534 réponses à ce sujet

[Leonia]

Nodscouter wrote...
Can I ask something of you leonia?
Can you stop assuming I hate myself and see everything I write as homophobic hate?
Because that's not what I'm doing, despite how much you want to believe it is so you can have an easier time disproving me.
Biologically, well, that depends on how you see it. There are actual legitimate studies showing how gay men have on average larger fingers than straight men and so on.
And well, vegetarians and so on have a choice. We didn't. It's like saying that because a man was born with feet sticking out of his ears, he's still the same as the rest of us and there's nothing wrong with him.

Can I ask you something Nod? Stop putting words in my mouth. You can't "dispute" what is biological fact. These are not "opnions".

There's nothing wrong with the man with feet sticking out of his ears, sure he can't hear but he deserves just as much respect as someone without that problem.

Gay people are not a disease, there is no malfuction. A gay person is just a human being who likes someone of the same gender. A vegetarian is just a person who doesn't like meat. An introvert is just a person who is more reserved and keeps to themself. There is not a thing "wrong" with any of them.

Some people DO choose to be gay, not everyone is "born that way". You probably can't tell the difference between those who choose and those who don't. And so what if you could. It doesn't matter at the end of the day. How you choose to spend your private life is none of anybody else's business.

Be gay and be proud of it. But never for a moment think there is something wrong with it.

For the record, I am a straight woman. If that matters.

Modifié par leonia42, 10 mai 2011 - 01:11 .

[IanPolaris]

Xilizhra wrote...

Only two people flirt with Hawke: Isabela, who doesn't count, and Anders.

Merrill does as well.

-Polaris

[tanuki]

I'm actually with Polaris here (and others who said that it's breaking immersion). It's lazy writing or lack of resources there. (And I am too getting cognitive dissonance with Anders because of the plain retcon of his sexuality - with male Hawke, cause with f!Hawke it's not hinted that he's bi) Hell, I think Gaider said something about that along the lines himself - that it was easier to make them all bi (don't think I'll be able to find the quote though, so you may dismiss it if you want^^) As one poster said, ideal is 2 straight/2 bi/2 gays, although definetely it needs more time and resource to implement. But I'd just LOVE to hit on some sexy guy in the next game and he goes like "Sorry but I'm not interested in the opposite sex". All for unrequited love^^. And then I'll make gay PC to romance him

[Xilizhra]

Merrill does as well.

She mentions an undefined "fondness" for Hawke to Aveline once. That doesn't seem to be the same thing (and I've only gotten that line after flirting with her).

Modifié par Xilizhra, 10 mai 2011 - 01:12 .

[mousestalker]

leonia42 wrote...
All human beings are human beings, whether they are gay, white, female, transgendered, smart, lazy, or love ponies.

If you don't love ponies, then you need to be loved more. Everypony ought to love ponies, from simple gratitude, if for no other reason.

[Leonia]

Nodscouter wrote...

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...
A)
Your sexuality does not determine your fertility.  Two heterosexual
people can be barren.  And this day and age there are a dozen ways for
homosexuals to reproduce.

"Larger population growth" is not always optimal...

C)
I'm not going into what determines a person's sexuality; I'm merely
telling you how stupid and insulting it is to say that having sexuality A
vs sexuality B is "an illness".
It reeks of ignorance, intolerance, and shame.

A) Yes, and being barren is something I consider an illness.

WHICH I F*CKING SAID! Read the goddamn post!

C) Ignorance? Why? Intolerance? Why? Shame? This one I really want to know why.

Wait. You consider "being barren an illness" ? Ok, we can clearly not have an intelligent conversation on this matter.

Modifié par leonia42, 10 mai 2011 - 01:13 .

[Mystranna Kelteel]

IanPolaris wrote...
I agree with Corto81 and it bothers me too.  FANTASY worlds should still adhere to verisimiltude to allow for WIlling Suspension of Disbelief.  That means the world should work the way we intuitively think it should unless given a good reason to think otherwise (such as magic).  Having everyone hump Hawke's leg is frankly just dumb and lazy writing.
-Polaris

Ah, the "selective realism" argument. 

"Fantasy can be fantasy until it crosses this arbitrary line of realism that I drew in the sand myself."

What would you do if 4 people you knew were bisexual?  What if they were in the same room even?  That's happened to me a bunch of times and I've never said to myself, "Hey, wait a minute!  You all can't be bi; that defies the arbitrary and meaningless statistics!"

[Nodscouter]

leonia42 wrote...

Nodscouter wrote...

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...
A)
Your sexuality does not determine your fertility.  Two heterosexual
people can be barren.  And this day and age there are a dozen ways for
homosexuals to reproduce.

"Larger population growth" is not always optimal...

