305 réponses à ce sujet

[jlb524]

Exactly, Persephone, which is why I found the companion relationships and romances deeper and better executed than Origins, even if there was less dialog. They definitely made the most of lesser content.

If I had my way, I would want them to keep the Friend/Rival system with a few gifts (they were a nice touch in DA2) but bring back the option to have some dialog with your companions wherever and whenever, a la Origins. However, also have dialog that is limited to occurring at certain times (after a specific quest or whatnot) and in certain places, a la DA2. That will still allow you to have context sensitive dialog, like they did with in DA2.

[Zjarcal]

jlb524 wrote...
If I had my way, I would want them to keep the Friend/Rival system with a few gifts (they were a nice touch in DA2) but bring back the option to have some dialog with your companions wherever and whenever, a la Origins. However, also have dialog that is limited to occurring at certain times (after a specific quest or whatnot) and in certain places, a la DA2. That will still allow you to have context sensitive dialog, like they did with in DA2.

Exactly what I would love to see as well in future games. 

Modifié par Zjarcal, 14 mai 2011 - 07:17 .

[TheTranzor]

Persephone wrote...

jlb524 wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Something I've grown to appreciate about DAII is how reactive NPCs are to my Hawke's tone. In Origins you also get several responses, yet often you get the same response from the NPC, no matter what you say to them (I recently created another city elf & just finished Ostagar). I stopped playing after Ostagar because no matter how snarky/snippy my CE was, nobody seemed to notice it.

I feel the same way.  They did a great job of weaving Hawke's personality into the dialog and NPC interactions.  That's why Hawke feels more alive to me, and not necessarily b/c s/he's voiced.

In Origins, the different options seemed to be there more for the benefit of having "many dialog choices", but didn't effect how others perceived you.

And NPCs as well as companions "forget" about things pretty quickly in DAO, even things that outraged them a minute ago. In DAII Anders recalls how I treated the mages from Starkhaven, Fenris remembers how things went down with Hadriana (As well as Hawke's involvement).... In DAO both Leliana and Alistair are upset if I kill Connor. They never bring it up again though, like it never happened. While entering a deal with Topor not only causes Anders to break up with Hawke, he remembers her being willing to deal with demons later.

I also liked the way the companions personalities were affected by what Hawke did and the choices that were made.  I preferred the friend/rival system over the bribery system from DA:O for sure.  In DA2, the companions do remember choices you made, and do react to them in game.  I don't think I fully appreciated that until I went with a playthrough where I had roughly half the companions on "rival" and the other half on "friend".  And the rivalmance actually made Merrill tolerable to me, when I used to just go with Isabela.

Not saying DA2's system was perfect, mind you.  It was a little bit simplistic for me in relation to what the concept could have been.  Maybe DA3 will have a more complex friend/rival system, where more actions/decisions factor in.

[Persephone]

jlb524 wrote...

Exactly, Persephone, which is why I found the companion relationships and romances deeper and better executed than Origins, even if there was less dialog. They definitely made the most of lesser content.

If I had my way, I would want them to keep the Friend/Rival system with a few gifts (they were a nice touch in DA2) but bring back the option to have some dialog with your companions wherever and whenever, a la Origins. However, also have dialog that is limited to occurring at certain times (after a specific quest or whatnot) and in certain places, a la DA2. That will still allow you to have context sensitive dialog, like they did with in DA2.

Exactly. DAII was a step in the right decision with the F/R system. However, improvements like the ones you mention would be fantastic. I'd also add a Respect/Trust meter along to F/R to enhance it further. Once you've reached a certain point of respect/trust, additional quests/dialogue/cutscenes will unlock. Romance wise, it'll influence commitment. (I mean, Hawke and her LI may move in together but if Aveline can get married why not her?) Once you are below a certain level of Respect/Trust Companions will leave you. (I.E. It could have caused Aveline to go back to Ferelded based on a certain *Spoiler*) 

The ONE thing I did enjoy going back to my Canon Warden saves was kissing Alistair (Using a gorgeous mod) wherever I wanted. I want that in DAII!!!! (Look at the kisses DAII DID offer, they did those much better than DAO...)

[tonnactus]

Dormiglione wrote...


I dont think that many share your opinion about that. Its not only about "how important" is Shepard for the mission, its about the story, the past of shepard in ME1, his companions and how decisions made in ME1 make a difference in ME2.

Next to zero.Braindead council(the biggest decision/if you rescued them) and former squadmembers exept wrex maybee.
The so called cameos were a bad joke.

[Persephone]

tonnactus wrote...

Dormiglione wrote...


I dont think that many share your opinion about that. Its not only about "how important" is Shepard for the mission, its about the story, the past of shepard in ME1, his companions and how decisions made in ME1 make a difference in ME2.

Next to zero.Braindead council(the biggest decision/if you rescued them) and former squadmembers exept wrex maybee.
The so called cameos were a bad joke.

Romanced Liara vexed me more than any other. "Shepard!" *Kiss* And then there's nothing until DLC rolled around & fixed it.

[tonnactus]

Persephone wrote...



