109 réponses à ce sujet

[Obro]

javierabegazo wrote...

I'm pretty sure that all the canon we'll get is "A human named Commander Shepard stopped the Reapers."

In anycase, there's plenty of space for BioWare to work with in the Mass Effect Universe without them having to ever have to establish what happened in the trilogy, i.e. Prequels, etc

Well **** I guess that there is not "I ****ed up galaxy get's purged" ending

My excitement just dropped hard.

[DRSH]

I give to you Bioware's Canon which has never ever been ever seen before ever:

Happy now? you got your Canon. Now go play with it.

[Augoeides]

DRSH wrote...

Canon Shepard is a soldier with no biotics... this explains why in shadow broker he doesn't uses biotics to save himself from a certain fall. Other than that... why does it matter? my shepard is my shepard, your shepard, is your shepard... what's the big deal?

Shadow Broker clearly occurs within the canon of your Shepard, with the appropriate time and money, I assume Adepts, Vanguards and Sentinels would have had a seperate scene where biotics played a role. Mind you, you also have to account for the possibility that any Shepard has to be considered potentially a biotic by the fact that he can have biotics as a advanced training ability (assuming gameplay = reality) but unless he has a biotic ability then until that point Shepard cannot be considered a biotic due to it not being expressly stated.

tl;dr: Shadow Broker cannot be used to establish that  a Canon Shepard has no biotics. That scene simply occurs that way because it takes a lot of time, energy and money (i'd assume) to script a scene to respond to the variables of Shepard's abilities.

[General_Minus]

they can't have any novels or short stories dealing with squadmates or LI as that would establish Canonitcy

[Augoeides]

General_Minus wrote...

they can't have any novels or short stories dealing with squadmates or LI as that would establish Canonitcy

So they probably won't reuse characters with specific roles to the plot that can die or can be LIs or have decision making quests attached to them.

[DRSH]

[quote]Augoeides wrote...

[quote]That scene simply occurs that way because it takes a lot of time, energy and money (i'd assume) to script a scene to respond to the variables of Shepard's abilities. [/quote]
Bioware has made tons of games with tons of scenes with tons of variables... a scene with Shepard using biotics is nothing for Bioware... ... another example: on Noveria in Mass Effect 1, Shepard meets Matsuo & they all draw guns. If you have Liara with you she glows blue from her biotic abilities (not sure if Kaidan does this too... don't remember), but Shepard won't glow blue even if he's an adept , therefore another example of why canon Shepard would be a soldier with no biotics... but this isn't a concern for me... because i don't give a damn if there is a canon cause... mhm... my shep's my shep like urs is urs. I was just stating random facts from several cutscenes... that's it.

[ElitePinecone]

General_Minus wrote...

they can't have any novels or short stories dealing with squadmates or LI as that would establish Canonitcy

So far the novels have involved characters that aren't (to a large extent) featured in the main game and aren't affected by Shepard. It's worked fairly well so far, with only vague references to 'Commander Shepard', and the characters getting on with their own stories. 

Like others have said, the possibilities for creating stories in the ME universe that reference the events of Shepard's arc without defining a 'canon' character are almost endless. Then there's always the possibility of importing events from ME3 into any future games, if that's the path Bioware wants to go down. 

[General_Minus]

[quote]DRSH wrote...

[quote]Augoeides wrote...

[quote]That scene simply occurs that way because it takes a lot of time, energy and money (i'd assume) to script a scene to respond to the variables of Shepard's abilities. [/quote]
Bioware has made tons of games with tons of scenes with tons of variables... a scene with Shepard using biotics is nothing for Bioware... ... another example: on Noveria in Mass Effect 1, Shepard meets Matsuo & they all draw guns. If you have Liara with you she glows blue from her biotic abilities (not sure if Kaidan does this too... don't remember), but Shepard won't glow blue even if he's an adept , therefore another example of why canon Shepard would be a soldier with no biotics... but this isn't a concern for me... because i don't give a damn if there is a canon cause... mhm... my shep's my shep like urs is urs. I was just stating random facts from several cutscenes... that's it.

