534 réponses à ce sujet

[DeadLetterBox]

IanPolaris wrote...


Unless one can point to the love potion vendor in Kirkwall......

-Polaris

Now that would be one way to solve the problem.  

[MG800]

General_Minus wrote...

YES, he should be wearing pink to establish he's gay or flirted with the main hero but he didn't wear pink, he didn't flirt with males, only females

ergo, he's straight. Stop justifying something that was never there

So, what should bisexual women wear, then? I'm curious.
Should she cut her hair? Wear always pants? Have a "I'm Bi!" tattoed on her forehead?
Do you care to know, if women is bisexual?

[IanPolaris]

rayvioletta wrote...

rather than throwing in a romance for each possible interest and then having the gay wardens complaining that they like Alistair better than Zevran for example they just made all the love interests bisexual. those who don't like it can ignore it and at most take a very minor rivalry hit that's easily offset. really, what's to get upset about?

I think "upset" is overstated it (at least for me).  It's closer to "annoying".  Why do I find it annoying?  The same reason I find paradropping platmail fighters (inside no less), and teleporting mages annoying (in contravention with the stated laws of magic in the world).  Games (esp RPGs) work on a sense of WSD (Willing Suspension of Disbelief).  Having EVERYONE including the Viscount's pet pooch start humping on Hawke's leg is a bit much.....

-Polaris

[IanPolaris]

[dp]

[Most Definitely Sane]

Everyone is bi because they're bi.
I thought the answer was obvious.

[IanPolaris]

Wulfram wrote...

If they'd simply changed a few pronouns around and called it a day, I'd agree with lazy.  But they did more than that.

Having played them all, that IS pretty much all they did.  The only romance I saw where there was any significant difference because of sexual orientation was Anders (Male Hawkes get to hear about Karl and Ander's prior relationship and female LIs don't).  I stand by my charge of lazy.

-Polaris

[IanPolaris]

Most Definitely Sane wrote...

Everyone is bi because they're bi.
I thought the answer was obvious.

Which violates any reasonable sense of verisimilitude.  Most people IRL are not bi.

-Polaris

[DeadLetterBox]

MG800 wrote...

General_Minus wrote...

YES, he should be wearing pink to establish he's gay or flirted with the main hero but he didn't wear pink, he didn't flirt with males, only females

ergo, he's straight. Stop justifying something that was never there

So, what should bisexual women wear, then? I'm curious.
Should she cut her hair? Wear always pants? Have a "I'm Bi!" tattoed on her forehead?
Do you care to know, if women is bisexual?

Wait, I'm still stuck on the whole he should wear pink to establish he's gay thing.  I did not notice that before.  Wow.  Just... wow.  I can't... really?

Okay, I'm out.  I'm going to bed now.

[Sabriana]

Ah, nostalgia. I remember the screaming and fits going on in the old forums, before DA:O was even released. People yelling and being indignant because it was Zevran and not Alistair who was the bisexual pixel toon.

Ah, the accusations of "you are stereo-typing, because the only option for non-het is Zevran, an elf." There was a huge thread made by a person having three fits from Sunday because he felt discriminated against, based on Zevran the elf being the bi-option. Oh the complaints that Morrigan wasn't available.

Really, that's ridiculous. What do you think would have happened if yet another elf was the only bi option? Or if Anders was suddenly the only bi-option? I've no clue what he was like in Awakening, I don't own it. To me, he was brand-new. The sexuality of the pixel toons in DA 2 go by the PC.

No, don't tell me they are bi because David said so. This is a RPG, and it's show, don't tell. I play a wHawke all the time. Merrill doesn't give any indication that she has any romantic interest in her. Isabela is Isabela. Anders doesn't do or say anything that indicates his preferences except hitting on her way too soon. Not a complaint, some people do that, and she simply put the hammer on him. All was well after that.
Unromanced Fenris hooks up with Isabela, and that's the only indication wHawke has of his preferences.

This topic is a prime example for "what color do you want your hat?"

[Most Definitely Sane]

IanPolaris wrote...

Most Definitely Sane wrote...

Everyone is bi because they're bi.
I thought the answer was obvious.

Which violates any reasonable sense of verisimilitude.  Most people IRL are not bi.

-Polaris

How do you know that? Just because most people you know aren't bi, it doesn't mean most people aren't bi.
Technically, there is no proof that Anders, Merrill, and Fenris weren't bi before.

[The dead fish]

Sexuality is part of the personality of a character.

Zevran and Leliana 's Sexuality is unquestionably likely, because there are differences, because they have a story, explanations.

In DA2, everything seems to just make no sense, no place. Immersion is simply broken, even if the idea is to let anyone choose. No. The solution is not that, it's just laziness and ease.

