534 réponses à ce sujet

[Wulfram]

Hawke seems like he does 5 impossible things before breakfast, I don't find merely improbable things a problem. Certainly it seems preferable than some people being left with only 1 romantic option.

Of course, it's also possible that the sort of people who go around fighting demons aren't representative of the population as a whole.

[Nodscouter]

MG800 wrote...

Nodscouter wrote...
I'm not afraid of myself, so I'm not homophobic. I'm also not insulting myself, I'm quite arrogant you see.
But still, it's a genetic condition I guess you could say, for reasons already explained. Something is wrong with us, and one day we'll find a cure. But that doesn't mean I think we're abominations. I think we're normal people, just born a little differently.

And why should "we"? If you don't hate yourself for that, why would you want to change?

Overweight people might not hate themself for it and may still wish they weren't overweight.

MG800 wrote...

Nodscouter wrote...
Deviance from the norm. Around 97-98% of the world is straight.

My, you're a quite informed pal. Care to share you source of knowledge?

My my, you're quite good at not reading my earlier posts. I suggest you try that.

Modifié par Nodscouter, 10 mai 2011 - 01:24 .

[The dead fish]

Dragon Age has limits and rules that define his world. Dragon Age has verisimilitude with reality at different times. Dragon Age, is not Peter Pan or Alice in Wonderland. No, you can not do anything in Dragon age.

[Mystranna Kelteel]

IanPolaris wrote...
I will respond further.  DA2 is a GAME and a GAME should not highlight something that should be quite literrally a billion to one odds against (and yes having all four people that might be interested in you be bi is almost literally by any data I've seen almost a billion to one shot).
-Polaris

What? Really?  A billion to one? XD

I also enjoy this little reversal in logic.  This fantasy game, as a game, should not highlight something you deem
"fantastical"?

I wonder why you draw this line in the sand for yourself.  I do wonder if maybe you're lying when you say that you have no problem with bisexuality or homosexuality, as the idea that 4 people being bisexual breaking your immersion in a game where 400 qunari can be identical, magic can create a laser light show explosion, and a magical rock can propel a woman 7 stories into the air.

If Anders and Merrill had a dialogue where they said "I magicked myself bisexual" you'd be fine with it, right? :happy:

[Nodscouter]

Don't bother with him. He's obviously decided exactly what is logical and realistic in his mind and has decided to ignore all else.

Sylvianus wrote...

Dragon Age has limits and rules that define his world. Dragon Age has verisimilitude with reality at different times. Dragon Age, is not Peter Pan or Alice in Wonderland. No, you can not do anything in Dragon age.

Entering into a world that's defined by emotions and thoughts is possible however.
But BISEXUALS? NOT IN MY GAME HURR-DUUR!

Modifié par Nodscouter, 10 mai 2011 - 01:29 .

[IanPolaris]

Wulfram wrote...

Hawke seems like he does 5 impossible things before breakfast, I don't find merely improbable things a problem. Certainly it seems preferable than some people being left with only 1 romantic option.

Of course, it's also possible that the sort of people who go around fighting demons aren't representative of the population as a whole.

Hawke isn't doing "anything".  Having four people you randomly come across that might be interested in you just HAPPEN to all be Bi is literally a billion to one chance.  That's more than merely "improbable" which is why I complain about lazy programming and a lack of verisimilitude.  I am in no way making a judgement about sexuality otherwise either morally, ethically, or biologically.

-Polaris

[IanPolaris]

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...
I will respond further.  DA2 is a GAME and a GAME should not highlight something that should be quite literrally a billion to one odds against (and yes having all four people that might be interested in you be bi is almost literally by any data I've seen almost a billion to one shot).
-Polaris

What? Really?  A billion to one? XD

I also enjoy this little reversal in logic.  This fantasy game, as a game, should not highlight something you deem
"fantastical"?

