534 réponses à ce sujet

[Sherbet Lemon]

Haexpane wrote...

LiquidGrape wrote...
 

So you would reduce literary criticism to:

"i read about it online lol"

I smell troll.

Let me try and lighten your heavy handed thread pounding.  DA2 is NOT A BOOK, the twilight movies are NOT BOOKS. This is not a thread about "literary criticism" .  

Does your high horse have armor?

Except "criticism" and "analysis" are terms not only applicable to books.  Films are criticized and analyzed, as are the many forms of visual art. 

The definition of literature (you know, the "literary" part of "literary" criticism) is evolving and changing.  So yes, some critics and scholars are beginning to consider the prospect that video games should be considered a form of literature.

But then again in your eyes reading about something online is similar to actually understanding the phenomenon on its own merit.  I weep for the future if your brand of critical thinking becomes common place.  Just sayin'

[Gotholhorakh]

Siansonea II wrote...

You know, Bi romances don't just benefit "LGBT people". The rest of us might actually role play as someone other than ourselves. I know, wacky concept for a role-playing game.

Grasping for the topic here: this is exactly how I view it - my character is invention and is very rarely similar to me, and part of the fun of an RPG is that it's packed to the rafters with choice.

I just can't relate to arguing for the removal of such choices, even if those choices weren't my bag and even if I would prefer that with stuff like sexuality I have to go actively seeking it.

To be fair BioWare have previously been very good at getting this sort of thing right, and I see opening up of options (if they are done well, golden rule) as a Good Thing.

Modifié par Gotholhorakh, 10 mai 2011 - 08:33 .

[jlb524]

Gotholhorakh wrote...

You understand that I used the word "posit" mockingly in the face of pompous attempts to treat it as some assertion of fact, right?

Well, put "posit" in quotes next time, if you are using the term mockinly.

Regardless, someone was asked to explain and justify their, let's call it an, opinion on the Twilight/DA2 comparison and they've yet to do that.

[General_Minus]

Siansonea II wrote...

General_Minus wrote...

I hope in DA3 they get rid of all Bi romance and put back exclusive straight romances.

Let the LGBT people speak for themselves.

You know, Bi romances don't just benefit "LGBT people". The rest of us might actually role play as someone other than ourselves. I know, wacky concept for a role-playing game.

But you are not Bi. You can't speak for the community. Ergo, you should keep opinions to yourself.

This game is a perfect example of what happens when developers catered specifically to fans fanatics. 

[Siansonea]

Gosh, am I the only attractive person here? I have been hit on by humans of all sorts, male, female, neither, both, of all sorts of different backgrounds. In the vast majority of cases my response has been "ummmm, no", even if they are heterosexual males, which are my 'target audience'. I have never been offended because somebody thought I was pretty and wanted to tell me so. Lighten up, peoples.

[Abispa]

Not so much "bi" as heteroflexible. Bring back those Hellenistic values, baby.

[General_Minus]

Siansonea II wrote...

Gosh, am I the only attractive person here? I have been hit on by humans of all sorts, male, female, neither, both, of all sorts of different backgrounds. In the vast majority of cases my response has been "ummmm, no", even if they are heterosexual males, which are my 'target audience'. I have never been offended because somebody thought I was pretty and wanted to tell me so. Lighten up, peoples.

I bet you tell yourself that every night to help you sleep. 

[jlb524]

General_Minus wrote...

But you are not Bi. You can't speak for the community. Ergo, you should keep opinions to yourself.

This game is a perfect example of what happens when developers catered specifically to fans fanatics. 

Oh, but you do speak for the LGBT community?

I'm gay and even I don't speak for the LGBT community

[Siansonea]

General_Minus wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

General_Minus wrote...

I hope in DA3 they get rid of all Bi romance and put back exclusive straight romances.

Let the LGBT people speak for themselves.

You know, Bi romances don't just benefit "LGBT people". The rest of us might actually role play as someone other than ourselves. I know, wacky concept for a role-playing game.

But you are not Bi. You can't speak for the community. Ergo, you should keep opinions to yourself.