Romanced Liara vexed me more than any other. "Shepard!" *Kiss* And then there's nothing until DLC rolled around & fixed it.

O course. How terrible that was,it was still better then what then Fans of the Virmire Survivor got.

Modifié par tonnactus, 14 mai 2011 - 07:51 .

[Chugster]

i still dont understand the extreme negative reactions to this game...just about every post i read, i think 'hmm i didnt experience that...what game are these people playing?'.

now before i get flamed, let me say, i do accept alot of points about DA2, but i just dont see them being that much of a factor in not enjoying the game..

maybe its because ive been playing video games for nearly 30 years. And in that time ive played some real howlers....maybe kids today just dont know how lucky they are (god i sound like an old man)

Modifié par Chugster, 14 mai 2011 - 07:53 .

[Cody211282]

tonnactus wrote...

Persephone wrote...



Romanced Liara vexed me more than any other. "Shepard!" *Kiss* And then there's nothing until DLC rolled around & fixed it.

O course. How terrible that was,it was still better then what then Fans of the Virmire Survivor got.

Having romanced Ashley in the first game the part were you meet her would have probably gone better if she had just kneed Shep in the balls and walked off without saying anything,

[Cody211282]

Chugster wrote...

i still dont understand the extreme negative reactions to this game...just about every post i read, i think 'hmm i didnt experience that...what game are these people playing?'.

now before i get flamed, let me say, i do accept alot of points about DA2, but i just dont see them being that much of a factor in not enjoying the game..

maybe its because ive been playing video games for nearly 30 years. And in that time ive played some real howlers....maybe kids today just dont know how lucky they are (god i sound like an old man)

For me it's a mix of expecting more from Bioware and expecting something similar to DA:O. The crap ton of buggs and repetitive eviromest hurt it even more. I will agree that this game has some amazing things going for it, but when it's all said and done all they do is show off how bad every pother part of the game is. I would expect something like this from a companey that has never done an RPG before and is trying to see if their fans would like that direction, but not from a companey that makes RPGs.

[Master Shiori]

jlb524 wrote...

If I had my way, I would want them to keep the Friend/Rival system with a few gifts (they were a nice touch in DA2) but bring back the option to have some dialog with your companions wherever and whenever, a la Origins. However, also have dialog that is limited to occurring at certain times (after a specific quest or whatnot) and in certain places, a la DA2. That will still allow you to have context sensitive dialog, like they did with in DA2.

Same here, with the exception that I wouldn't really care if they completely dropped the "talk to companions wherever and whenever" approach. I do hope that future DA games contain more dialogue with companions, but otherwise the relationships and interaction in DA2 were a huge step in the right direction.

[Cutlasskiwi]

jlb524 wrote...

Persephone wrote...

Something I've grown to appreciate about DAII is how reactive NPCs are to my Hawke's tone. In Origins you also get several responses, yet often you get the same response from the NPC, no matter what you say to them (I recently created another city elf & just finished Ostagar). I stopped playing after Ostagar because no matter how snarky/snippy my CE was, nobody seemed to notice it.

I feel the same way.  They did a great job of weaving Hawke's personality into the dialog and NPC interactions.  That's why Hawke feels more alive to me, and not necessarily b/c s/he's voiced.

In Origins, the different options seemed to be there more for the benefit of having "many dialog choices", but didn't effect how others perceived you.

This is why I liked and felt more attached to Hawke. The voice helped and the reaction Hawke's responses got was really good. It sure helped with my immersion in the game.  

[Marionetten]

Alistairlover94 wrote...

Not if you're playing as MageHawke. Immersion is thrown right out of the window.

I wanted to slap my Hawke every single time he tried to lecture a blood mage while being one.

[Zjarcal]

Marionetten wrote...

Alistairlover94 wrote...

Not if you're playing as MageHawke. Immersion is thrown right out of the window.

I wanted to slap my Hawke every single time he tried to lecture a blood mage while being one.

What, you've never played a hypocrite character? It'd be no different than a politician giving a speech against corruption while being corrupt himself/herself. 

Mind you, this is an issue that was also present in Origins. I really hope in DA3 we have the option to high five our fellow blood mages instead of only having the option to berate them.

Modifié par Zjarcal, 14 mai 2011 - 09:33 .

[jlb524]

They do need more class-specific dialog.  DA2 did feature a few special options for mages, rogues, warriors, but a bit more never hurts (especially for mages in this particular story).

Persephone wrote...
The ONE thing I did enjoy going back to my Canon Warden saves was kissing Alistair (Using a gorgeous mod) wherever I wanted. I want that in DAII!!!! (Look at the kisses DAII DID offer, they did those much better than DAO...)

Yeah, general things like this would be nice to add in with 'anytime dialog' along with them telling you a story about their past or whatever.

Too bad there's no toolset or people may be able to do the same with DA2.

[KnightofPhoenix]

hoorayforicecream wrote...
...while hardening friending makes Leliana Isabela more like her old self, or (rivaling) Alistair Sebastian more ambitious(he willingly becomes king at the Landsmeet Prince of Starkhaven) and much more confident in himself.

The situation with Sebastian did not make sense to me.

