534 réponses à ce sujet

[IanPolaris]

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...
Please note the world I bolded for easy reference.  I bolded it because you so-conveniently left of this little bit.  Frankly given your reaction and some others, I don't THINK I am off base either.  Far better to sacrifice a little verisilitude if it spares you from getting yelled at by a very vocal minority with a lot of political connections.
If so, it wouldn't be the first time.
-Polaris

See, I don't have to twist this at all.  We were always talking about your opinion here, your little conspiracy theory.  The fact that it's what you "think" was definitely implied.

Because it sure as hell isn't a fact.

You deliberately left off the qualifying sentence that CLEARLY identified my quote as opinion rather than 'fact' as you presented it.

That's dishonest.

-Polaris

[Paeyne]

General_Minus wrote...

I also don't believe the majority of everyone in this board is gay, lesbian or bi. That would be far fetched.  

Would believe a majority just don't give a damn about a bunch of imaginary peoples' sex life?

[IanPolaris]

HTTP 404 wrote...

kirkwall is the San Francisco of Thedas and Dragon Age is the late 60s.

You're completely correct.  How could I possibly have missed the resemblance?!

-Polaris

[MyKingdomCold]

If people are getting so worked up about the sexuality of characters in a game, they need something else to occupy their time.

[Brockololly]

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
What I would dislike however is backtracking certain characters and making them bi for no reason. Like say Morrigan.

I've seen plenty of examples of women who would define themselves as straight falling for a woman, even if it didn't work out in the end.

I think all of you people are putting way too much importance on sexuality as a solid, unchangeable thing.  It's not.  It's fluid and there are no definites or concrete rules.
And the idea that it is a defining personality trait is downright silly.  How would Morrigan have been different if she slept with a female Warden?

Eh....I like my NPCs more defined by BioWare and not Hawke-sexual like Merrill and Fenris. Isabela I don't mind as she was set up as Bi from the start. Anders...well, in Awakening he shows no inclination towards men at all, while flirting with Velanna and expressing his desire to settle down with a pretty lady and so forth. Sure, he could have been bi or whatever, but its about keeping expectations in check from the perspective of the player given what they've been able to see in the game thus far.

As for Morrigan or even Alistair as the token heterosexuals in DA however, its said over and over in Origins how Morrigan has a past with other men, how she hates Leliana leering at her boobs and so forth. Or how a big part of Alistair as a character is the fact that he's a virgin and you have Morrigan and Oghren banter about how they think he could be gay, but no, he's just an awkward virgin.One's sexuality is part of who you are and having it strongly defined for the NPC's makes them better characters, IMO. So given what we know of Morrigan or Alistair, it would  be pretty stupid to have them come back as bisexuals in some future game- that doesn't at all mesh with what we've been presented of them personality/sexuality wise thus far.

Sexuality doesn't have to be a static thing, sure. But quite frankly, I don't think how they handled Anders's bisexuality in DA2 was done very well at all- you had little to no hint of it in Awakening and then just *BAM* he's bisexual in DA2. I guess that goes with Anders' crappy characterization 180 overall though- he may as well be a different character entirely. It would be even worse for somebody like Morrigan or Alistair.


So I'd much prefer to have straight up heterosexual, bisexual and homosexual NPCs as opposed to the DA2's wishy washy approach. In DA2 the "everybody's bi...sort of" approach came across as pandering to me. I like it in games when certain things are just shut down to the PC- you can't romance Samara in ME2 or Aveline in DA2 based on how they're defined as characters. Same as a female Warden can't romance Morrigan or a male Warden romance Alistair- having more defined NPCs can allow the player to develop a more defined PC in that sense that the game is giving you boundaries. So its fine if an NPC is bi, hetero or homosexual, but don't just dither around with it; have one's sexuality be a meaningful part of who they are and not just bow to the whims of the PC.

Modifié par Brockololly, 10 mai 2011 - 03:21 .

[tmp7704]

Sarcastic Tasha wrote...

I can understand if people think its unrealistic but I say realism sucks. I'd rather lose some immersion so I get a bit more choice.

The catch with that is, the loss of immersion can easily neutralize the very point of "game romance" in the first place, and that can render the choices meaningless (and consequently, the fact there's bit more of a choice, null)

[AngryFrozenWater]

IanPolaris wrote...

AngryFrozenWater wrote...

I am not one of Mr Gaider's greatest fans. We do have some collisions from time to time so to speak. But that doesn't mean he is always wrong. There's nothing to be afraid of. It's an option you have in the game. You aren't forced to use it, nor will an army of bi-sexuals hunt you down when you refuse. And last time I checked most RPG fans liked the idea of choice in their games. So I can't see the problem.