I wonder why you draw this line in the sand for yourself.  I do wonder if maybe you're lying when you say that you have no problem with bisexuality or homosexuality, as the idea that 4 people being bisexual breaking your immersion in a game where 400 qunari can be identical, magic can create a laser light show explosion, and a magical rock can propel a woman 7 stories into the air.

If Anders and Merrill had a dialogue where they said "I magicked myself bisexual" you'd be fine with it, right? :happy:

It's not a rerversal of anything.  The odds are so damned small that it threatens WIlling Suspension of Disbelief.  Honestly you're taking Political Correctness TOO DAMN FAR.  I have no problem with one or two LIs being bisexual.  Having them ALL be Hawke-sexual is grossly unrealistic and lazy.

-Polaris

[Nodscouter]

In the real world! Why do you have such a goddamn difficulty accepting that Thedas does not exist in the real world? It's not the goddamn earth! It's not even the same universe!

[Xilizhra]

Wait. Even if Nodscouter's 2% factoid is true, that'd be... one chance in 625000. Not nearly the same thing, especially since the sample size probably isn't representative of the general population.

[The dead fish]

Nodscouter wrote...

Don't bother with him. He's obviously decided exactly what is logical and realistic in his mind and has decided to ignore all else.

Sylvianus wrote...

Dragon Age has limits and rules that define his world. Dragon Age has verisimilitude with reality at different times. Dragon Age, is not Peter Pan or Alice in Wonderland. No, you can not do anything in Dragon age.

Entering into a world that's defined by emotions and thoughts is possible however.
But BISEXUALS? NOT IN MY GAME HURR-DUUR!

?

Mmh ? Who's said that ?

It was just to answer to those who say we can do anything because it's fantasy.

No. Wardens can not walk on their hand  because the dev's decided it.

No dragons can not produce candy with their ass, no the people of Thedas can not use tanks and planes.

But on topic, yes, "They' re all bi, it's ridiculous and silly. "

Modifié par Sylvianus, 10 mai 2011 - 01:35 .

[Mystranna Kelteel]

IanPolaris wrote...
 the world should work pretty much the way we expect in real life.  That's what enables us to immerse ourselves in the world.
-Polaris

IanPolaris wrote...
Why are you taking this so personally.  Is there a statistical chance that four random people I know could be bi? Sure.  It's damned low though and I think you know it.
-Polaris

Given these two quotes, I don't see why you have a problem with it.

The world should "pretty much" work the way we expect it to work, and with 4 bisexuals the writers are giving you something you yourself deem statistically possible.

So your argument boils entirely down to your own biased expectations.

[IanPolaris]

Nodscouter wrote...

Don't bother with him. He's obviously decided exactly what is logical and realistic in his mind and has decided to ignore all else.

Sylvianus wrote...

Dragon Age has limits and rules that define his world. Dragon Age has verisimilitude with reality at different times. Dragon Age, is not Peter Pan or Alice in Wonderland. No, you can not do anything in Dragon age.

Entering into a world that's defined by emotions and thoughts is possible however.
But BISEXUALS? NOT IN MY GAME HURR-DUUR!

Point.  Missing it.  Neither Sylvianus (at least he seems not to) nor myself have anything against homosexuality or bisexuality in the game or in life.  My compaint (and his) has ntohing to do with it.  Nor it is fair or accurate (in fact it's damned unfair and borders on a strawman) to claim that we are saying there should be NO bisexuals especially since I came out on the record and had no issue with Isabella being bi.

What we ARE saying is that having four random people that might be interested in you that HAPPEN to be bisexual is literally a billion to one shot and as such violates the verisimilitude of the world.  Hell, your own statistics back me up on this!

-Polaris

[IanPolaris]

Nodscouter wrote...

Don't bother with him. He's obviously decided exactly what is logical and realistic in his mind and has decided to ignore all else.

Sylvianus wrote...

Dragon Age has limits and rules that define his world. Dragon Age has verisimilitude with reality at different times. Dragon Age, is not Peter Pan or Alice in Wonderland. No, you can not do anything in Dragon age.

