534 réponses à ce sujet

[Xilizhra]

I have never heard that banter on a femHawke either, probably because I never pressed a option for her. Those banters being quoted most likely have to have a romance active, or at least a flirtation, to trigger. Or maybe I never walked around with the correct party. I do know that flriting and romancing does open up a few more banters.

Take the humorous option with her in the pre-final-battle dialogue.

[Nodscouter]

Kajan451 wrote...
But other than that.. it didn't alienate me, and quite frankly... i don't consider gayness to be some disease or illness, thus i am actually having homosexual male friends. And know what? I am still straight and didn't get infected with gayness.

It's homophobic to think ******/bisexuality is an illness?
I'm afraid of myself then... Huh.

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

ejoslin wrote...

Sabriana wrote...

Wulfram wrote...

Sabriana wrote...

I play a wHawke all the time. Merrill doesn't give any indication that she has any romantic interest in her.

Merrill: *giggles* "The Champion of Kirkwall, going into battle naked. Why don't I ever have that dream?"

WHawke never heard that line. She never heard anything from Merrill that indicated romantic interest. I'm not even remotely interested in a love-relationship with other women, however, I banter around with my women friends all the time - the banter going in any and all directions. I also compliment them if warranted. A friend of mine started going to the gym regularly. She looks fabulous, her physique is worthy of admiration. I (and other women) told her so. I'm straight, I know it, and I'm quite comfortable with it.

I can totally see myself saying this line to one of my women friends. I'd crack up watching her do something like that. Well, not going into battle, but running into a board room meeting buck-naked, or something like that.

I have never heard that banter on a femHawke either, probably because I never pressed a option for her.  Those banters being quoted most likely have to have a romance active, or at least a flirtation, to trigger.  Or maybe I never walked around with the correct party.  I do know that flriting and romancing does open up a few more banters.

It doesn't need you to flirt with her at all. My fem!warrior Hawke could get this dialogue with Merrill. She was at max friendship and this was after siding with the mages (don't know if that matters--didn't check with Templars, but I can if people really want me to).

[The dead fish]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Here we go again..........

Why do people have such a big problem with this? God almighty I'm straight and I don't care one **** about them all being bi. Hell I know a good amount of bi people irl.

People focus too much on this issue of idendity. This is the system in question that breaks everything. This is ridiculous, that's the reason.

I 'm also straight,  and I'm for homosexual relations in cohesive story.  I care of realism, that's the difference between us. You agree or not.

some of my  characters have had a relationship with same sex. Because it is coherent, because their background has worked, makes sense .

Modifié par Sylvianus, 10 mai 2011 - 12:27 .

[Andraste_Reborn]

It's homophobic to think ******/bisexuality is an illness?

It sure is.

[Leonia]

General_Minus wrote...

You actually can tell if they are gay by looking at them

back on topic, Anders was suppose to be straight. No evidence to suggest he was gay or bi. It would be he-said, she-said.

What. Why are ALL of your posts like this. Are you being deliberately obtuse or are you a borderline troll trying to get reactions out of people? Or do you genuinely believe this?

[TEWR]

Sylvianus wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Here we go again..........

Why do people have such a big problem with this? God almighty I'm straight and I don't care one **** about them all being bi. Hell I know a good amount of bi people irl.

People focus too much on this issue of idendity. This is the system in question that breaks everything. This is ridiculous, that's the reason.

I 'm also straight,  and I'm for homosexual relations in cohesive story.  I care of realism, that's the difference between us. You agree or not.

some of my  characters have had a relationship with same sex. Because it is coherent, because their background has worked, makes sense .

The Anders backlash I never understood, but I don't want to get into that again. Merrill we never saw enough time of to draw a definite conclusion on her orientation prior to DA2. Isabella everyone knew was bi. And Fenris I guess could be attributed to him just wanting someone to be there for him. He's been alone all his life, I doubt he cares who he's with. In banter with Isabella they hinted at a fling. So did Anders with Isabella.

I just don't understand people sometimes. It's one of the reasons why I hate people with a passion of burning, fiery hate.

[Wulfram]

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

It doesn't need you to flirt with her at all. My fem!warrior Hawke could get this dialogue with Merrill. She was at max friendship and this was after siding with the mages (don't know if that matters--didn't check with Templars, but I can if people really want me to).

I checked it with Templars.  Merrill always wants dreams of naked Hawke.

[ejoslin]

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

ejoslin wrote...

Sabriana wrote...

Wulfram wrote...

Sabriana wrote...

I play a wHawke all the time. Merrill doesn't give any indication that she has any romantic interest in her.

Merrill: *giggles* "The Champion of Kirkwall, going into battle naked. Why don't I ever have that dream?"

WHawke never heard that line. She never heard anything from Merrill that indicated romantic interest. I'm not even remotely interested in a love-relationship with other women, however, I banter around with my women friends all the time - the banter going in any and all directions. I also compliment them if warranted. A friend of mine started going to the gym regularly. She looks fabulous, her physique is worthy of admiration. I (and other women) told her so. I'm straight, I know it, and I'm quite comfortable with it.