This game is a perfect example of what happens when developers catered specifically to fans fanatics. 

Well, fry me up in fat and call me a hush puppy, what fun logic.

I am speaking for MYSELF. Maybe that wasn't clear. If it wasn't clear, let it be known that I am speaking for myself. 

[Siansonea]

General_Minus wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

Gosh, am I the only attractive person here? I have been hit on by humans of all sorts, male, female, neither, both, of all sorts of different backgrounds. In the vast majority of cases my response has been "ummmm, no", even if they are heterosexual males, which are my 'target audience'. I have never been offended because somebody thought I was pretty and wanted to tell me so. Lighten up, peoples.

I bet you tell yourself that every night to help you sleep. 

Oh, the truth, how it burns! Except, you know, not. Seriously, is that all you got? Because it's hilarious, but also hilariously off-topic...

Anyway, back to bisectionals...

[IanPolaris]

Siansonea II wrote...

General_Minus wrote...

I hope in DA3 they get rid of all Bi romance and put back exclusive straight romances.

Let the LGBT people speak for themselves.

You know, Bi romances don't just benefit "LGBT people". The rest of us might actually role play as someone other than ourselves. I know, wacky concept for a role-playing game.

I don't think anyone except perhaps the most unreasonable (and most ignorable) were ever opposed to bi romances.  I think that having ALL romances be bi romances stretches believability to the breaking point and has a negative impact on NPC character developement.  That's all I've ever said.  I also said I rated it only as an annoyance.  There are things that violate believability in DA2 far worse and I've said so.

-Polaris

[Nerdage]

Siansonea II wrote...

Gosh, am I the only attractive person here? I have been hit on by humans of all sorts, male, female, neither, both, of all sorts of different backgrounds. In the vast majority of cases my response has been "ummmm, no", even if they are heterosexual males, which are my 'target audience'. I have never been offended because somebody thought I was pretty and wanted to tell me so. Lighten up, peoples.

<<<The name says it all, I'm afraid.

[The dead fish]

DuckSoup wrote...

This is turning into a real cat-fight... *eats hotdog*

I just see all that turning into the speech of good against evil, the good guys against bad guys. The tolerant against the demons of religion, free of malice, insult to human intelligence.

The discussion was intelligent at first, and rational in the first pages. Both sides had something to say.

Then I do not know why we fell in Bush's crusade against evil.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 10 mai 2011 - 08:43 .

[jwalker]

General_Minus wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

General_Minus wrote...

I hope in DA3 they get rid of all Bi romance and put back exclusive straight romances.

Let the LGBT people speak for themselves.

You know, Bi romances don't just benefit "LGBT people". The rest of us might actually role play as someone other than ourselves. I know, wacky concept for a role-playing game.

But you are not Bi. You can't speak for the community. Ergo, you should keep opinions to yourself.

This game is a perfect example of what happens when developers catered specifically to fans fanatics. 

Well, this is public forum and we all do nothing but share opionions, just like you.

You're not a mage, but you can play as one.

If you like to role play a straight character, you can. If you want to role play a bi character you can.
If you don't like some of those options, don't choose it. Simple.

Having options makes it a better game.

[Mr.House]

Everyone is bi in DA2? Why wasn't I told.

[Abispa]

General_Minus wrote...

Siansonea II wrote...

General_Minus wrote...

I hope in DA3 they get rid of all Bi romance and put back exclusive straight romances.

Let the LGBT people speak for themselves.

You know, Bi romances don't just benefit "LGBT people". The rest of us might actually role play as someone other than ourselves. I know, wacky concept for a role-playing game.

But you are not Bi. You can't speak for the community. Ergo, you should keep opinions to yourself.

This game is a perfect example of what happens when developers catered specifically to fans fanatics. 

So Bioware caters to it's gay and bisexual fans. Big deal? It only takes about a second to cut off a same-sex character's interest in you, and considering how many times you have to press a button to play this game, it ain't a big deal. Neither my girlfriend nor I are White, and Bioware caters to us by allowing us to create Black and Asian characters (and in DA2 even the family assumes the same race -- good job, Bioware), even though it's pretty obvious that Ferelden is predominantly white.

