534 réponses à ce sujet

[IanPolaris]

Nodscouter wrote...

Why? Why do we have to have huge differences because of it? I see no reason to suggest this would be true.
And once more, DA2 proves to us that Bisexauls are far more common in Thedas than in the real world. Just because it misses a codex entry doesn't mean it's not true (I think it might be a bit embarrasing for the developers to write a codex entry explaining how sexuality is different than in the real world. Plus, pretty wasteful)

Please show me any game lore source that explicitly states that bisexuality is more common in Thedas than in our world.  Just one.

-Polaris

[moilami]

mousestalker wrote...

The point isn't that it is improbable that the four people in a certain poster's bedroom are bi. The point is that it is improbable that there would be more than one person (regardless of sexual orientation) in that bedroom.

I would participate on this fight but Mousestalker's avatar says to me better just go play some computer game. I don't want to pwn ponies 

[KnightofPhoenix]

Alistairlover94 wrote...
Or Templars performing backflips with heavy armor...

It's the lyrium.

[IanPolaris]

Wulfram wrote...

All odds of 1 in 6,250,000 mean is Hawke won the lottery

Which is a pretty damned unbelievable basis for a game...which is the point.

-Polaris

[Mystranna Kelteel]

IanPolaris wrote...
We are asked to accept without explaination four completely different people that all just happen to run into Hawke and all just happen to be bi.  There is nothing in the game lore that even suggests that the rate of sexuality is any different in Thedas than our own world.  If that were so, then we should expect to see large scale cultural differences and inheriance differences (at minimum) to account for this and we do not.
=Polaris

I can not describe how amusing I find this bit of "logic". XD

I've had this happen to me in real life.  You probably have too and didn't even know it, since, you know, real people usually don't advertise their sexuality.

See, I think your problem is that you assume the situation with Hawke and her followers in Kirkwall spells out a norm for the rest of Thedas.  If this literally happened in real life (or something equivalent) nobody would challenge or question it.  But since this is a game and you have your biased expectations, no, it won't fly.  It's unrealistic and immersion-shattering. :innocent:

[Cutlass Jack]

IanPolaris wrote...

I won't argue this.  If you go back and read my prior posts on this thread, I outright stated that of all the issues I have with DA2, this one doesn't even come in the top 10...that there were other issues (such as some you mention) that violate verisimilitude far worse...but that doesn't mean there isn't a problem.

-Polaris

There isn't a problem. Allowing the player more choice to play the game as they wish is never a problem in an RPG. The problem was that the game didn't have enough meaningful choices.

This was a choice that wouldn't affect your game unless you wanted it to.

[Russalka]

Because shut up.

[Faroth]

I admit I was a bit put off by this. It really made the companions seem more like a game NPC and less like a unique character. It also makes for one less reason for repeat play throughs, imo.

[lobi]

Oh look! a Rainbow!

[KnightofPhoenix]

Cutlass Jack wrote...
There isn't a problem. Allowing the player more choice to play the game as they wish is never a problem in an RPG. 

I think restricting some choices instead of making it  an open buffet to be more meaningful and realistic. But yea I wouldn't exactly call it a problem. More like a thing that could be more refined. 

What I would dislike however is backtracking certain characters and making them bi for no reason. Like say Morrigan.

[Cutlass Jack]

Faroth wrote...

I admit I was a bit put off by this. It really made the companions seem more like a game NPC and less like a unique character. It also makes for one less reason for repeat play throughs, imo.

I felt the opposite. Gave more reason for repeat playthroughs to me. I could see romances I missed on the first playthrough while playing on a body that looks completely different than my previous one.

[IanPolaris]

Cutlass Jack wrote...

IanPolaris wrote...

I won't argue this.  If you go back and read my prior posts on this thread, I outright stated that of all the issues I have with DA2, this one doesn't even come in the top 10...that there were other issues (such as some you mention) that violate verisimilitude far worse...but that doesn't mean there isn't a problem.

-Polaris

There isn't a problem. Allowing the player more choice to play the game as they wish is never a problem in an RPG. The problem was that the game didn't have enough meaningful choices.

This was a choice that wouldn't affect your game unless you wanted it to.

Disagree.  When a "choice" removes the depth and uniqueness of an NPC then you are in effect reducing meaningful choice.  Sure each Hawke has four LIs, but by making the romances pretty much the same no matter what, you destroy replayability (and DA2 does that a lot frankly).  More is not always better when it comes to option.  The options have to be meaningful options and having everyone be "cookie-cutter Hawke-sexuals" doesn't do that.

-Polaris

[Sylvianus]

It's simple. Sexuality is something that is very common in reality, any game which entered into with our world.

In life there are gays, bisexuals and homosexuals. Rule that everyone is bi, seems like the easy way out, and breaks all immersion.

By destroying sexual beings, we made ​​clones, machines that do not differentiate between them. They have no history, no explanations, they are what they are for reasons outside of history. I repeat, outside of story. This is stupid. They lose their uniqueness.

Hawke flying in Thedas, I will have the same reaction. / facepalm

And those who say that sexuality is not part of a character, should review their lessons of philosophy.

Modifié par Sylvianus, 10 mai 2011 - 02:11 .

[Nodscouter]

And those who say that sexuality defines your exact personality, should probably look outside stereotyped gays in movies.

IanPolaris wrote...

Nodscouter wrote...

