23 réponses à ce sujet

[MELTOR13]

First off, I'd just like to say 'Hey' to everyone...I've been lurking these forums for a looong time, but never really posted in them. 

Anyways, I've got a question. After doing a recent Engineer playthrough, I found it very fun, and I want to roll another. However, I'd like another unique experience, so I'm tossing around different builds.

My 1st Engi looked like this:

Overload (Area)
Incinerate (Heavy)
Combat Drone (Attack)
1 pt. in Cryo (last point used, had to go somewhere)
Mechanic
Neural Shock (Shockwave)

Now, I've been tossing around the idea of an Engineer that takes Energy Drain instead of Overload, allowing for better survivability, but at the cost of losing Incinerate. Would this just completely shut down the class, or do you guys think it would still have viability?

I'm thinking the build will look something like this:

Overload (1 point, extra here for blowing up flamethrower dudes)
Combat Drone (Max)
Cryo Blast (Max)
AI Hacking (Max)
class Passive (Max)
Energy Drain (Max)

I haven't thought about squadmates or weapons training or anything like that yet. I'm not necessarily looking to gimp the class, I just want to deliver a different experience with different powers. Let me know what y'all think. If you have a build you'd like to throw out there that is different and fun, please let me know - Engineer or otherwise. I l love the ME series and I'm always looking at different ways to play the standard classes. Thanks.

[lazuli]

Looks viable if a bit quirky to me. You'll have some trouble with armor, so plan ahead by taking proper squadmates or an appropriate weapon on the DCS. Jacob with his Squad Incendiary Ammo might make a good selection, especially when paired with Miranda or Thane for Warp bombs. What difficulty level is this for?

[MELTOR13]

Hardcore. I knew that heavily armored opponents would be an issue...I will definitely be taking a squadmate with an ammo power, preferably one with armor-busting abilities (Garrus or Grunt/Jacob). And then a Biotic squadmate too. Either Miranda/Thane for Warps or Samara for Reave.

[Locutus_of_BORG]

Incinerate is such a useful power, it's difficult for me to imagine not using it, since I rely on it so much, esp. as an Engineer (I've used the same build as your original build, except with Incen. Blast).

Your build right now is probably most optimal against Geth and maybe Blue Suns. Armor/Barrier heavy enemies (Collectors, Blood Pack) might become an issue. You might overcome this with guns, squaddies and using ED/Reave to become a walking turret, but idk if that'd necessarily enough for your liking, I personally like to run very very heavy on debuff powers. However, to get the best use of Cryo Blast, you'll want to bypass defenses ASAP... so the build is probably viable, but idk.

Modifié par Locutus_of_BORG, 10 mai 2011 - 03:29 .

[termokanden]

I'm a little biased here because Incinerate is one of my favorite powers, if not the absolute favorite.

But let me try to say why I would always have it on an engineer:

1. It is the superior power against armor with its already high damage and 2.4 multiplier against armor.
2. The Blast (area affect) version is one of the best tools against husks.
3. It causes panic briefly and allows you to set up clear shots. Unprotected husks are immediately killed.
4. Many of the most difficult enemies in the game have armor.
5. A popular and good choice for engineers as a bonus weapon is the Geth Plasma Shotgun, and that one is good exactly against shields and barriers.
6. Since it is a duration based power, BOTH class passives give it a 15% damage bonus. This is not the case for Overload or Energy Drain.

Will your build work anyway? Yes, and it is still a good build.

Modifié par termokanden, 10 mai 2011 - 04:13 .

[jamesp81]

The concern I would have is your weakness against armor. Engineer is already weak against biotic barriers. With this build you're weak against biotic barriers and armor. However, I think it can still be viable. I would do Jack's loyalty mission ASAP and spec her to squad warp ammo. It's not a big bonus, but it gives you something against both armor and barriers. Take Miranda or Thane for warp as well.  I would tend to favor Thane/Jack over Miranda/Jack, since Thane brings better conventional weapons to the field (Sniper/SMG as opposed to SMG/pistol)

There are other alternatives.