[General_Minus]

What options? There was absolutely none whatsoever in this game. The people here pretending to be gay or lesbian have ruined the DA series with there ridiculous demands for equal romances.

Why can't you be happy with Origins style? When is it enough for you people?

[General_Minus]

Mr.House wrote...

Everyone is bi in DA2? Why wasn't I told.

I see what you did there

[jlb524]

IanPolaris wrote...

I don't think anyone except perhaps the most unreasonable (and most ignorable) were ever opposed to bi romances.  I think that having ALL romances be bi romances stretches believability to the breaking point and has a negative impact on NPC character developement.  That's all I've ever said.  I also said I rated it only as an annoyance.  There are things that violate believability in DA2 far worse and I've said so.

-Polaris

Is it that big of a deal in lieu of giving people more options?

I don't think it has a negative impact on NPC character development...I would bet money that if all the DA2 LIs would have been heterosexual, the romances and character dev would still have played out the same way.

If you have issues with lack of dialog, that's hardly an issue with sexuality and is a criticism that could be levied at any romance.

I personally think the ME romances are pretty poor in this regard (dialog and character dev), and most of them are heterosexual.

I still think these criticisms all come down to people feeling that they have a 'right' to have their own hetero romance that they do not have to share with the same sex character, no matter how one tries to rationalize it.  These "hetero-only" romances are somehow necessarily deeper and more meaningful than ones in which they are created for both gender of Hawke's to enjoy.  No one can give good reasons for why this is the case, though.

If the DA2 romances didn't feel as 'deep or meaningful' as the Origins ones, I would believe it would have to do with DA2 having a shorter dev time and less dialog overall and not with the fact that all LIs are open to both genders.

[Mr.House]

IanPolaris wrote...
I don't think anyone except perhaps the most unreasonable (and most ignorable) were ever opposed to bi romances.  I think that having ALL romances be bi romances stretches believability to the breaking point and has a negative impact on NPC character developement.  That's all I've ever said.  I also said I rated it only as an annoyance.  There are things that violate believability in DA2 far worse and I've said so.

-Polaris

I don't see this. If you only play ladyhawke, the only person you know who is bi in game is Izzy, unless you meta game. Same with malehawke, you will know Anders and Izzy are bi, but not Fenris or Merrill. I don't see how it's unrelistic or unbelieveable.

[Melca36]

General_Minus wrote...

I hope in DA3 they get rid of all Bi romance and put back exclusive straight romances.

Let the LGBT people speak for themselves.

Poor baby...You clicked the wrong things and got rivalry for it and are still mad about it.


The game is NOT forcing you into anything.  I suggest you work on your security issues.

[jlb524]

General_Minus wrote...

Why can't you be happy with Origins style? When is it enough for you people?

When all the LIs are gay-only.  Then my work will be done.

[Mr.House]

jlb524 wrote...
Is it that big of a deal in lieu of giving people more options?

I don't think it has a negative impact on NPC character development...I would bet money that if all the DA2 LIs would have been heterosexual, the romances and character dev would still have played out the same way.

If you have issues with lack of dialog, that's hardly an issue with sexuality and is a criticism that could be levied at any romance.

I personally think the ME romances are pretty poor in this regard (dialog and character dev), and most of them are heterosexual.

I still think these criticisms all come down to people feeling that they have a 'right' to have their own hetero romance that they do not have to share with the same sex character, no matter how one tries to rationalize it.  These "hetero-only" romances are somehow necessarily deeper and more meaningful than ones in which they are created for both gender of Hawke's to enjoy.  No one can give good reasons for why this is the case, though.

If the DA2 romances didn't feel as 'deep or meaningful' as the Origins ones, I would believe it would have to do with DA2 having a shorter dev time and less dialog overall and not with the fact that all LIs are open to both genders.

I really comes to people metagming and then using that to fuel there hate.