*Le Sigh*  Did you miss the part where I said it was only an annoyance.  A big reason it's only an annoyance is for this very reason.  I CAN squint and pretend it doesn't exist if I want to (or accept a bi relationshiop if I want that).  However, by using virtually all of the same romances and seeminly having the NPC LIs adjust their sexuality to your character's gender DOES feel contrived and plastic...which is really the point.

As for DG, it wasn't his finest hour because he seemed to paint ALL critics of the universal Bi-sexual LIs as homophobes and that simply isn't true.  In fact, it's WRONG.

-Polaris

Ah. So it is only a minor annoyance. Good. I thought you were going to make it a problem, when all you only need to do is gracefully reject the invitation.

I think it is good that BW acknowledges the existence of non-heteros among its fans and merely gives them fun romances that they are better immersed with. Probably makes a buck in the process as well. I would call that meaninful marketing. Ghehe.

[Mystranna Kelteel]

IanPolaris wrote...
You deliberately left off the qualifying sentence that CLEARLY identified my quote as opinion rather than 'fact' as you presented it.
That's dishonest.
-Polaris

Now you're splitting hairs and making poor assumptions.

No, I didn't leave it off "deliberately".  We were always talking about what you said.  We all know that your conspiracy theory isn't a fact.

I was always laughing at your idea and your phrasing of it.  Of course it's your opinion.  If I had thought you believed it was a fact then I would have mocked you far worse than I have.

[Mystranna Kelteel]

DuckSoup wrote...

"You people"?

Try not to lump us all together, Mystranna. <_<

EDIT:  I don't give a monkeys about this whole argument. It doesn't effect my life in any way.

I was lumping specific people into that phrase, not everyone.  I didn't feel like going through every post and writing every individual name to which I thought the statement applied.

[wildannie]

I don't really see them as all bi within an individual playthrough.

MHawke playthrough -
Anders - Gay
Merrill - straight
Isabella - bi
Fenris - bi

FHawke playthrough

Anders - bi
Merrill - gay
Isabella - bi
Fenris - straight

I've not read all this thread but I'm always surprised that people are so affronted by Anders being gay because he was straight in Awakenings... I *always* thought he might be gay...more so in awakenings than in DA2 even.

[LiquidGrape]

Brockololly wrote...

Anders...well, in Awakening he shows no inclination towards men at all...

*Coughs once more*

[IanPolaris]

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...
You deliberately left off the qualifying sentence that CLEARLY identified my quote as opinion rather than 'fact' as you presented it.
That's dishonest.
-Polaris

Now you're splitting hairs and making poor assumptions.

No, I didn't leave it off "deliberately".  We were always talking about what you said.  We all know that your conspiracy theory isn't a fact.

I was always laughing at your idea and your phrasing of it.  Of course it's your opinion.  If I had thought you believed it was a fact then I would have mocked you far worse than I have.

You saw the qualifying sentence in my post and didn't include it.  You presented what I clearly said was an opinion of what MIGHT be a reason as a personal belief of what did happen.

That is dishonest.  No two ways around it.

As for what I think MIGHT have happened, I don't think leaders of the GBLT did anything directly to Bioware.  I think the DA2 team when it came to romances tried to decide which NPCs would be LIs and under what conditions.  When it would have turned out that the GBLT player would have had only one choice, the Devs said, "We won't hear the end of it if we restrict it that much"

Dev2: "Why not make all the LIs Hawke-sexual, that way everyone is happy"

Dev Unison: BRILLIANT

In short, I think the potential for problems and protests drove BW to make the decisions they did....direct lobbying was not needed.

-Polaris

[Siansonea]

Just as a point of order, anything that "alienates the straight gamer crowd" is a GOOD thing, in my opinion. As far as I'm concerned, all groups of entitled, intolerant children should be alienated as often as possible.

That said, I am an ancient hetero woman, who is heartily sick of little boys freaking out over Teh Gayz.

[jlb524]

IanPolaris wrote...

To a large degree I think that's exactly what happened.  Bioware decided to hand an olive branch to the GBLT community because they knew they'd whine and complain if they didn't.  You can joke all you want, but companies are genuinely afraid of some "politically correct" groups and the GBLT activists are high on that list.

-Polaris

Have you ever played Mass Effect?

This is the same company we are talking about here.

[IanPolaris]

wildannie wrote...

I don't really see them as all bi within an individual playthrough.