Rivalry is pushing him to be ambitious and to want the throne. But you can't maximize rivalry unless you are an ass both to him and in your choices. What does me consorting with demons have anything to do with Sebastian being ambitious or not? I would buy if it's a lesson that Sebastian is learning, but he hates me doing that.
Which is bad, because I was counting on Sebastian being ambitious, but I was also counting on him naively liking my Hawke (because like an idiot I was thinking there was going to be a rise to power and he'd be a useful ally, but I digress).

I really thought it ended up being a hit or miss thing depending on each companion. With Varric, it made sense to me. With Sebastian and a bit with Anders, it didn't.

Also, rivalry seems to be that they are still buddies. That means that companions can't actually hate Hawke. They can be pissed at him / her, but not genuinely hate. In Origins, they can genuinely hate you and even try to kill you.

Anyways, all in all, I thought DA2 was mostly an improvement in that regard, it just needs tweeking and perhaps an additional meter for trust as others have suggested. And more dialogue with companions and the ability to talk to them whenever we want (but dialogue would unlock depending on quests..etc). Yes, Origins used numbers to show approval, but the companions also changed in their tone and mannerism depending on approval. From Sten being uninterested to calling you Kadan each time you wnat to talk to him, from Morrigan being neutral to giggling (). I relied more on that to see how much companions approved.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 14 mai 2011 - 09:46 .

[hoorayforicecream]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Also, rivalry seems to be that they are still buddies. That means that companions can't actually hate Hawke. They can be pissed at him / her, but not genuinely hate. In Origins, they can genuinely hate you and even try to kill you.

Anders tried to kill me when I sided with the templars and didn't kill him. Merrill and Fenris can try to kill me. The only thing that isn't really allowed is companions utterly hating Hawke (Sebastian comes kinda close at the end, but not really), but I'm willing to live with that. I don't really see how adding that element really benefits the game in the long term. It's more of a "heh, that's kinda cute, now I'll reload" thing than a "wow, this really has an impact on the game" thing.

[Yrkoon]

Chugster wrote...


maybe its because ive been playing video games for nearly 30 years. And in that time ive played some real howlers....maybe kids today just dont know how lucky they are (god i sound like an old man)

Indeed.  I imagine  if   one is used to playing games like Pac-man and Pong, a Game like DA2 would seem like a true masterpiece by comparison.  lol

Although, come to think of it, Pac-man at least has decent replay value.

Modifié par Yrkoon, 14 mai 2011 - 09:56 .

[turian councilor Knockout]

Well, to keep this short i have never hated this game, sure DA 2 is flawed and while i am dissapointed that Bioware cut out certain important elements of the game that made Origins special,anyway my point is that i've had fun with DA 2 and that's enough for me and i think it's better to remember the parts of the game DA 2 actually did well rather than the bad ones.

[Zjarcal]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
Yes, Origins used numbers to show approval, but the companions also changed in their tone and mannerism depending on approval. From Sten being uninterested to calling you Kadan each time you wnat to talk to him, from Morrigan being neutral to giggling (). I relied more on that to see how much companions approved. 

You know, I had forgotten about that. I do miss that. Morri's giggling or Leliana's "hey...". 

Actually, DA2 does implement it, but to a much lesser extent, at least with Isabela. She made a lot of snarky and mocking comments towards Hawke when clicked on while on the rivalry path. Having more of that with all the companions would've been nice.

KnightofPhoenix wrote...
That means that companions can't actually hate Hawke. They can be pissed at him / her, but not genuinely hate. In Origins, they can genuinely hate you and even try to kill you. 

Well, they can still do that at the end if you side with the wrong side and their F/R isn't high enough, but you're right about the lack of genuine hate. Although Justice may really hate you.

[KnightofPhoenix]

hoorayforicecream wrote...
but I'm willing to live with that. I don't really see how adding that element really benefits the game in the long term. It's more of a "heh, that's kinda cute, now I'll reload" thing than a "wow, this really has an impact on the game" thing.

I think it's more realistic and can be a possible consequence to your choices or attitude in the game. Origins didn't do it perfectly, but I was meh about all the Hawke love. I'd think that guy / girl gives a lot of reasons for someone to just plain dislike him / her.

[Brockololly]

Like so much else in DA2, I like the concept of the F/R system but the execution leaves much to be desired.

Initially, you need more dialogue with the companions to figure out who they are and what makes them tick, otherwise you take them out and get a bunch of random friendship/rivalry points without knowing why.

And quite frankly, the F/R system doesn't make much sense in DA2 but would have worked much better in Origins. In Origins your companions are with you for a common purpose, whether they like you or not, which would seem far better suited to the F/R mechanic as they might disagree with your means, but won't bail on the party as you have the world to save.Whereas in DA2, you lack any big important thing binding the companions to Hawke and so they just linger around like a bad smell even if you hate their guts.

So really, whatever approval type system they do in the future needs to be suited for the narrative they're trying to tell more than anything. I really think the DA2 system could have benefited from an additional Origins style personal like/dislike meter or something, as KoP pointed out with Sebastian, sometimes the F/R mechanic is just bizarre in its implementation.