[/quote]

Evidence found conclude Shepard is NOT biotic. Therefore players with biotic shepard are "non-canon" and are only in the players only story, not the canon story

[DeadLetterBox]

To be fair, Kaidan is definitely biotic and never uses his biotics in cutscenes.  

Modifié par DeadLetterBox, 10 mai 2011 - 10:53 .

[Augoeides]

DRSH wrote...

Augoeides wrote...

That scene simply occurs that way because it takes a lot of time, energy and money (i'd assume) to script a scene to respond to the variables of Shepard's abilities.

Bioware has made tons of games with tons of scenes with tons of variables... a scene with Shepard using biotics is nothing for Bioware... ... another example: on Noveria in Mass Effect 1, Shepard meets Matsuo & they all draw guns. If you have Liara with you she glows blue from her biotic abilities (not sure if Kaidan does this too... don't remember), but Shepard won't glow blue even if he's an adept , therefore another example of why canon Shepard would be a soldier with no biotics... but this isn't a concern for me... because i don't give a damn if there is a canon cause... mhm... my shep's my shep like urs is urs. I was just stating random facts from several cutscenes... that's it.

Giving Liara variables in cut scenes would be slightly easier considering she is always and will always be a biotic. A falling scene and am standing there and glowing blue scene are two very different things. The point is, no matter who else is there, Liara will glow, but to check fi Shepard needs to glow the game would need to check if he is Adept, Vanguard or Sentinel: if Yes: Glow. if No: Check for Biotic bonus talent If Yes: glow if not: no glow. That's a lot of of extra processes for some blue glow. 

Now take those extra steps and apply them to  the falling scene, we need a minimum of two different scenes to account for the biotic variable, but there must be other abilities that could change that scene as well! It's simply much simpler to keep one scene that can be universally applied to all Shepards because it lacks distinction than to formulate all kinds of various scenes in different scenarios to account for at least, biotic potential.

I'd prefer they put resources to polishing gameplay, and environments, and maybe implementing my pet agenda (sig) than offering a little ( or a lot) of variation in the "action" sequences.

Modifié par Augoeides, 10 mai 2011 - 10:58 .

[General_Minus]

DeadLetterBox wrote...



To be fair, Kaidan is definitely biotic and never uses his biotics in cutscenes.  

He was an under-developed character unlike the rest

[Ieldra]

General_Minus wrote...

Obro wrote...

I think they stated before that there really is no canon or something like that.

Impossible. There has to be a canon for the story to continue after ME3 or there to be a spin-off

(1) ME3 will be the end of this story
(2) Any other stories playing in the same universe will refer to Shepard in so general terms that any Shepard fits the picture.

This problem is minor compared to other continuity problems that can arise from specific scenarios. Consider the possibility of wiped-out species. For reasons unrelated to Shepard, it will be very hard to place any other stories in the ME universe's timeline after the events of ME3. Possibly they'll need a canon, but defining Shepard is not necessary.

[DeadLetterBox]

General_Minus wrote...

DeadLetterBox wrote...



To be fair, Kaidan is definitely biotic and never uses his biotics in cutscenes.  

He was an under-developed character unlike the rest

I'm just saying that not seeing biotics in a cutscene doesn't mean Shepard isn't biotic.  Especially when he *is* using biotics in a lot of the promo screen shots.

[1Minsc1]

1Minsc1 wrote...

If i understand the meaning of 'canon' correctly, it means "that what happens in every playtrough and is not influecend by players decision". So Shep became a spectre in ME1, that's canon. His/her sex, class, skills can't be canon. If Wrex is alive in ME2 can't be canon, and so on.
Starting a ME2/ME3 without importing a character means starting with default setting, not with canon.

This? Or is my definition wrong?

[DRSH]

Augoeides wrote...
I'd prefer they put resources to polishing gameplay, and environments, and maybe implementing my pet agenda (sig) than offering a little ( or a lot) of variation in the "action" sequences. 