I can totally see myself saying this line to one of my women friends. I'd crack up watching her do something like that. Well, not going into battle, but running into a board room meeting buck-naked, or something like that.

I have never heard that banter on a femHawke either, probably because I never pressed a option for her.  Those banters being quoted most likely have to have a romance active, or at least a flirtation, to trigger.  Or maybe I never walked around with the correct party.  I do know that flriting and romancing does open up a few more banters.

It doesn't need you to flirt with her at all. My fem!warrior Hawke could get this dialogue with Merrill. She was at max friendship and this was after siding with the mages (don't know if that matters--didn't check with Templars, but I can if people really want me to).

Ah ok.  I still have never seen it, and it's not completely out of line either.  And it happens at the end of the game!

I still don't get what the big deal is about all of this.  In a game where many options were taken away that were there in the original, it's nice that there were some options added.

[Nodscouter]

Andrastee wrote...

It's homophobic to think ******/bisexuality is an illness?

It sure is.

But why? You don't have to think of them as lesser because of it. I don't think cancer patients are worse than me, especially when I have it myself.

[Kajan451]

Nodscouter wrote...

It's homophobic to think ******/bisexuality is an illness?
I'm afraid of myself then... Huh.

I am truely sorry for you, if you consider yourself to be sick because you are bisexual. THAT certainly is totally screwed up.

[IanPolaris]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
The Anders backlash I never understood, but I don't want to get into that again. Merrill we never saw enough time of to draw a definite conclusion on her orientation prior to DA2. Isabella everyone knew was bi. And Fenris I guess could be attributed to him just wanting someone to be there for him. He's been alone all his life, I doubt he cares who he's with. In banter with Isabella they hinted at a fling. So did Anders with Isabella.

I just don't understand people sometimes. It's one of the reasons why I hate people with a passion of burning, fiery hate.

I don't get the hate but I do get the annoyance, so I'll try again to explain where I am coming from on this.  If the writers wanted to define bisexuality as an intrinsic part of Merrill's character (or Fenris' for that matter), that would be fine.  It would be equally fine if they defined both/either to be either completely homosexual or heterosexual which frankly is far more usual.  This sexual identify would be a key component of their personalities.  Instead we get both that are openly "Hawke-sexual".  There is no real identify in this regard except no matter what, they have the hots for Hawke...and we see it throughout the game...and with the sole Anders exception, the romances are all the same with gender pronouns switched.

That's what annoys me.  It's the lack of verisimitude.  Sexual identity (whatever it is) is important and should for an important part of what makes an NPC tick and how that NPC relates to your character (esp as a LI)....and having all the LIs be "Hawke-sexual" ruins immersion for me (at least in part).  I really like the way DAO did it.

-Polaris

[Leonia]

Nodscouter wrote...

Andrastee wrote...

It's homophobic to think ******/bisexuality is an illness?

It sure is.

But why? You don't have to think of them as lesser because of it. I don't think cancer patients are worse than me, especially when I have it myself.

Becaues it's NOT a disease that can be cured like any other disease? It implies the person "afflicted" has no choice in the matter, that they are "ill". If you can't see how degrading that is then.. well.. damn. Can't help you. Homosexuality is not an illness. It's a lifestyle. And the people who live that way are not sick and do not need "medicine" to be healed. They are normal people.

[Nodscouter]

Fine, perhaps disease or illnes are the wrong words. I guess ''Genetic condition'' would be more proper or something. Not sure, never cared much about biology to figure out exactly where the problem is located.

And really, sex is made for reproduction. You can only reproduce with a person of the other gender. Therefore, if someone is ******/bisexual, something is malfunctioning.
By the way, guess what? Alot of diseases can't be cured. That doesn't make them not diseases. That just make them diseases that can't be cured. And besides, I think we'll find a cure for ******/bisexuality in the next 100 years.
And please understand, I'm not saying that they should be looked down upon, in any way! You may try to think that's what I'm saying, but it really isn't.
And we don't really have a choice. It's not a lifestyle. You choose a lifestyle. A lifestyle defines you in many ways. Sexuality doesn't.
And I still don't think it's degrading.

Modifié par Nodscouter, 10 mai 2011 - 12:46 .

[Xilizhra]

That's just a side effect of the companions not being explored in quite as much depth in personality, in exchange for them having much more involved plots.

Also, the friend romance scene for Merrill is definitely different for male and female Hawkes.

[Shadow of Light Dragon]

ejoslin wrote...

Ah ok.  I still have never seen it, and it's not completely out of line either.  And it happens at the end of the game!

I still don't get what the big deal is about all of this.  In a game where many options were taken away that were there in the original, it's nice that there were some options added.

The line didn't bother me at all. I thought it was cute.

I dunno. I guess some of the straight guys (and girls?) out there don't like the idea of their Hawke being with an LI who isn't straight (which is...fair enough, I suppose, but in the OP's case this appears to be their *only* grievance with the game).