Take Garrus for Squad AP Ammo (anti armor) and Heavy Concussive shot (anti-barrier). Also take Grunt or Zaeed for another Heavy Concussive shot. Or, instead of Grunt/Zaeed for the second CS, take Thane or Miranda for Warp instead of CS.

Similar to above, Take Grunt for Squad Incendiary (anti armor) and Concussive Shot (anti barrier). Combine with Zaeed or Garrus for an additional Concussive shot. Or, instead of Zaeed/Garrus take Miranda or Thane for Warp instead of CS.

When working with Garrus, Jacob, and Grunt, plan the ammo powers carefully. Choose one character to evolve to squad ammo. The others can evolve heavy versions of the ammo power for themselves, increasing team effectiveness all around (for example, if you go for squad incendiary from Grunt, have Garrus get Tungsten Ammo instead of squad AP ammo).

Miranda and Jacob would work as well. Miranda's Warp defeats barriers and armor, Jacob's squad incendiary defeats armor. This squad is weak on firearms training, however, since you're an engineer and not a soldier. This squad won't field a single assault rifle or sniper rifle and only one shotgun.

You could also take Samara with maxed out Reave for anti barrier and anti-armor. Then add Garrus, Grunt, Jacob, or Jack. Garrus would give you anti armor and anti barrier (AP Ammo and CS). Grunt would be the same except incendiary ammo instead of AP ammo. Jacob would give you incendiary ammo, and his Pull could also be used in conjunction with Samara's throw for some ragdoll kills.  Same for Samara/Jack, using the pull/throw combo (and, of course, Jack's warp ammo). The good thing about a Samara/Jacob team as opposed to a Miranda/Jacob team is Samara's weapons training; she can field an assault rifle, bringing some sorely needed conventional weaponry to the field in addition to her biotics.

Edit:

The more I think about it, the more I realize Samara and Grunt go well together in this build.

Against biotic enemies (Collectors and Eclipse) this squad is crazy strong.  Concussive shot and Reave and stomp biotic barriers.  Reave and squad incendiary ammo is powerful anti armor for praetorians and scions.  Cryo blast, throw field, and concussive shot give you good options for husk control.

Against Blood Pack, incendiary ammo stops regeneration and defeats krogan armor.  Reave does the same.

This build isn't as strong against Blue Suns, but it's still pretty strong.  Against Blue Suns, Energy Drain can defeat enemy shields.  It's really the only pure shield defeating power in this squad.  However, Reave, even though it doesn't do bonus damage against shields, still does over 200 points of damage to shields when fully upgraded, so it's worth using regardless.  Combined with drone, you should still do well.  Drone can distract one enemy, energy drain can shield strip a second.

Against Geth, energy drain is beastly powerful.  So is AI hacking (obviously)  Reave isn't as potent against them, but is still useful.  Shotguns are strong at defeating shields, so Grunt's shotgun becomes useful here.

This squad build is weakest against Blue Suns, but even there it's still pretty strong.  What you lack in shield stripping powers is made up for in crowd control powers and the fact that Samara and Grunt both field strong conventional weapons.

Modifié par jamesp81, 10 mai 2011 - 06:06 .

[RedCaesar97]

Locutus_of_BORG wrote...
Your build right now is probably most optimal against Geth and maybe Blue Suns. Armor/Barrier heavy enemies (Collectors, Blood Pack) might become an issue.

The Engineer (without an appropriate bonus power) is always going to have the most trouble with Barrier enemies.

MELTOR13 wrote...
I'm thinking the build will look something like this:

Overload (1 point, extra here for blowing up flamethrower dudes)
Combat Drone (Max)
Cryo Blast (Max)
AI Hacking (Max)
class Passive (Max)
Energy Drain (Max) 

The Engineer excels at one of two things:
(1) stripping defenses (focusing on Overload and Incinerate)
(2) disabling unprotected enemies (focusing on Cryo Blast and Hacking).

You first Engineer was better at (1) and your second Engineer is better at (2). Taking Energy Drain seems like a solid choice since your Engineer would lack any other viable defense-stripping power.

[Myalzalean]

If you are running without incinerate you will probably need to find a good strategy to compensate for not just husks as termokanden points out, but other enemies that like to swarm/charge.

