9 réponses à ce sujet

[Rolenka]

I had all sorts of tactics for Aveline to use her special abilities at opportune times, but decided what I really needed her to do was tank, and just having her taunt when someone was being attacked was not cutting it. She kept blowing her taunts on the wrong end of the battlefield.

• Enemy: Attacking Merrill -- Jump to: 8
• Enemy: Attacking Hawke -- Jump to: 8
• Enemy: Attacking Varric -- Jump to: 8
• Enemy: Attacking Merrill -- Attack
• Enemy: Attacking Hawke -- Attack
• Enemy: Attacking Varric -- Attack
• Enemy: Nearest -- Attack
• Enemy: Short Range -- Taunt

7 prevents her from getting to 8 when no allies are being attacked. She'll just continue auto-attacking.

4, 5, and 6 make sure she walks into range. 8 obviously makes sure the enemy is in Taunt range.

This could be so much simpler if we had an "Enemy: Attacking Ally: Any," but oh well.

Modifié par Rolenka, 10 mai 2011 - 05:10 .

[AreleX]

Try simply:

Self: Surrounded by at least three enemies - Taunt
Enemy: Attacking (squishy here) - Attack

Check SuicidalBaby's Advanced Tactics guide for advice on how tactics work/the best way to set them up, or his/my class guides, to see some solid builds to get the most out of your Aveline. Using your Fenris/Aveline as just a damage sponge is a waste, since they're both capable of doing so much more with the right build/tactics.

Modifié par AreleX, 10 mai 2011 - 09:03 .

[SuicidalBaby]

Your companions are going to be constantly under attack, leaving you with 4 wasted tactics.
Behavior AI already attacks nearest. But I do like where your head is at, you get that mechanic, just doesnt apply here.
Taunt may be used at any moment 1 enemy is near, missing others.
Enemy: Attacking X is interpreted as any action attempted, even if the target is immobilized.
Also: it's being ignored because of the jump tactic.

If any thing, readressing the ability use should be your focus.

self: hp <25%: use Health Poultice
self: stamina <10%: Second Wind
ally: mana/stamina <25%: Rally
self: hp <75%: activate Shield Defense
enemy: target at short range: Cleave
self: surrounded by 4 enemies: Taunt
enemy: rank: Elite or higher: Shield Bash
self: surrounded by 3 enemies: use current condition for next tactic
enemy: rank: Normal or higher: Shield Bash
enemy: Boss or higher: Taunt
enemy: DISORIENTED: Scatter
self: stamina <25%: Bolster
self: stamina <50%: activate Might/Control
enemy: Boss or higher: skip tactics
self: hp: >90%: deactivate: Shield Defence
self: at least 1 enemey is alive: skip tactics
self: any: deactivate: Shield Defense
self: any: deactivate: Might/Control

this paticular set is from the companions section in the compendium. Fully functioning, hands free for the most part. Certain encounters demand control; i.e. Dragons.

Planning your entire build in reaction to a constant event will only have you running in circles.

btw, jump goes to the designated number minus 1

edit: Are: flip that or youll never taunt

Modifié par SuicidialBaby, 10 mai 2011 - 07:46 .

[SuicidalBaby]

To clarify:

1. Enemy: Attacking Merrill -- Jump to: 8
2. Enemy: Attacking Hawke -- Jump to: 8
3. Enemy: Attacking Varric -- Jump to: 8
4. Enemy: Attacking Merrill -- Attack
5. Enemy: Attacking Hawke -- Attack
6. Enemy: Attacking Varric -- Attack
7. Enemy: Nearest -- Attack
8. Enemy: Short Range -- Taunt

If jump to tactic worked as intended:
tactics 4-7 are dead as you are constantly jumping past them.

As it is you just spent 8 tactics to attack nearest forever.