Entering into a world that's defined by emotions and thoughts is possible however.
But BISEXUALS? NOT IN MY GAME HURR-DUUR!

Point.  Missing it.  Neither Sylvianus (at least he seems not to) nor myself have anything against homosexuality or bisexuality in the game or in life.  My compaint (and his) has ntohing to do with it.  Nor it is fair or accurate (in fact it's damned unfair and borders on a strawman) to claim that we are saying there should be NO bisexuals especially since I came out on the record and had no issue with Isabella being bi.

What we ARE saying is that having four random people that might be interested in you that HAPPEN to be bisexual is literally a billion to one shot and as such violates the verisimilitude of the world.  Hell, your own statistics back me up on this!

-Polaris

[MG800]

Nodscouter wrote...

MG800 wrote...

Nodscouter wrote...
I'm not afraid of myself, so I'm not homophobic. I'm also not insulting myself, I'm quite arrogant you see.
But still, it's a genetic condition I guess you could say, for reasons already explained. Something is wrong with us, and one day we'll find a cure. But that doesn't mean I think we're abominations. I think we're normal people, just born a little differently.

And why should "we"? If you don't hate yourself for that, why would you want to change?

Overweight people might not hate themself for it and may still wish they weren't overweight.

MG800 wrote...

Nodscouter wrote...
Deviance from the norm. Around 97-98% of the world is straight.

My, you're a quite informed pal. Care to share you source of knowledge?

My my, you're quite good at not reading my earlier posts. I suggest you try that.

Hmm, intresting point. But overweight people who don't hate themselves for it,  not care to change it either. It takes strong determination. Besides, how being overweight, and bi are comparable? How can you be "more bi" or less?

And dear God, I must had missed the post when you linked it. 
Thank you, kaiki01 for posting it.

Modifié par MG800, 10 mai 2011 - 01:39 .

[Nodscouter]

Well, the difference is that you can't change your sexuality (Yet). Other than that, I think my argument's still valid.
Being overweight and bi/****** are comparable in this particular argument.
It's not like I'm trying to form a connection between bisexuality and being overweight

IanPolaris wrote...

Nodscouter wrote...

Don't bother with him. He's obviously decided exactly what is logical and realistic in his mind and has decided to ignore all else.

Sylvianus wrote...
Dragon Age has limits and rules that define his world. Dragon Age has verisimilitude with reality at different times. Dragon Age, is not Peter Pan or Alice in Wonderland. No, you can not do anything in Dragon age.

Entering into a world that's defined by emotions and thoughts is possible however.
But BISEXUALS? NOT IN MY GAME HURR-DUUR!

Point.  Missing it.  Neither Sylvianus (at least he seems not to) nor myself have anything against homosexuality or bisexuality in the game or in life.  My compaint (and his) has ntohing to do with it.  Nor it is fair or accurate (in fact it's damned unfair and borders on a strawman) to claim that we are saying there should be NO bisexuals especially since I came out on the record and had no issue with Isabella being bi.

What we ARE saying is that having four random people that might be interested in you that HAPPEN to be bisexual is literally a billion to one shot and as such violates the verisimilitude of the world.  Hell, your own statistics back me up on this!

-Polaris

What you ARE doing is taking real-world statistics and applying it to a world of Fantasy. My own statistics (Not techincally my own, but fine, I'll roll with it) was for the real world, they people conducting the survery didn't go to Bioware and ask ''So about how many percent of people in Thedas are straight?''. Both of our statistics are valid for this world. They are not valid for Thedas.

Modifié par Nodscouter, 10 mai 2011 - 01:39 .

[Xilizhra]

It isn't literally a billion to one shot. It isn't even close.

[IanPolaris]

Xilizhra wrote...

Wait. Even if Nodscouter's 2% factoid is true, that'd be... one chance in 625000. Not nearly the same thing, especially since the sample size probably isn't representative of the general population.