Disrespect for story and realism. Do not ask me to accept such a sacrifice when there are better options, and when this system seems so silly.

Sexuality which is part of the definition of the uniqueness of a character is disembodied.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 10 mai 2011 - 11:22 .

[SirGladiator]

I'd asy its perfectly reasonable for Merrill to be into Hawke regardless of gender, why not? There's no reason why she couldn't be. It certainly plays out really nicely when she and Lady Hawke are in a relationship. If someone wants to think of her as totally straight, its easy enough to do, simply play a male character and romance her, or play a female character and don't. There's simply no reason to take that option away from those of us who like it. It works really well, I'm only surprised it took this long to implement it, I expected after the overwhelming popularity and success of the Silk Fox romance with the female character in Jade Empire, that going forward all female LIs would be romancable by both genders, I was a bit surprised when Ashley wasn't (she almost was, the romance is actually on the disc), and of course most everybody was surprised when Morrigan wasn't. The whole ME2 thing was beyond shocking, I could write whole paragraphs about that, but I digress . The point being this decision was long overdue, its a good one, quite frankly its an obvious one, and I'm very happy it was finally made.

[IanPolaris]

Most Definitely Sane wrote...

How do you know that? Just because most people you know aren't bi, it doesn't mean most people aren't bi.
Technically, there is no proof that Anders, Merrill, and Fenris weren't bi before.

*sigh*  Do we really have to go there?  EVERY study including the most liberal I've seen have conclusively showed that large marjorities of people are heterosexual.  I have nothing against whatever (if any) sexuality you or anyone else might have, but most people have a rather well defined sexualtity and it's one key component of heir personality.  The idea that everyone in the world (or so it seems) wants to hump your character's leg is not good story telling and it's not how the world works.

Stop reacting to what you think I'm saying please, and step back and consider that I might be right...most people are in fact "straight" and almost all have well defined sexuality (whatever it may be) and that sexuality is an important part of who that person is.

-Polaris

[Rifneno]

 I have only one thing to say.

[The dead fish]

Most Definitely Sane wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

Most Definitely Sane wrote...

Everyone is bi because they're bi.
I thought the answer was obvious.

Which violates any reasonable sense of verisimilitude.  Most people IRL are not bi.

-Polaris

How do you know that? Just because most people you know aren't bi, it doesn't mean most people aren't bi.
Technically, there is no proof that Anders, Merrill, and Fenris weren't bi before.

Weak.

I'm black. Is what I tell myself that the majority of players are black because I have no proof?

Why there is no black heroes in DA? Or even important characters and in all games ? I never understood why it was so difficult to recognize something obvious in relation to sexuality

The majority is white or other (Asian) heterosexual, etc., I see no problem to recognize it. this is not what is going to prevent deal to resolve the issue of minorities.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 10 mai 2011 - 11:29 .

[IanPolaris]

SirGladiator wrote...

I'd asy its perfectly reasonable for Merrill to be into Hawke regardless of gender, why not? There's no reason why she couldn't be. It certainly plays out really nicely when she and Lady Hawke are in a relationship. If someone wants to think of her as totally straight, its easy enough to do, simply play a male character and romance her, or play a female character and don't. There's simply no reason to take that option away from those of us who like it. It works really well, I'm only surprised it took this long to implement it, I expected after the overwhelming popularity and success of the Silk Fox romance with the female character in Jade Empire, that going forward all female LIs would be romancable by both genders, I was a bit surprised when Ashley wasn't (she almost was, the romance is actually on the disc), and of course most everybody was surprised when Morrigan wasn't. The whole ME2 thing was beyond shocking, I could write whole paragraphs about that, but I digress . The point being this decision was long overdue, its a good one, quite frankly its an obvious one, and I'm very happy it was finally made.

I disagree.  I think it's laziness.  Of course of all my criticisms of DA2, this probably doesn't make the top ten, but it is an irritant.  Most people do NOT change their sexuality at the drop of a hat.  Doesn't work that way.

Now Isabella we already know to be bi from DAO so the fact she is openly bisexual is fine by me.  As for Fenris and Merrill, they have to be defined so I could see them being defined either way but such definition IS an important part of their personality (and this is why making them default bi does both a disservice).  If you want them to be "bi" then show (don't tell) this in their personas.  Instead both Merrill and Fenris are openly "Hawke-sexual".  As for Anders, we know from DAA that Anders is straight.  It's remotely possible that Justice may have changed that, but that seems unlikely since I don't see how a spirit could care about human sexuality at all.

So no, I don't think it's a good idea.  I think it's lazy.  I think if you wan to have romances for GLB players, then do so openly with NPCs that are that way (as DAO did).

-Polaris

[Wulfram]

Sabriana wrote...

I play a wHawke all the time. Merrill doesn't give any indication that she has any romantic interest in her.

