534 réponses à ce sujet

[Andraste_Reborn]

Why can't you wannabe GLBT players just be happy for what you got instead of moaning and complaining about romances.

Because straight characters had two romances options in Origins and gay characters only had one? I don't think it's unreasonable for people to want the same choices straight gamers get as a matter of course. I remember how annoying it was when I could only romance Anomen in BG2.

(And I'm one of those weirdos who loves Anomen!)

[DeadLetterBox]

General_Minus wrote...

Andrastee wrote...

Actually Aveline can kiss female Hawke and Varric can flirt with either gender

I dunno, I don't consider that definitive evidence. A kiss on the cheek for someone who helped you get together with the person you're interested in isn't necessarily sexual. Varric seems to be joking regardless of the player's gender. I guess you could interpret them as bisexual if you wanted; I don't think there's any Word of God on the subject.

Anders was sure as hell straight in Awakening

Anders isn't Anders anymore.

[TheBlackBaron]

leonia42 wrote...

Oh it's not a perfection solution by any means but it's not as scary as everyone makes it out to be either. The ideal situation, with infinite resources, is to do what they in Origins and possibly introduce a "What is your Hawke's sexuality?" option in character creation.

My first Hawke was a lesbian and didn't know nor care what the rest of her companions' sexualities were (except Merrill who was her only LI).

Eh, not sure about making it part of character creation, that seems like the sort of thing that should be established through character interaction. But, I agree, it's not the big deal that some make it out to be. Heck, my own first Hawke was bisexual and eventually wound up with Merrill. 

Probably the best way to "balance it out" would be to have two exclusively homosexual options added to Origins setup. Of course, I've heard some people say that would cause us horrible straight (mostly male) gamers to cry rivers of tears over not having one of them available to us, and saying anything to the contray just meant we were in denial. <_<

Modifié par TheBlackBaron, 10 mai 2011 - 10:33 .

[General_Minus]

leonia42 wrote...

General_Minus wrote...

Andrastee wrote...

Actually Aveline can kiss female Hawke and Varric can flirt with either gender

I dunno, I don't consider that definitive evidence. A kiss on the cheek for someone who helped you get together with the person you're interested in isn't necessarily sexual. Varric seems to be joking regardless of the player's gender. I guess you could interpret them as bisexual if you wanted; I don't think there's any Word of God on the subject.

Anders was sure as hell straight in Awakening

Not true. He never said he was straight. All he mentioned were robes made for quick trysts in the corner when the templars weren't looking.

SEE thats the responses I would get for posting that comment. The fans in this series has everything totally backward about everything doing with relationships and GLBT

Did YOU thought Anders was gay the moment you saw him in awakening? nope but after the revelation he is gay in DA2, fans stated that he was not straight because he never said so. 

If Anders NEVER showed for DA2, you have 99.9% of the population believing him to be canonally straight

[JPadinhaT]

Did no one realize how a lot of characters got messed up in DA2?

[DeadLetterBox]

General_Minus wrote...

leonia42 wrote...

General_Minus wrote...

Andrastee wrote...

Actually Aveline can kiss female Hawke and Varric can flirt with either gender

I dunno, I don't consider that definitive evidence. A kiss on the cheek for someone who helped you get together with the person you're interested in isn't necessarily sexual. Varric seems to be joking regardless of the player's gender. I guess you could interpret them as bisexual if you wanted; I don't think there's any Word of God on the subject.

Anders was sure as hell straight in Awakening

Not true. He never said he was straight. All he mentioned were robes made for quick trysts in the corner when the templars weren't looking.

SEE thats the responses I would get for posting that comment. The fans in this series has everything totally backward about everything doing with relationships and GLBT

Did YOU thought Anders was gay the moment you saw him in awakening? nope but after the revelation he is gay in DA2, fans stated that he was not straight because he never said so. 

If Anders NEVER showed for DA2, you have 99.9% of the population believing him to be canonally straight

I'm sorry, I'm not seeing the smoking gun here.  What precisely was awful about that answer?

BTW, you can't always tell if someone is gay just by looking.  Believe me.  I've been embarassed by that fact before.

Modifié par DeadLetterBox, 10 mai 2011 - 10:43 .

[AkumaBear]

General_Minus wrote...
SEE thats the responses I would get for posting that comment. The fans in this series has everything totally backward about everything doing with relationships and GLBT

Did YOU thought Anders was gay the moment you saw him in awakening? nope but after the revelation he is gay in DA2, fans stated that he was not straight because he never said so. 

If Anders NEVER showed for DA2, you have 99.9% of the population believing him to be canonally straight

"Did YOU thought Anders was gay the moment you saw him in awakening?"
Should he be wearing a pink triangle?