C)
I'm not going into what determines a person's sexuality; I'm merely
telling you how stupid and insulting it is to say that having sexuality A
vs sexuality B is "an illness".
It reeks of ignorance, intolerance, and shame.

A) Yes, and being barren is something I consider an illness.

WHICH I F*CKING SAID! Read the goddamn post!

C) Ignorance? Why? Intolerance? Why? Shame? This one I really want to know why.

Wait. You consider "being barren an illness" ? Ok, we can clearly not have an intelligent conversation on this matter.

Fine then, something defective. Whatever you want to call it, it's not functioning properly. It's not doing what's it's supposed to do.

[IanPolaris]

Xilizhra wrote...

Merrill does as well.

She mentions an undefined "fondness" for Hawke to Aveline once. That doesn't seem to be the same thing (and I've only gotten that line after flirting with her).

I think I've seen other lines.  Of course Merrill is shy and Isabella and Anders definately are not.  I also recall that Fenris will sometimes flirt with you when you talk with him.  He says sometime to the effect that he didn't know that Anso would hire such a capable man/beautiful woman to help him, and from the dialog option responses, it's clearly a flirt which you can respond to, nip inthe bud, or artfully ignore.

-Polaris

[Xilizhra]

It's "capable" woman, not beautiful.

[Matchy Pointy]

Once again a post that makes me wish they had just made everyone gay and not bi...

[IanPolaris]

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...
I agree with Corto81 and it bothers me too.  FANTASY worlds should still adhere to verisimiltude to allow for WIlling Suspension of Disbelief.  That means the world should work the way we intuitively think it should unless given a good reason to think otherwise (such as magic).  Having everyone hump Hawke's leg is frankly just dumb and lazy writing.
-Polaris

Ah, the "selective realism" argument. 

"Fantasy can be fantasy until it crosses this arbitrary line of realism that I drew in the sand myself."

What would you do if 4 people you knew were bisexual?  What if they were in the same room even?  That's happened to me a bunch of times and I've never said to myself, "Hey, wait a minute!  You all can't be bi; that defies the arbitrary and meaningless statistics!"

Why are you taking this so personally.  Is there a statistical chance that four random people I know could be bi?  Sure.  It's damned low though and I think you know it.

It breaks immersion to have ALL possible love interests be bi.  That's all I'm saying so please don't get politically correct on me.  I don't have the time or patience to deal with it.

-Polaris

[Leonia]

Nodscouter wrote...
Fine then, something defective. Whatever you want to call it, it's not functioning properly. It's not doing what's it's supposed to do.

And how does this even relate to the thread topic..

Unless you're trying to imply gay people are wrong because they don't function.. gah you know what, I'm going back to the ME forums where the "Is Shepard canonically gay" conversation only comes up once a week instead of every other thread.

So the game has bisexuals in it. Grow up people.

Modifié par leonia42, 10 mai 2011 - 01:18 .

[IanPolaris]

Xilizhra wrote...

It's "capable" woman, not beautiful.

Very well, but it's still clearly a flirt (as the responses clearly indicate).

-Polaris

[The dead fish]

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

Ah, the "selective realism" argument. 

Ah yes " Elves can lay eggs with their ass, and Warden can fly in the sky,  into the world of Dragon Age, because there are dragons, because there is magic, because it's fantasy. "

Modifié par Sylvianus, 10 mai 2011 - 01:20 .

[Nordic Warlord]

Fiddles_stix wrote...

That puts it on the same level as crime, unless the scary old ladies in nursing homes just mounted a coup I'm pretty sure homosexuality is culturally acceptable.

Yes, it is culturally acceptable. And still it is a sexual deviation.

[IanPolaris]

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...
What would you do if 4 people you knew were bisexual?  What if they were in the same room even?  That's happened to me a bunch of times and I've never said to myself, "Hey, wait a minute!  You all can't be bi; that defies the arbitrary and meaningless statistics!"

I will respond further.  DA2 is a GAME and a GAME should not highlight something that should be quite literrally a billion to one odds against (and yes having all four people that might be interested in you be bi is almost literally by any data I've seen almost a billion to one shot).

-Polaris

[Nodscouter]

Compliments doesn't necessarily have to imply flirting mate.
And by the way, if you wanted it to be realistic, then you know, don't buy fantasy games? Because, the odds of there being magic in the real world are a lot less than a million to one.

leonia42 wrote...

Nodscouter wrote...
Fine then, something defective. Whatever you want to call it, it's not functioning properly. It's not doing what's it's supposed to do.

And how does this even relate to the thread topic..

Unless you're trying to imply gay people are wrong because they don't function.. gah you know what, I'm going back to the ME forums where the "Is Shepard canonically gay" conversation only comes up once a week instead of every other thread.