Merrill: *giggles* "The Champion of Kirkwall, going into battle naked. Why don't I ever have that dream?"

[IanPolaris]

Wulfram wrote...

Sabriana wrote...

I play a wHawke all the time. Merrill doesn't give any indication that she has any romantic interest in her.

Merrill: *giggles* "The Champion of Kirkwall, going into battle naked. Why don't I ever have that dream?"

Oh yes, Merrill is unabashedly Hawke-sexual.  You hear it in other banter such as one that goes (to the best of myh memory):

Merrill: Do you like Hawke?  I think I do (subdued giggle).
Aveline: Well keep it to yourself.
Merrill:  I'd rather keep it with him/her (more giggling).

-Polaris

[Sabriana]

Wulfram wrote...

Sabriana wrote...

I play a wHawke all the time. Merrill doesn't give any indication that she has any romantic interest in her.

Merrill: *giggles* "The Champion of Kirkwall, going into battle naked. Why don't I ever have that dream?"

WHawke never heard that line. She never heard anything from Merrill that indicated romantic interest. I'm not even remotely interested in a love-relationship with other women, however, I banter around with my women friends all the time - the banter going in any and all directions. I also compliment them if warranted. A friend of mine started going to the gym regularly. She looks fabulous, her physique is worthy of admiration. I (and other women) told her so. I'm straight, I know it, and I'm quite comfortable with it.

I can totally see myself saying this line to one of my women friends. I'd crack up watching her do something like that. Well, not going into battle, but running into a board room meeting buck-naked, or something like that.

[moilami]

I am the only straight male in this forum. And I am proud of it.

[ejoslin]

Sabriana wrote...

Wulfram wrote...

Sabriana wrote...

I play a wHawke all the time. Merrill doesn't give any indication that she has any romantic interest in her.

Merrill: *giggles* "The Champion of Kirkwall, going into battle naked. Why don't I ever have that dream?"

WHawke never heard that line. She never heard anything from Merrill that indicated romantic interest. I'm not even remotely interested in a love-relationship with other women, however, I banter around with my women friends all the time - the banter going in any and all directions. I also compliment them if warranted. A friend of mine started going to the gym regularly. She looks fabulous, her physique is worthy of admiration. I (and other women) told her so. I'm straight, I know it, and I'm quite comfortable with it.

I can totally see myself saying this line to one of my women friends. I'd crack up watching her do something like that. Well, not going into battle, but running into a board room meeting buck-naked, or something like that.

I have never heard that banter on a femHawke either, probably because I never pressed a option for her.  Those banters being quoted most likely have to have a romance active, or at least a flirtation, to trigger.  Or maybe I never walked around with the correct party.  I do know that flriting and romancing does open up a few more banters.

Modifié par ejoslin, 10 mai 2011 - 12:07 .

[TEWR]

Here we go again..........


Why do people have such a big problem with this? God almighty I'm straight and I don't care one **** about them all being bi. Hell I know a good amount of bi people irl.

[Nodscouter]

Because they think it's unrealistic or something like that.

moilami wrote...

I am the only straight male in this forum. And I am proud of it.

Atta boy. Now explain how that makes you superior to the 'rest' of us.
Also, it's bloody fantasy! If you didn't want the game to be unrealistic, you're in the wrong f*cking genre! I truly don't understand how people can complain about it not being realistic or something and coming up with real world statistics and sh*t! I mean, sure, I'm not a supporter of the everyone's-bi thing (And I'm bi myself, so don't assume that all bi's love Bioware because of what they did with DA2), but I'm not complaining either.

Modifié par Nodscouter, 10 mai 2011 - 12:09 .

[Kajan451]

General_Minus wrote...

whykikyouwhy wrote...

I believe that the bisexuality of the companions is to allow those characters to be available as love interests for however you play Hawke. It's to allow a bit of fairness with the romance options. Guys and girls alike can woo Isabela, guys and girls alike can woo Fenris, etc.

But doesn't that alienate the Straight gamer crowd?

I am a straight man and while i do have some beefs with the current system, like being unable to tell the gay guys that you are not interrested without sounding like a complete homophobic ass.

But other than that.. it didn't alienate me, and quite frankly... i don't consider gayness to be some disease or illness, thus i am actually having homosexual male friends. And know what? I am still straight and didn't get infected with gayness.


I am not saying people are homophobic if they don't want to get in touch with bisexual content, and certainly i'd welcome an option in the game settings which can be toggled to set companions to be bisexual (because it would totally remove this whole problem, if you could set your characters sexuality right at the beginning of the game, with haircolor and everything)... but i think those who become alienated should broaden their intelectual horizon a little, they been living in a nutshell far to long.

[mesmerizedish]

They're all bi. Trufax.