[Lumikki]

Aveline:

1. Enemy: Short Range: taunt
2. Self: Mana or stamina < 50% : Bolster
3. Enemy: Rank Elite or higher: Shield Bash
4. Enemy: Clustered at leat five enemies: Attack
5. Enemy: Clustered at least four enemies: Attack
6. Enemy: Clustered at least three enemies: Attack
7. Enemy: Clustered at least two enemies: Attack
8. Enemy: Nearest visible: Attack (one enemy)

Varric:
1. Self: been attacked by melee: Evade
2. Self: been attacked by melee: Armistice
3. Hawke: Been attacked by melee: Armistice
4. Merrill: been attacked by melee: Armistice

Base idea is that Aveline taunts all the time when there is enemies near. Now, Avelines attack lines are there as priority as where to go find enemies. This Avelines movement to enemy happens between taunts. Point is take care elite first, if there is one. Then after that, try to find where is most enemies. There is no point to put Aveline run between companions. Avelines job is taunt as many enemies as she can.  Enemies should follow Aveline even if she moves, because taunt. Also Aveline doesn't move if there is enough enemies around her. Bolster is there to make sure Aveline allways have enough stamina to taunt. If you want stagger your enemies later and you have enough tactics lines, you can add same line as the attack one, before all attacks with example shield bash.

Varric lines are there to show how you companion "Varric" can reduse the enemy aggro. Also as most the time other companions are range attackers, they can togather take care each others attackers, range or melee, by using they own range attacks and controls.

Modifié par Lumikki, 10 mai 2011 - 12:10 .

[Rolenka]

SuicidialBaby wrote...

To clarify:

1. Enemy: Attacking Merrill -- Jump to: 8
2. Enemy: Attacking Hawke -- Jump to: 8
3. Enemy: Attacking Varric -- Jump to: 8
4. Enemy: Attacking Merrill -- Attack
5. Enemy: Attacking Hawke -- Attack
6. Enemy: Attacking Varric -- Attack
7. Enemy: Nearest -- Attack
8. Enemy: Short Range -- Taunt

If jump to tactic worked as intended:
tactics 4-7 are dead as you are constantly jumping past them.

As it is you just spent 8 tactics to attack nearest forever.

Oh, I see what you are saying. What about this? 

1. Enemy: Attacking Merrill -- Jump to: 5
2. Enemy: Attacking Hawke -- Jump to: 5
3. Enemy: Attacking Varric -- Jump to: 5
4. Enemy: Nearest -- Attack
5. Enemy: Short Range -- Taunt
6. Enemy: Attacking Merrill -- Attack

7. Enemy: Attacking Hawke -- Attack

8. Enemy: Attacking Varric -- Attack

What I'm not sure about is if tactic 5 would check for ANY enemy in short range, or if it would retain the target from tactics 1, 2 or 3 and check range against that.

If it is the former, she would Taunt, run over, attack and Taunt again once the cooldown was up. Which wouldn't be so awful, but not idea either.

AreleX wrote...

Try simply:

Enemy: Attacking (squishy here) - Attack
Self: Surrounded by at least three enemies - Taunt

With this, she would only Taunt if no enemies are attacking the squishy, which is the opposite of what we want.

Lumikki wrote...

Base
idea is that Aveline taunts all the time when there is enemies near.
Now, Avelines attack lines are there as priority as where to go find
enemies. This Avelines movement to enemy happens between taunts. Point
is take care elite first, if there is one. Then after that, try to find
where is most enemies. There is no point to put Aveline run between
companions. Avelines job is taunt as many enemies as she can.  Enemies
should follow Aveline even if she moves, because taunt. Also Aveline
doesn't move if there is enough enemies around her. Bolster is there to
make sure Aveline allways have enough stamina to taunt. If you want
stagger your enemies later and you have enough tactics lines, you can
add same line as the attack one, before all attacks with example shield
bash.

Varric lines are there to show how you companion "Varric"
can reduse the enemy aggro. Also as most the time other companions are
range attackers, they can togather take care each others attackers,
range or melee, by using they own range attacks and controls.