Why? Why do we have to have huge differences because of it? I see no reason to suggest this would be true.
And once more, DA2 proves to us that Bisexauls are far more common in Thedas than in the real world. Just because it misses a codex entry doesn't mean it's not true (I think it might be a bit embarrasing for the developers to write a codex entry explaining how sexuality is different than in the real world. Plus, pretty wasteful)

Please show me any game lore source that explicitly states that bisexuality is more common in Thedas than in our world.  Just one.

-Polaris

Please show me anywhere where I said there was a codex entry for that. Just one.
My point was, if 6 out of 9 romance options are bi, what do you think is the largest sexuality in Thedas?

Modifié par Nodscouter, 10 mai 2011 - 02:11 .

[Russalka]

I think there are far more unlikely occurrences in the storyline than every love interest being bisexual.

[IanPolaris]

Nodscouter wrote...

Please show me anywhere where I said there was a codex entry for that. Just one.
My point was, if 6 out of 9 romance options are bi, what do you think is the largest sexuality in Thedas?

Gameplay mechanics does not game lore make.  Show me IN THE GAME LORE that shows that sexuality is different in Thedas than IRL.  Until you can (explicitly mind you), the default assumption is that it's the same as in our own world.  This applies to ALL fictional worlds.

-Polaris

[moilami]

Russalka wrote...

Because shut up.

That was a very good music video. The language used in it should definetly be preserved.

[IanPolaris]

Russalka wrote...

I think there are far more unlikely occurrences in the storyline than every love interest being bisexual.

Quite true which is why I think that some of the GBLT cheerleaders are making a moutain out of a molehill.  I think it violates immersion.  I find it annoying (no worse than that), and I've already said it doesn't even rank in the top ten of my beefs with the game...but it is on the list.

-Polaris

[Mystranna Kelteel]

Sylvianus wrote...
In life there are gays, bisexuals and homosexuals. Rule that everyone is bi, seems like the easy way out, and breaks all immersion.

They aren't all bi.  Four people are bi.  Four.
And even then they're only explicitly bi when you meta-game or try to romance them all.  It shouldn't break immersion any more than knowing there are other Hawke genders or classes in other people's games.

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
What I would dislike however is backtracking certain characters and making them bi for no reason. Like say Morrigan.

I've seen plenty of examples of women who would define themselves as straight falling for a woman, even if it didn't work out in the end.

I think all of you people are putting way too much importance on sexuality as a solid, unchangeable thing.  It's not.  It's fluid and there are no definites or concrete rules.
And the idea that it is a defining personality trait is downright silly.  How would Morrigan have been different if she slept with a female Warden?

[Nodscouter]

IanPolaris wrote...

Nodscouter wrote...

Please show me anywhere where I said there was a codex entry for that. Just one.
My point was, if 6 out of 9 romance options are bi, what do you think is the largest sexuality in Thedas?

Gameplay mechanics does not game lore make.  Show me IN THE GAME LORE that shows that sexuality is different in Thedas than IRL.  Until you can (explicitly mind you), the default assumption is that it's the same as in our own world.  This applies to ALL fictional worlds.

-Polaris

Righty, you're content to ignore proof right in front of your eyes. Good to know. I can't convince you if you won't let yourself be shown another way.

[Icy Magebane]

It's because otherwise people would complain that it's unfair they can't get with whatever LI they want to and only have one option. That's it. I just wish this system wasn't designed to automatically make Hawke bi as well. I mean, it's one thing to have Anders flirt with a male Hawke, but every other conversation, there's a damned flirt icon with Fenris... like it's always on Hawke's mind or something. Whatever. It's best to just ignore it completely and let the people who like the option have their fun.

Edit:  And yes, it is immersion breaking to have the majority of the party members, as well as every LI swing both ways.  That's completely absurd, but justifiable if it's in your interest to have everyone around you be gay.

Modifié par Icy Magebane, 10 mai 2011 - 02:27 .

[IanPolaris]

Nodscouter wrote...

Righty, you're content to ignore proof right in front of your eyes. Good to know. I can't convince you if you won't let yourself be shown another way.

What proof?  In actuality the campanions we are given are not a random sample.  They are preselected and designed by Bioware.  Even if they were a random sample, you of all people should know that you can't prove anything satistically with a sample size as small as the one we are given....certainly not something as fundamental as how sexuality works in Thedas.

We are given ZERO, NADA, ZIP evidence that people in Thedas (at least when it comes to sexuality) are any different than people in our own world...and it would be very easy for the Devs to say differently...but they never do.

As such, what I said stands.

-Polaris

[Herr Uhl]

Mystranna Kelteel wrote...

And the idea that it is a defining personality trait is downright silly.  How would Morrigan have been different if she slept with a female Warden?

She'd sleep with a female warden? Sexuality is a character trait.

On a sidenote, I don't mind the bi-ness.

[Cutlass Jack]

IanPolaris wrote...

Disagree.  When a "choice" removes the depth and uniqueness of an NPC then you are in effect reducing meaningful choice.  Sure each Hawke has four LIs, but by making the romances pretty much the same no matter what, you destroy replayability (and DA2 does that a lot frankly).  More is not always better when it comes to option.  The options have to be meaningful options and having everyone be "cookie-cutter Hawke-sexuals" doesn't do that.

-Polaris

Methinks you protest too much.

You can get four playthroughs without repeating a romance (five if you count Sebastian). Furthermore each LI has both a Friendmance and a Rivalmance that play out quite differently. That's alot of replayability without forcing gender restrictions on the player.