to do no damage. Originally, they were all treated as "misses". Then, at some point, they changed the combat text so it actually said why you failed to hurt the foe. If you were just being incompetant (or were debuffed to hell), it said "miss". If the opponent dodged, it said so. If their armour deflected the blow, it said so. In terms of gmaeplay, it made no difference - all three things worked exactly the same, but from an immersion/RP sense, it was great.

Even if new animations are too much, then improving the combat text in this way would be a good start.

Modifié par PhroXenGold, 24 novembre 2009 - 04:02 .

[RampantBeaver]

0LunarEclipse0 wrote...
SORRY WRONG
This is NOT an action adventure rpg. This a tactical based, rpg using a dice rolling system. Nothing action about it your hits are not determined by you, but by your build and a roll of the dice. This may not be a table top game but that is where it takes it cue from. I mean KOTOR openly told you that you had to make a DC of whatever number. Clearly you want an actual action rpg if you don`t want to imagine. As with past games (Baulders Gate and many others) the strength lies in the dice rolls and the story telling. I play for deep story and for being a stat building, mechanics abusing, lunatic. I know the majority of Bioware fans agree with me.

It has action, it has adventure, its an rpg, thats all i ment by that. I've already acknowledged it uses a D&D ruleset and that dice rolling is ever present.

All im saying is its rediculous seeing your characters miss as much as they do. If this means moving further away from the D&D rules then so be it. As i said adding something else like a glancing hit would be more believable and wider accepted amongst the majority of gamers.

I buy bioware games because imo they make the best rpg's out there for some of the reasons you stated i.e. deep story. I also want to enjoy the action side of things (by this i mean the combat) and in this case i have this one gripe. Your obvioulsy fine imagining your character missing the enemy several times whilst standing next to them or whilst they are frozen, paralysed, or incapable of moving. I on the other hand am not.

[RampantBeaver]

PhroXenGold wrote...

Definately support this. Hate the fact that I can swing a sword at someone standing a foot away from me doing nothing, clearly hit them, yet it says "miss".

Reminds me of something in City of Heroes. As with many RPGs, the opponent dodging affected your chance to hit, as did some "armours" (such as Ice and Forcefields) which were considered to deflect blows causing them to do no damage. Originally, they were all treated as "misses". Then, at some point, they changed the combat text so it actually said why you failed to hurt the foe. If you were just being incompetant (or were debuffed to hell), it said "miss". If the opponent dodged, it said so. If their armour deflected the blow, it said so. In terms of gmaeplay, it made no difference - all three things worked exactly the same, but from an immersion/RP sense, it was great.

Even if new animations are too much, then improving the combat text in this way would be a good start.

^^^ agree

[Rainen89]

I missed hitting a barricade I was right next to, true story.

[Naxarrath]

Have to say i have had my share of misses and frustration, using 2-hand maxed out skills with precision mode always every fight i see myself having 5 miss in a row including that costly critical strike that just missed a guy while he was knocked down, if i wouldn't know better i would say my character is bugged or something.

[Kaosgirl]

rikkles wrote...

Yep I agree that the armor should play a more important role, and the defense vs. attack should be changed. A guy wearing 2 tons of armor should have a **** defense, which isn't the case right now.

"Oh look, it's Iron Man doing Spiderman moves!"

From what I've heard, it's not that implausible.  Hearsay, I know, but when a similar topic came up on the D&D newsgroup we were bluntly informed by the local medieval arms and armour expert  of modern day recreationists doing acrobatics in full plate.  Apparently, *quality* armor worn by someone who's practiced in it has very little impact on one's mobility - the weight just takes a bit more strength to manage, and fatigues you a bit faster.

Yes, the animation showing a hit when the RNG shows a 'miss' is obnoxious.  We expect better because we've seen better.  But overall, IMO it's a trivial nuisance that hardly bears more than a casual mention.

[thegreateski]

Yeah...those dice rolls are a pain ain't they?

[Eshme]

Reminds me of KOTOR, where you swing the lightsabers like a god, and miss the box you are trying to open with your magical moves. Its just as bad as if you didnt miss lol.

I think its trivial in this environment, its good enough i guess.

[F-C]

the only reason i dont complain about this much is because it works both ways.



i would be rather annoyed about missing stunned enemies, but when i get stunned they still miss me too, so its relatively even.

[thegreateski]

*Romarix fires his long bow at the high dragon*
*Romarix has missed*
Oghren: ARE YOU !@$#$ING DRUNK?!

[Scars Unseen]

It's because pop up text saying "miss" is less annoying than pop up text saying "you lunge in and stab swiftly with your sword, the sun gleaming brightly off your polished blade, however your cunning foe twists his monstrous body and the tip of your blade glances off of his hardened carapace."

Modifié par Scars Unseen, 25 novembre 2009 - 01:32 .

[Slayer D]

Considering the limitations on animations in modern day games and the rate of combat. You are going to have to sacrifice something. In order for all misses to be animated, one of 3 things need to happen:

1) The combat speed will need to be brought WAY down so they animations don't get skipped for the sake of others.

2) Combat becomes turn based so all of the animations can be played when it happens
or...
3) You skip the attack animations and only show the enemy dodging. But then you'll have damage numbers popping off of your head and have no idea why.


Some day we'll have dodge/attack animations combined in fast paced real time combat. Right now, if you're meleeing something, you'll pretty much in an attack animation 99% of the time. Though, I have seen a few parries thrown in now and then with slower weapons. And arrows DO miss. They clearly aren't hitting the target visually, and it says miss.

Modifié par Slayer D, 25 novembre 2009 - 01:39 .

[ladydesire]

RampantBeaver wrote...

I buy bioware games because imo they make the best rpg's out there for some of the reasons you stated i.e. deep story. I also want to enjoy the action side of things (by this i mean the combat) and in this case i have this one gripe. Your obvioulsy fine imagining your character missing the enemy several times whilst standing next to them or whilst they are frozen, paralysed, or incapable of moving. I on the other hand am not.

One thing that needs to be considered is how many animations need to be made to show all possibilities; these take time to make and might also leave you open to attacks that the rules say shouldn't happen (the "dance of death" from NWN, for example).