"If Anders NEVER showed for DA2, you have 99.9% of the population believing him to be canonally straight"
You're saying that since people assume he's straight he MUST be straight? This is basically a Dumbledore case.

[General_Minus]

You actually can tell if they are gay by looking at them

back on topic, Anders was suppose to be straight. No evidence to suggest he was gay or bi. It would be he-said, she-said.

[Wulfram]

IanPolaris wrote...

It's lazy programming.

You say lazy, I say efficient.

[General_Minus]

YES, he should be wearing pink to establish he's gay or flirted with the main hero but he didn't wear pink, he didn't flirt with males, only females

ergo, he's straight. Stop justifying something that was never there

[AkumaBear]

"You actually can tell if they are gay by looking at them"
...

"back on topic, Anders was suppose to be straight. No evidence to suggest he was gay or bi. It would be he-said, she-said."
Was there any evidence to suggest he wasn't bi?
If a character doesn't flirt ever does this mean they're asexual?

Modifié par AkumaBear, 10 mai 2011 - 10:50 .

[DeadLetterBox]

General_Minus wrote...

You actually can tell if they are gay by looking at them

back on topic, Anders was suppose to be straight. No evidence to suggest he was gay or bi. It would be he-said, she-said.

There are people who fit the stereotype.  There are people who do not.  This I am a hundred per cent sure of.  You cannot always tell.  That's truth, from someone who actually knows a few gay people (and knows she knows gay people.)

[Abispa]

So... you are looking for "realism" in a... video game? In a... video game featuring... elves, dragons, dwarves, abominations, quick healing potions, and lots and lots of torn trousers?

[Harmless Crunch]

So Anders once saying something a long the lines of
"Well I'm lucky to have such a handsome leader"
(Oh and I'm a straight male gamer)
And how can you know somebody's homosexual/bisexual by just looking at them?

[IanPolaris]

Andrastee wrote...

Why can't you wannabe GLBT players just be happy for what you got instead of moaning and complaining about romances.

Because straight characters had two romances options in Origins and gay characters only had one? I don't think it's unreasonable for people to want the same choices straight gamers get as a matter of course. I remember how annoying it was when I could only romance Anomen in BG2.

(And I'm one of those weirdos who loves Anomen!)

Why?  Mind you I don't care a whit about what your sexuality is or even if you have any (a few rare people don't), but the fact is that most people are heterosexual and a fairly small minority are homosexual...and many of these are effectively bi.  I thought the way DAO handled it was quite sensitive, advanced, and realistic all at the same time which is quite a feat.   My point is that given you are a member of a small minority (if homosexual) and given your travalling companions are basically a random sample (and some simply won't be interested in you regardless of sexuality), why should you reasonably or realistically expect more than one choice or two at best.  Even hetrosexual chraracters (the majority) in DAO only got two choices....and only one if that person had a hang-up with his sexuality (since only one of the two was purely heterosexual).

It does bear at least the faint reek of entitlement thinking.  Sorry but it does.

-Polaris

[IanPolaris]

Wulfram wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

It's lazy programming.

You say lazy, I say efficient.

I say lazy because having the love interests be openly hawke-sexual (sometimes in apparent defiance of preexisting lore of characters....see Anders) merely causes more problems than it solves except that it's easier to code.  Given that DAO handled the issue very well, I calls them as I seems them.  Lazy programming.

-Polaris

[General_Minus]

Bioware tout this game as Realism Fantasy set in Medieval times but with modern morals. If this was fantasy morals or medieval, you would have pregnant 13 year old mothers, incest marriage, diseases, and poor people being trampled by rich people with no way out.

Study the medieval ages

[IanPolaris]

Abispa wrote...

So... you are looking for "realism" in a... video game? In a... video game featuring... elves, dragons, dwarves, abominations, quick healing potions, and lots and lots of torn trousers?

I look for verisimilitude.  That is even in fantasy, I expect hammers to fall when I drop them, I expect bricks to hurt when they fall on my feet and feathers not to, unless I have some reason to disregard those expectations (which usually involves explicit magic).

Unless one can point to the love potion vendor in Kirkwall......

-Polaris

[Andraste_Reborn]

Why? Mind you I don't care a whit about what your sexuality is or even if you have any (a few rare people don't), but the fact is that most people are heterosexual and a fairly small minority are homosexual...and many of these are effectively bi.

I'd rather give everyone - straight and LGB - more options than pander to the notion of realism in a game where we fling fireballs around at will. Obviously other people feel differently, and that's fine unless they're jerks about it. (Like the original poster seems to be - I don't mean you.) Finding four attractive people who are willing to sleep with you if you flirt with them in the same group of adventurers is pretty far-fetched to begin with, I don't think it really makes it any more implausible if they're all Hawkesexual. Naturally your mileage may vary, but I'm glad BioWare chose this path.