So the game has bisexuals in it. Grow up people.

Did I say I was opposed to the game having bi's? No I did not. And you brought it up.
And that is what I'm implying yes, but not in the way you think.

Modifié par Nodscouter, 10 mai 2011 - 01:21 .

[kaiki01]

mousestalker wrote...

leonia42 wrote...
All human beings are human beings, whether they are gay, white, female, transgendered, smart, lazy, or love ponies.

If you don't love ponies, then you need to be loved more. Everypony ought to love ponies, from simple gratitude, if for no other reason.

Lets keep it on topic www.youtube.com/watch

^_-

(I couldn't find a DA vid, but ME is still Bioware, right, right?)

Modifié par kaiki01, 10 mai 2011 - 01:21 .

[Mystranna Kelteel]

Nodscouter wrote...

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...
A) Your sexuality does not determine your fertility.  Two heterosexual people can be barren.  And this day and age there are a dozen ways for homosexuals to reproduce.
"Larger population growth" is not always optimal...
C) I'm not going into what determines a person's sexuality; I'm merely telling you how stupid and insulting it is to say that having sexuality A vs sexuality B is "an illness".
It reeks of ignorance, intolerance, and shame.

A) Yes, and being barren is something I consider an illness.

WHICH I F*CKING SAID! Read the goddamn post!

C) Ignorance? Why? Intolerance? Why? Shame? This one I really want to know why.

I read your "goddamn" post.  You said heterosexuality was optimal, as it leads to larger population growth.  You then went on to say that larger population growth is not always optimal.

So, heterosexuality is "optimal" because it facilitates something, which is itself not always optimal.  And add to that the plain and simple fact that homosexuals can, and do, reproduce and maybe you can see why this whole argument of yours makes no sense.

I deem your opinion ignorant for the reasons I've described.  Saying homosexuality is an illness makes no sense, especially with the reasoning you've put forth.
As for intolerance and shame, well, that's the vibe I'm getting from you.  You seem to think you have an illness when you do not, and I can not deem why you would think that way unless you were ashamed of your "condition".  Especially since this "condition" has no negative effects.

Modifié par Mystranna Kelteel, 10 mai 2011 - 01:21 .

[MG800]

Nodscouter wrote...
I'm not afraid of myself, so I'm not homophobic. I'm also not insulting myself, I'm quite arrogant you see.
But still, it's a genetic condition I guess you could say, for reasons already explained. Something is wrong with us, and one day we'll find a cure. But that doesn't mean I think we're abominations. I think we're normal people, just born a little differently.

And why should "we"? If you don't hate yourself for that, why would you want to change?

Nodscouter wrote...
Deviance from the norm. Around 97-98% of the world is straight.

My, you're a quite informed pal. Care to share you source of knowledge?

[IanPolaris]

Sylvianus wrote...

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

Ah, the "selective realism" argument. 

Ah yes " Elves can lay eggs with their ass, and Warden can fly in the sky,  into the world of Dragon Age, because there are dragons, because there is magic. "

Indeed.  Now if Elves were defined as laying eggs to start with, and Wardens were stated to have wings as part of the world, that would be different, but just because a world is magical doesn't mean you can make up the rules as you go.  That's where verisimilitude comes in.  Unless we are given a good reason to think otherwise (magic or express lore), then the world should work pretty much the way we expect in real life.  That's what enables us to immerse ourselves in the world.

-Polaris

[blauregen]

If we would consider sexual attraction to partners of the same sex an illness, we should probably look at the symptoms that are detrimental to the 'ill' person. Now, from my experience, homosexuals aren't especially unhappy or restricted in their function as social beings. They themselves seem not to exhibit any symptoms that are detrimental to their wellbeing.

On the other hand, there are people, who show symptoms that are detrimental to their wellbeing related to homosexuality. Specifically, they seem to experience some form of anxiety when proposed by someone of the same sex, who is attracted to them. This would make homosexuality a curious 'illness', because it seems to exhibit symptoms in other people.

[kaiki01]

MG800 wrote...

Nodscouter wrote...
I'm not afraid of myself, so I'm not homophobic. I'm also not insulting myself, I'm quite arrogant you see.
But still, it's a genetic condition I guess you could say, for reasons already explained. Something is wrong with us, and one day we'll find a cure. But that doesn't mean I think we're abominations. I think we're normal people, just born a little differently.

And why should "we"? If you don't hate yourself for that, why would you want to change?

Nodscouter wrote...
Deviance from the norm. Around 97-98% of the world is straight.

My, you're a quite informed pal. Care to share you source of knowledge?

UCLA has a comparable statistic in a 2011 survey www3.law.ucla.edu/williamsinstitute/pdf/How-many-people-are-LGBT-Final.pdf