MHawke playthrough -
Anders - Gay
Merrill - straight
Isabella - bi
Fenris - bi

FHawke playthrough

Anders - bi
Merrill - gay
Isabella - bi
Fenris - straight

I've not read all this thread but I'm always surprised that people are so affronted by Anders being gay because he was straight in Awakenings... I *always* thought he might be gay...more so in awakenings than in DA2 even.

This is what I mean by "Hawke-Sexual" (Merrill in particular).  Merrill's sexuality should not depend on what gender Hawke is.

-Polaris

[IanPolaris]

jlb524 wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

To a large degree I think that's exactly what happened.  Bioware decided to hand an olive branch to the GBLT community because they knew they'd whine and complain if they didn't.  You can joke all you want, but companies are genuinely afraid of some "politically correct" groups and the GBLT activists are high on that list.

-Polaris

Have you ever played Mass Effect?

This is the same company we are talking about here.

I also know the grief that Bioware got from ME1 too.  I ALSO know that EA runs Bioware these days which was not true for ME1.  I also note that the raciness of the romances has been toned down in both ME2 (compared with ME1) and DA2 comparied with DA1 (and it's not like dry-humping in underwear was all that erotic).

-Polaris

[Brockololly]

LiquidGrape wrote...

Brockololly wrote...

Anders...well, in Awakening he shows no inclination towards men at all...

*Coughs once more*

But thats the thing- if you're looking at Anders as bi given DA2, sure, that line comes across as possibly being flirty, not much but maybe. But from Awakening, I don't see that as anything more than Anders being a bit mocking and jocular to contrast with how stoic and to the point Nathaniel is. There is far more evidence of Anders only taking romantic interest in women in Awakening than ever being interested in men.

[Mystranna Kelteel]

IanPolaris wrote...
As for what I think MIGHT have happened, I don't think leaders of the GBLT did anything directly to Bioware.  I think the DA2 team when it came to romances tried to decide which NPCs would be LIs and under what conditions.  When it would have turned out that the GBLT player would have had only one choice, the Devs said, "We won't hear the end of it if we restrict it that much"
Dev2: "Why not make all the LIs Hawke-sexual, that way everyone is happy"
Dev Unison: BRILLIANT
In short, I think the potential for problems and protests drove BW to make the decisions they did....direct lobbying was not needed.
-Polaris

That's exactly what I thought you meant.

And that's what I find hilarious.  I mean that in the least offensive way possible, but, it is; it's hilarious.

[Russalka]

I did not see much complaining about there being only two bisexual love interests in Origins. Why would there suddenly be a fear of riots with Dragon Age 2, if everyone was expecting there to be two again?

[Sarcastic Tasha]

tmp7704 wrote...

Sarcastic Tasha wrote...

I can understand if people think its unrealistic but I say realism sucks. I'd rather lose some immersion so I get a bit more choice.

The catch with that is, the loss of immersion can easily neutralize the very point of "game romance" in the first place, and that can render the choices meaningless (and consequently, the fact there's bit more of a choice, null)

I think other things made me lose immersion more than the romance options. For one thing I didn't even realise that all four companions were romance options for either gender until I read it on the internet after playing. I new there was an option to flirt with everyone but there was also an option to flirt with Aveline and she's not romancable for anyone.

[jwalker]

This thread again ?

[IanPolaris]

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...
As for what I think MIGHT have happened, I don't think leaders of the GBLT did anything directly to Bioware.  I think the DA2 team when it came to romances tried to decide which NPCs would be LIs and under what conditions.  When it would have turned out that the GBLT player would have had only one choice, the Devs said, "We won't hear the end of it if we restrict it that much"
Dev2: "Why not make all the LIs Hawke-sexual, that way everyone is happy"
Dev Unison: BRILLIANT
In short, I think the potential for problems and protests drove BW to make the decisions they did....direct lobbying was not needed.
-Polaris

That's exactly what I thought you meant.

And that's what I find hilarious.  I mean that in the least offensive way possible, but, it is; it's hilarious.

Why?  It happens everyday.  Companies like political protesters about as much as they like negative balance sheets.  In fact most companies (that I know of anyway...and I know quite a few being a shareholder in hundreds) will go to great legths to appease activist groups (Peta is a good example) just to avoid the bad publicity.

That's the way the world is.

-Polaris

[jlb524]

IanPolaris wrote...


This is what I mean by "Hawke-Sexual" (Merrill in particular).  Merrill's sexuality should not depend on what gender Hawke is.

-Polaris

No, they are all bisexual.  If an individual wants to believe some of them are gay/straight in their pt, that's fine, but canonically they are bisexual.

That's no different from me pretending that Leliana is gay and Morrigan is bisexual (with the help of a mod) in my game, though canonically they are bisexual and straight, respectively.