People aren't entitled to any romance options at all, but if we're going to have them, I'm happy for them to be available to everyone. (And for the record, I'm a straight woman.)

Modifié par Andrastee, 10 mai 2011 - 11:06 .

[IanPolaris]

General_Minus wrote...

Bioware tout this game as Realism Fantasy set in Medieval times but with modern morals. If this was fantasy morals or medieval, you would have pregnant 13 year old mothers, incest marriage, diseases, and poor people being trampled by rich people with no way out.

Study the medieval ages

Actually the 13year old incestuous marriages were usually reseved for royalty and nobility (mainly for political reasons).  Commoners generally got married much later usually because no one could afford marriage (and the household responsibilities that went with it) until well into their twenties. 

Of course in the middle ages and rennesiance at least with commoners, there was a strong tradition of "handfasting" or "extended betrothals" in which a formally betrothed couple would often live together as man and wife for years while earning enough for a wedding and household.

-Polaris

Modifié par IanPolaris, 10 mai 2011 - 11:02 .

[The dead fish]

I look for verisimilitude.

Exactly, exactly, exactly like everyone. To say " there are dragons, so why all people in Thedas can't be Bi, is the least convincing argument I've ever read. "

DA2's animations, it's the same thing. We are ready to believe anything as long as there is verisimilitude in the universe of dragon age that clearly defines rules and limits.

When you see roguehawke to teleport, it is anything for example.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 10 mai 2011 - 11:05 .

[IanPolaris]

Andrastee wrote...

Why? Mind you I don't care a whit about what your sexuality is or even if you have any (a few rare people don't), but the fact is that most people are heterosexual and a fairly small minority are homosexual...and many of these are effectively bi.

I'd rather give everyone - straight <i>and</i> LGB - more options than pander to the notion of realism in a game where we fling fireballs around at will. Obviously other people feel differently, and that's fine unless they're jerks about it. (Like the original poster seems to be - I don't mean you.) Finding four attractive people who are willing to sleep with you if you flirt with them in the same group of adventurers is pretty far-fetched to begin with, I don't think it really makes it any more implausible if they're all Hawkesexual. Naturally your mileage may vary, but I'm glad BioWare chose this path.

People aren't entitled to any romance options at all, but if we're going to have them, I'm happy for them to be available to everyone. (And for the record, I'm a straight woman.)

I disagree.  I find that the overt "Hawkesexuality" harms my sense of immersion in the game which I consider to be of paramount importance in any ©RPG.  Of course there are other things in DA2 that are far worse offenders than this (such as the Platemail Airborne Infantry and Templars that are blind to Hawke-magic), but it is an irritant....so I guess we'll have to respectfully disagree.

-Polaris

[Andraste_Reborn]

I guess we'll have to respectfully disagree.

Indeed. I think I either don't place that high a priority on immersion in video games, or I derive it from different things to most poeple. I know a lot of people find those parachuting templars extremely distracting, but they've never bothered me . I admit there were times when I wondered why Hawke was carrying around fifteen Moth-Eaten Scarves and where she was keeping them, though ...

[rayvioletta]

some guys play male characters and want to romance female characters
some girls play female characters and want to romance male characters
some guys play female characters but want to romance female characters
some girls play male characters but want to romance male characters
some guys play male characters but want to romance male characters
some girls play female characters but want to romance female characters

rather than throwing in a romance for each possible interest and then having the gay wardens complaining that they like Alistair better than Zevran for example they just made all the love interests bisexual. those who don't like it can ignore it and at most take a very minor rivalry hit that's easily offset. really, what's to get upset about?

as for me personally, in most games with replay value I'll try to experience everything. I'm a straight male human working in retail in real life but why should that mean my characters can't be male or female, straight, lesbian, gay, bisexual, warriors, rogues, mages, good, evil, human, elf, dwarf...

[Wulfram]

IanPolaris wrote...

I say lazy because having the love interests be openly hawke-sexual (sometimes in apparent defiance of preexisting lore of characters....see Anders) merely causes more problems than it solves except that it's easier to code.  Given that DAO handled the issue very well, I calls them as I seems them.  Lazy programming.

-Polaris

If they'd simply changed a few pronouns around and called it a day, I'd agree with lazy.  But they did more than that.

It creates more choice than would otherwise be there, and I don't find the problems it creates to be bothersome - it's not unreasonable that in 10 years Hawke would find two people of the same sex who were interested in them, even if it is unlikely that they'd both be party members.  So for me, it's a sensible and efficient use of resources.