I am not fond of the 'everyone is bi' deal, but for different reasons (I think it's poor RP--but considering how many RPG elements were cut I can deal with 'extra romance' being added).

[IanPolaris]

Xilizhra wrote...

That's just a side effect of the companions not being explored in quite as much depth in personality, in exchange for them having much more involved plots.

Also, the friend romance scene for Merrill is definitely different for male and female Hawkes.

I didn't notice any difference other than the pronouns.  As I said, the only one that I saw a difference was was with Anders (re Karl).  That said you're right.  The irritation I have with "hawke-sexuality" has everything to do with the companions not being adequately fleshed out in this regard (or Hawke for that matter).

-Polaris

[Nordic Warlord]

Andrastee wrote...

It's homophobic to think ******/bisexuality is an illness?

It sure is.

Well, tolerance is a good thing unless we go to extremes. ******/bisexuality may not be an illness but it is indeed a deviance.

[IanPolaris]

Shadow of Light Dragon wrote...

I am not fond of the 'everyone is bi' deal, but for different reasons (I think it's poor RP--but considering how many RPG elements were cut I can deal with 'extra romance' being added).

Interesting.  That's exactly the same reason it annoys me.  It's poor NPC developement which leads to poor RP because of flawed immersion, IMHO.

-Polaris

[Leonia]

Nordic Warlord wrote...

Andrastee wrote...

It's homophobic to think ******/bisexuality is an illness?

It sure is.

Well, tolerance is a good thing unless we go to extremes. ******/bisexuality may not be an illness but it is indeed a deviance.

Please elaborate. What kind of "deviance" is it?

[IanPolaris]

Nordic Warlord wrote...

Andrastee wrote...

It's homophobic to think ******/bisexuality is an illness?

It sure is.

Well, tolerance is a good thing unless we go to extremes. ******/bisexuality may not be an illness but it is indeed a deviance.

At the very least, ****** (and bi) sexuality is the minority and often significant minority and verisimitude should reflect that.

-Polaris

[Nodscouter]

leonia42 wrote...
Please elaborate. What kind of "deviance" is it?

Deviance from the norm. Around 97-98% of the world is straight.

Modifié par Nodscouter, 10 mai 2011 - 12:47 .

[Mystranna Kelteel]

Nodscouter wrote...
But why? You don't have to think of them as lesser because of it. I don't think cancer patients are worse than me, especially when I have it myself.

Even if you don't think they are "lesser", saying they have an illness implies, if not directly states, that you think something is wrong with them, that they're abnormal, and/or that they can or even should be "cured".

If it isn't homophobic then it's downright insulting, and, imo, extremely ignorant.

IanPolaris wrote...
I don't get the hate but I do get the annoyance, so I'll try again to explain where I am coming from on this.  If the writers wanted to define bisexuality as an intrinsic part of Merrill's character (or Fenris' for that matter), that would be fine.  It would be equally fine if they defined both/either to be either completely homosexual or heterosexual which frankly is far more usual.  This sexual identify would be a key component of their personalities.  Instead we get both that are openly "Hawke-sexual".  There is no real identify in this regard except no matter what, they have the hots for Hawke...and we see it throughout the game...and with the sole Anders exception, the romances are all the same with gender pronouns switched.

That's what annoys me.  It's the lack of verisimitude.  Sexual identity (whatever it is) is important and should for an important part of what makes an NPC tick and how that NPC relates to your character (esp as a LI)....and having all the LIs be "Hawke-sexual" ruins immersion for me (at least in part).  I really like the way DAO did it.
-Polaris

Yes, sexual identity is hugely important in defining a character.  The gender to which I'm sexually attracted is "a key component of my personality".
That's cute.

[IanPolaris]

leonia42 wrote...

Nordic Warlord wrote...

Andrastee wrote...

It's homophobic to think ******/bisexuality is an illness?

It sure is.

Well, tolerance is a good thing unless we go to extremes. ******/bisexuality may not be an illness but it is indeed a deviance.

Please elaborate. What kind of "deviance" is it?

It's not the norm.  Anything that's not the norm is 'technically' "deviance" althought the word has aquired more sinister connotations, that's all it means.

-Polaris

[Nodscouter]

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

Nodscouter wrote...
But why? You don't have to think of them as lesser because of it. I don't think cancer patients are worse than me, especially when I have it myself.

Even if you don't think they are "lesser", saying they have an illness implies, if not directly states, that you think something is wrong with them, that they're abnormal, and/or that they can or even should be "cured".

If it isn't homophobic then it's downright insulting, and, imo, extremely ignorant.

I'm not afraid of myself, so I'm not homophobic. I'm also not insulting myself, I'm quite arrogant you see.
But still, it's a genetic condition I guess you could say, for reasons already explained. Something is wrong with us, and one day we'll find a cure. But that doesn't mean I think we're abominations. I think we're normal people, just born a little differently.