Husks, abominations, varren, klixen, and krogan all like to get up close and personal and all have armor as a defense so without proper planning and tactics these guys will probably give you fits.

Scions and the thresher maw will also require some forethought in order to take them down in a timely manner.

Choosing the appropriate heavy weapon on those missions will probably be enough to compensate for the unbalance in addition to squadmate choice which you are already planning for.

[termokanden]

This is the build I have in mind for my current engineer by the way:

4 Area Overload
4 Incineration Blast
4 Combat Drone
4 Demolisher
4 Cryo Blast
1 Stasis

You don't get hacking, but you get superior anti-defense as well as a power to finish people off, and Stasis as your anti-YMIR button.

I know Cryo Blast is no Pull Field, but I think it fits nicely in this build. So far I haven't maxed everything but it's working well.

(I have 4-5 half-finished playthroughs by now  )

Modifié par termokanden, 10 mai 2011 - 04:33 .

[Locutus_of_BORG]

RedCaesar97 wrote...

Locutus_of_BORG wrote...
Your build right now is probably most optimal against Geth and maybe Blue Suns. Armor/Barrier heavy enemies (Collectors, Blood Pack) might become an issue.

The Engineer (without an appropriate bonus power) is always going to have the most trouble with Barrier enemies.

True, but with at least with Incinerate and Overload, an Engineer can still do some burst damage to Barriers at 1.0x damage. Engineers are weaker against Barriers, but their powers still work on them to an extent..

Like others have said, the real issues might come from mobs of armored enemies, like Husks.

The Engineer excels at one of two things:
(1) stripping defenses (focusing on Overload and Incinerate)
(2) disabling unprotected enemies (focusing on Cryo Blast and Hacking).

You first Engineer was better at (1) and your second Engineer is better at (2). Taking Energy Drain seems like a solid choice since your Engineer would lack any other viable defense-stripping power.

Exactly. Engineers are typically excel at and depend on stripping defenses, being strong vs. Shields and Armor, weaker against Barriers. My concern is that  theOP's proposed build seems quite weak against Armor and Barriers, opting for more CC instead. However, the CC abilities require strong defense stripping to work.

What I'm on the fence about is whether the proposed build would actually be gimped or not.

Modifié par Locutus_of_BORG, 10 mai 2011 - 04:37 .

[termokanden]

I don't think so if you bring the right squadmates. But as awesome as Energy Drain is, I think you're better off going with maxed Overload and 1 point Stasis if you have LotSB.

[Bozorgmehr]

You're using a build which is specialized in CC; which is great if you make sure you team up with the 'right' squadmates. Defenses shouldn't be an issue really, squadies with Reave, Warp, Incinerate and Overload will take care of em easy enough, plus you're weapons are much more effective against defenses than health anyway. I wouldn't focus too much on Ammo Powers, they hardly make a difference when it comes to stripping defenses.

It's also possible to respec once or twice; Energy Drain is great against shields (the most common defense), but useless on Collector and Bloodpack heavy missions. You can easily respec and get Incinerate rank 3 which is more than enough to one-shot normal enemy's armor (Vorcha, LOKI, husks). While you're at it, swap Energy Drain with Neural Shock which is great even at rank 1 and awesome against organics. Build should be something like this:

Overload rank 2 (to unlock Incinerate)
Incinerate rank 3
Attack/Explosive Drone
Deep Cryo Blast (more duration is awesome)
Improved AI Hacking
Mechanic (extra duration boost Incinerate, drones, cryo blast, hacking and neural shock)
Neural Shock rank 1

My personal favorite power, beside Combat Drones is AI Hacking. Make sure you go for the Improved version (not the area) - hacking the 'right' enemy will win fights and it's a lot of fun watching enemies tear each other apart. For more info check AI Hacking Hilarity

[Locutus_of_BORG]

^^Probably. Overload is my preferred power as well.

However, I guess squadmates can cover a lot... OP might find himself using Mordin and Samara a lot.

^ I think OP might be thinking of try to not use Incinerate at all.

Modifié par Locutus_of_BORG, 10 mai 2011 - 04:47 .