I'd prefer they do both, but that's just me .

[DeadLetterBox]

1Minsc1 wrote...

1Minsc1 wrote...

If i understand the meaning of 'canon' correctly, it means "that what happens in every playtrough and is not influecend by players decision". So Shep became a spectre in ME1, that's canon. His/her sex, class, skills can't be canon. If Wrex is alive in ME2 can't be canon, and so on.
Starting a ME2/ME3 without importing a character means starting with default setting, not with canon.

This? Or is my definition wrong?

Your definition seems right.
Way back in 2006 or 2007, I remember BioWare saying they would not establish a canonical Shepard, because they wanted players to take ownership of their character and feel like they fit into the story.

So, there are some things that definitely happened, and others they skirt around.  Drew K and Mac Walters have gone to a lot of effort to avoid making note of player-decided things in novels and comics.  I doubt they would have gone to all that trouble if there was "canon" on the books.  I bet even the people who worked on the game wouldn't agree on what a "canonical" Shepard would be at this point.

I think people have gotten so used to the complicated canon system that Star Wars has they expect it out of similarly epic space stories.  I look at Mass Effect as being like a tabletop RPG, except way cooler.  It weaves in and out of the stories that are set in stone, leaving me to make my own character and my own choices.

[Augoeides]

DRSH wrote...

Augoeides wrote...
I'd prefer they put resources to polishing gameplay, and environments, and maybe implementing my pet agenda (sig) than offering a little ( or a lot) of variation in the "action" sequences. 

I'd prefer they do both, but that's just me .

Agreed. But what are the chances of that?

[1Minsc1]

@DeadLetterBox: interesting facts, Thx.

[ElitePinecone]

DeadLetterBox wrote...
Your definition seems right.
Way back in 2006 or 2007, I remember BioWare saying they would not establish a canonical Shepard, because they wanted players to take ownership of their character and feel like they fit into the story.

So, there are some things that definitely happened, and others they skirt around.  Drew K and Mac Walters have gone to a lot of effort to avoid making note of player-decided things in novels and comics.  I doubt they would have gone to all that trouble if there was "canon" on the books.  I bet even the people who worked on the game wouldn't agree on what a "canonical" Shepard would be at this point.

I think people have gotten so used to the complicated canon system that Star Wars has they expect it out of similarly epic space stories.  I look at Mass Effect as being like a tabletop RPG, except way cooler.  It weaves in and out of the stories that are set in stone, leaving me to make my own character and my own choices.

This is a great explanation. There's a big difference between a medium based on static narratives like Star Wars (where role play and player choice has to be subservient to the extended universe's demand for a 'canon') and a non-linear and extremely malleable universe and IP such as Mass Effect. 

[Gabey5]

as mentioned a human named shepard fought the reapers is the all ya need

[DRSH]

Augoeides wrote...

DRSH wrote...

Augoeides wrote...
I'd prefer they put resources to polishing gameplay, and environments, and maybe implementing my pet agenda (sig) than offering a little ( or a lot) of variation in the "action" sequences. 

I'd prefer they do both, but that's just me .

Agreed. But what are the chances of that?

Dunno... but you know what they say: hope dies last :innocent:.

[Recon Member]

OP, please. It has been stated by BW itself. There is no "canon" Shepard. It's YOUR Shepard that is the canon one, wether you like it or not.

[Envor44]

Eh...the BioWare canon is play as default...not import your save in ME2, that's canon in the first game...mostly bad, and BW canon in ME2 remain unknown...until you start ME3 from the scratch without importing your save.

[Aargh12]

Envor44 wrote...

Eh...the BioWare canon is play as default...not import your save in ME2, that's canon in the first game...mostly bad, and BW canon in ME2 remain unknown...until you start ME3 from the scratch without importing your save.

This is not canon. It's the story created by Bioware for those who haven't played the first game. This default playthrough has the least amount of characters from the first game. It was made like that, because the devs didn't want new players to meet characters they didn't know. 
Simple.