Fine.  One in 10 million.

That's not 'statistically possible"  It's statistically ludicrous which is the entire point.  That's not being biased.  It's calling out lazy programming and writing for what it is...although given the rather obnoxious postings from the GBLT posters here, I can better see why Bioware did it.

Hint:  Sometimes being too much of an activist makes enemies that weren't there previously.  Just saying....

-Polaris

[Leonia]

But it's not impossible. A billion to one is still a possibility. If homosexuality/bisexuality isn't a problem for the player or the character that player is playing as, does it matter that your 4 potential LIs are all bisexual?

[IanPolaris]

Xilizhra wrote...

It isn't literally a billion to one shot. It isn't even close.

Fine. It's a bit more than 1 in 5 million.  It still backs up my point.

-Polaris

[Nodscouter]

Well, you ignore my post. How f*cking convenient:

Nodscouter wrote...
What you ARE doing is taking real-world statistics and applying it to a world of Fantasy. My own statistics (Not techincally my own, but fine, I'll roll with it) was for the real world, they people conducting the survery didn't go to Bioware and ask ''So about how many percent of people in Thedas are straight?''. Both of our statistics are valid for this world. They are not valid for Thedas.

[The dead fish]

@Nodscouter

I think you overreact.

I have always defended homosexuality or bisexuality before the release of the game. It is the system that's stupid.

Your accusations are baseless if you read quietly and calmly what I write, and the same for Ian....

Modifié par Sylvianus, 10 mai 2011 - 01:42 .

[IanPolaris]

Nodscouter wrote...

What you ARE doing is taking real-world statistics and applying it to a world of Fantasy. My own statistics (Not techincally my own, but fine, I'll roll with it) was for the real world, they people conducting the survery didn't go to Bioware and ask ''So about how many percent of people in Thedas are straight?''. Both of our statistics are valid for this world. They are not valid for Thedas.

Point.  Missing it.  When you play in a fantasy world, you assume that unless you are told otherwise (such as magic) that the people, and physical laws of the world are the same as the world we live in.  This helps us immerse ourselves in the fantasy world.  This is what is meant by verisimilitude.  That means that the same basic statistics that apply in the real world are generally valid for Thedas...and that makes having four bi companions (but only for Hawke apparently) be so unlikely as to threaten suspension of disbelief (whether it's one in five million or one in a billion, it's TOO DAMNED LOW to be accepted as believable).  That's the point.

If it were true that most (or even a large minority) of the population of Thedas WERE bi, then we'd see completely different inheritance patterns, marriage patterns, noble linage pattersn and much more....and we do NOT.

-Polaris

[Warheadz]

I understand that they want the romances to be available to everyone, but in this game it just felt very artificial and "gamey" that EVERYONE wanted to do Hawke, regardless of Hawke's gender. I'd rather have plenty of options for all sides, than have an open buffet. But just my opinion.
I'd be fine with it if there were 2 straight options and 6 gay options, as long as it doesn't feel, like I said, artificial and "gamey".

And I am straight. And this was just my opinion.

[Nodscouter]

Sylvianus wrote...

@Nodscouter

I think you overreact.

I have always defended homosexuality or bisexuality before the release of the game. It is the system that's stupid.

Your accusations are baseless if you read quietly and calmly what I write, and the same for Ian....

I have! Your argument is that real world statistics should apply to Thedas. Which you clearly can't say!
And don't make this ''Oh, look at me, I don't disapprove of ******/bisexuality. And you're bi, so you should clearly be on my side'' argument, it doesn't work.

Modifié par Nodscouter, 10 mai 2011 - 01:44 .

[IanPolaris]

leonia42 wrote...

But it's not impossible. A billion to one is still a possibility. If homosexuality/bisexuality isn't a problem for the player or the character that player is playing as, does it matter that your 4 potential LIs are all bisexual?

It's so damn low that it defies any reasonable belief.  That's a problem in a fantasy world.

-Polaris