[MELTOR13]

 I don't want you guys to get the wrong idea, I love Incinerate, and 'kill it with fire' is usually my standard go-to plan on my other Engineer. 

I was just looking for a different experience this time around. I was afraid that not having Incinerate would gimp the build to a point where it wasn't fun anymore. Judging from yalls responses, I think the build will be OK...but I am a little worried about Collector missions and husk rushes now...

[MELTOR13]

Locutus_of_BORG wrote...

^^Probably. Overload is my preferred power as well.

However, I guess squadmates can cover a lot... OP might find himself using Mordin and Samara a lot.

^ I think OP might be thinking of try to not use Incinerate at all.

I wouldn't be completely opposed to re-speccing, but I normally try to play without re-speccing too much, simply because i think it takes a strategic part of the game away when you can constantly respec to cover weaknesses. 

Mordin and Samara would be a good choice of squaddies, especially during armor heavy missions. Plus, dual cryo-blast awesomeness could occur. I would be without an ammo power there though....

[Locutus_of_BORG]

^ Ammo Powers are often overrated. I think you'd do more damage freezing/cc'ing ppl faster and getting the double damage bonuses from those.

[jamesp81]

Locutus_of_BORG wrote...

RedCaesar97 wrote...

Locutus_of_BORG wrote...
Your build right now is probably most optimal against Geth and maybe Blue Suns. Armor/Barrier heavy enemies (Collectors, Blood Pack) might become an issue.

The Engineer (without an appropriate bonus power) is always going to have the most trouble with Barrier enemies.

True, but with at least with Incinerate and Overload, an Engineer can still do some burst damage to Barriers at 1.0x damage. Engineers are weaker against Barriers, but their powers still work on them to an extent..

Like others have said, the real issues might come from mobs of armored enemies, like Husks.

The Engineer excels at one of two things:
(1) stripping defenses (focusing on Overload and Incinerate)
(2) disabling unprotected enemies (focusing on Cryo Blast and Hacking).

You first Engineer was better at (1) and your second Engineer is better at (2). Taking Energy Drain seems like a solid choice since your Engineer would lack any other viable defense-stripping power.

Exactly. Engineers are typically excel at and depend on stripping defenses, being strong vs. Shields and Armor, weaker against Barriers. My concern is that  theOP's proposed build seems quite weak against Armor and Barriers, opting for more CC instead. However, the CC abilities require strong defense stripping to work.

What I'm on the fence about is whether the proposed build would actually be gimped or not.

By itself, it would be gimped.  With the right squadmate choices, I think it'd work fine.

[MELTOR13]

 Thanks for all the responses guys. I think I'm going to go ahead and run with this build idea and see where it goes. I may decide it's not for me, but that's what re-speccing is for, right? 

[Simbacca]

OP your potential new Engineer matches one of the three I typically recommend in build threads, namely when I post this:

anti-organic
4 Area Overload
4 Incineration Blast
4 Attack Drone
1 Cryo Blast
0 AI Hacking
4 Demolisher
4 Neural Shockwave

anti-synthetic
1 Overload
0 Incinerate
4 Explosive Drone
4 Full Cryo Blast
4 Improved AI Hacking
4 Demolisher
4 Area Drain

balanced
4 Area Overload
4 Incineration Blast
4 Attack Drone
2 Cryo Blast
3 AI Hacking
4 Demolisher
1 Neural Shock

About that anti-synthetic build, I used that on Geth missions during my sniper and one of my shotgun Engineer runs (alternating with the anti-organic spec for other missions).  I can tell you this, on those missions you will be an indestructable juggernaut just spamming Area Drain with some Explosive Drones.  Counter-intuitive, I know, the very missions you would think Improved AI Hacking would be best for, the player only ends up using it if he/she forces himself to slow down enough too

As far as using that build for every mission it could work fine for you as long as you bring the right squadmates, say Grunt and Mordin for armor-heavy missions and Jack and Thane/Miranda for barrier-heavy missions.  On these missions you'd focus on using Attack Drone and Full Cryo Blast, possibly a little Improved Hacking if there happen to be any Loki Mechs around.

With all that being said...

I've got to say though after having gone back and done another shotgun Engineer insanity run with the balanced build, that really does have everything I ever needed in the other two builds combined. 