If Aveline taunts every time it comes off CD, she is going to run out of stamina fairly quickly.  Though I'm sure Bolster helps a lot, she just hasn't gotten it yet in my game. But shouldn't it be used if stamina is < 100%? As I recall the gain isn't very much and the cooldown is pretty short, so you want to use it early and often.

And yeah, that Rogue tree is awesome for controlling agro. But again, he doesn't have it yet in my game. I wanted to get all the cross-class combo abilities first, just, well, because.

Yeah, the other squishies can focus fire for one another, and usually that works OK. It really falls apart though if more than one of them are being attacked at the same time.

I don't get why you wouldn't want Aveline chasing down enemies she doesn't have agro on. I don't know if you've ever played an MMO, but a tank who says "Hey, at least I've got most of them!" isn't going to find very many groups in the future. I wish we still had Threaten from DA:O, but I guess stuns can help just as well now.

[SuicidalBaby]

First off: you need to understand that "Jump to tactic" is bugged.  It will jump to the number specified minus 1.
If you say jump to tactic 15, it goes to 14. 

You should trust a rogue with armitice and a set for back-to-back with invisible friend allowing for it to take care of itself and any squishy.  This can be improved with Goad to give you what results in being a 2nd taunt.

1: Hawke: being attacked by melee or ranged: jump to 4
2: Anders: being attacked by melee or ranged: use current condition for next tactic
3: Aveline: any: Goad - Actual jump destination - Jump to tactic is bugged, it goes 1 less
4:

The 2 mages could easily pick up Stonefist/petrify/horror/misdirection hex. I personally do not give my ranged characters any attack scripts as they already attack nearest once the current target is dead. They are most likely near each other as I dont used ranged behavior either, aggresive behavior increases dps IMO as they dont move except to get visual on a target. It has a side effect of forcing them to take care of each other naturally. It also allows allies under HOLD to act normally and not freeze up because of ranged behavior.

If you are running 2 melee, Battle Synergy is quite effective, but only upgraded to the threat portion.

The tactics I posted eariler work very well for almost any group set up.

But to your question:
//------------------------------------------------------------\\\\
1. Enemy: Attacking Merrill -- Jump to: 5---\\\\
2. Enemy: Attacking Hawke -- Jump to: 5-- = **
3. Enemy: Attacking Varric -- Jump to: 5---//
\\\\------------------------------------------------------------//
**ally: being attacked by melee or ranged: use current condition for next tactic
enemy: target at short range: taunt

would reduce the tactic to 2 lines instead of 4, but be aware the target at short range could be another target entirely, same thing results with what you intended for your jump.

4. Enemy: Nearest -- Attack = naturally occuring behavior in AI script under aggresive - also where your jump would land
5. Enemy: Short Range -- Taunt
6. Enemy: Attacking Merrill -- Attack-----\\\\
7. Enemy: Attacking Hawke -- Attack----- = should be at the end of your set up
8. Enemy: Attacking Varric -- Attack-----//

I believe, "self: surrounded by X enemies: tuant" forces a better situation as it guarentees a minimum number of enemies taunted.  Your attack priority set would force the situation you're looking for when mixed with Battle synergy or the self surrounded by x enemies condition.

Modifié par SuicidialBaby, 10 mai 2011 - 07:43 .

[Rolenka]

Thanks, that's very helpful. You understand why I have attack nearest though, right? It's so she never gets to Enemy: Short Range -- Taunt unless she is jumped there. I don't need her Taunting if she has everyone attacking her.

[AreleX]

mistake, fixed, need more coffee

[SuicidalBaby]

Rolenka wrote...

Thanks, that's very helpful. You understand why I have attack nearest though, right? It's so she never gets to Enemy: Short Range -- Taunt unless she is jumped there. I don't need her Taunting if she has everyone attacking her.

Yeah, I get it, but the thing is that is such a rare event that even when she is surrounded those extra tactics are working to eliminate targets rather than focus on whose doing what to whom.  Its proactive rather than reactive. 
Aggression is king in this format.

But styles vary and such is life.  Give it a chance at least.

Modifié par SuicidialBaby, 10 mai 2011 - 10:26 .