The biggest loss is the juggernaut like invulberability Area Drain provided on Geth missions, but that always felt more Sentinel than Engineer.  A different feeling for sure, but you can be just as safe on those missions spamming rank 3 Hacking and Attack Drone, with occasional crippling Area Overloads when prudent.  Bring Tali (spec'd Explosive Drone, Improved Hacking, 0 passive, Area Drain) if you want to control even more synthetic minions or Garrus for defense-stripping, head-shotting goodness, either one of them with Zaeed. 

On the organic side, NSwaves rarely ever hit more than one unprotected enemy anyway, so one-point wonder NS works just as instantly good.  And for more widespread crowd control, that's what Grunt's Squad Incendiary Ammo, our biotic allies' abilities, and/or Shep's Incineration Blast are for.

Finally we still have rank 2 Cryo Blast to speed up the demise of the red bars of our more 'heathly' enemies once isolated, such as YMIR, Primes, Klixen, and Krogan.

Modifié par Simbacca, 10 mai 2011 - 07:29 .

[Locutus_of_BORG]

The Balanced and Anti-Organic builds are really good. I haven't found much need for the anti-synthetic build yet, but being a sniper, my current Engineer has the time and space to spam AI Hacking. I have to say though, N.Shockwave is great for the Husk sequences - makes them extremely easy.

[MELTOR13]

@Simbacca

Your anti-organic build is exactly like my original engineer, and I had a blast with him. Might've been the easiest Collector ship run I've ever had with Grunt and Thane. Also, shotty Engineers FTW.

I don't know if I'll go shotty again this time or not. Might go with AR training and roll around with the GPR. I think it fits a techie-type character well.

[Simbacca]

Locutus_of_BORG wrote...

...being a sniper, my current Engineer has the time and space to spam AI Hacking...

Agreed.  Eventhough I was all Shotgun and Area Drain, with some Explosive Drones, when using that anti-synthetic build on that Engineer, I did use more Hacking when running that build on those missions with my Sniper Engineer.

Locutus_of_BORG wrote...

...I have to say though, N.Shockwave is great for the Husk sequences - makes them extremely easy.

True but all my Engineers use Incineration Blast on Husks, followed my Mordin's (4.5 sec) Full Cryo Blast.  If one were to use Shepard's Neural Shockwave on Husks, it would have to follow Mordin's (12 sec) Incineration Blast.

Modifié par Simbacca, 10 mai 2011 - 07:47 .

[MELTOR13]

Simbacca wrote...

True but all my Engineers use Incineration Blast on Husks, followed my Mordin's (4.5 sec) Full Cryo Blast.  If one were to use Shepard's Neural Shockwave on Husks, it would have to follow Mordin's (12 sec) Incineration Blast.

Mordin's Cryo Blast is pretty boss. I forgot that it was only 4.5 secs when you fully upgrade it. Is he the only squaddie with a spammable ability like that? 

[Locutus_of_BORG]

Simbacca wrote...

Locutus_of_BORG wrote...

...I have to say though, N.Shockwave is great for the Husk sequences - makes them extremely easy.

True but all my Engineers use Incineration Blast on Husks, followed my Mordin's (4.5 sec) Full Cryo Blast.  If one were to use Shepard's Neural Shockwave on Husks, it would have to follow Mordin's (12 sec) Incineration Blast.

I usually build my teams with heavy combo overlaps whenever possible, so with that example, my 3rd squaddie was Samara w. Area Reave, which I could follow up with my N.Shockwave. Mordin could also open for Samara's Pull Field or Samara for Mordin's Cryo, etc. I set that team up so the cooldowns would more-or-less allow for 2 members hitting Husks and 1 member hitting Scions at all times.

MELTOR13 wrote...

Mordin's Cryo Blast is pretty boss. I forgot that it was only 4.5 secs when you fully upgrade it. Is he the only squaddie with a spammable ability like that? 

I think the Pull Bots (Samara, Jack) can hit similar rates with Pull Field. If we're talking pure Husk rushes, that'll get you the same kind of results.

Modifié par Locutus_of_BORG, 12 mai 2011 - 08:15 .