305 réponses à ce sujet

[BeefoTheBold]

TheTranzor wrote...

BeefoTheBold wrote...

erynnar wrote...

SkittlesKat96 wrote...

I think it's a decent game, just rushed and a bit of a disappointment.

The problem is the Bioware forum is full of the vocal hardcore Rpg fans and they think that they are great in number and act as if they are the only people of DA 2's fanbase...people like me actually enjoyed the game a little bit and I think that a lot of the changes are for the better (voiced protagonist, new companion system, most of the art style changes besides the darkspawn one etc.)

I understand Skittles, you liked many of the things I did not. That's perfectly okay. As to being the greater number? Well, I honestly can't answer that anymore than you can claim to be the bigger majority. The only thing that might give us an idea about that...the sales...and they don't look so good for the changes.

Exactly. I haven't posted a lot lately, but I am getting pretty damn sick of the defenders of DA2 claiming that only a vocal minority here on the forums have major issues while the large silent majority are being overlooked and unheard from.

Well, to be honest... in any business, those who are dissatisfied are always going to be the most vocal.  For the most part, those who are dissatisfied represent a minority (remember, even 49% is a minority compared to 51%).

I've worked in the video game industry for more years than I care to admit, and that's always been the case... for every 10 angry people who are vocally upset, there's another 90 who generally are pleased with the game, or at least don't hate it enough to post about it. 

I understand that argument. I really do.

But I also think that the sales and reviews of DA2 pretty much shoot the "vast silent majority" argument in the foot so to speak. When you think about it, a sequel to a triple A title like Origins should ABSOLUTELY sell more than the first game in a franchise.

Installed base on the consoles expand as the generation matures. First game cleared a road to make a name for followup titles. Etc. Sequels just plain, flat-out, should sell dramatically better when they're following a critically acclaimed, best selling game. 

For a sequel to sell even the same amount is a large disappointment. For a sequel to sell dramatically less? That's typically considered to be a flop when you're following on a triple A like Origins.

It makes it really hard to claim that the folks complaining about DA2 are a very loud, but overall relatively small, minority. It's personally a little irritating when I see DA2's defenders constantly claim that when what little available evidence we have (in the form of sales and reviews) says otherwise.

Modifié par BeefoTheBold, 14 mai 2011 - 06:36 .

[Dormiglione]

TheTranzor wrote...

BeefoTheBold wrote...

erynnar wrote...

SkittlesKat96 wrote...

I think it's a decent game, just rushed and a bit of a disappointment.

The problem is the Bioware forum is full of the vocal hardcore Rpg fans and they think that they are great in number and act as if they are the only people of DA 2's fanbase...people like me actually enjoyed the game a little bit and I think that a lot of the changes are for the better (voiced protagonist, new companion system, most of the art style changes besides the darkspawn one etc.)

I understand Skittles, you liked many of the things I did not. That's perfectly okay. As to being the greater number? Well, I honestly can't answer that anymore than you can claim to be the bigger majority. The only thing that might give us an idea about that...the sales...and they don't look so good for the changes.

Exactly. I haven't posted a lot lately, but I am getting pretty damn sick of the defenders of DA2 claiming that only a vocal minority here on the forums have major issues while the large silent majority are being overlooked and unheard from.

Well, to be honest... in any business, those who are dissatisfied are always going to be the most vocal.  For the most part, those who are dissatisfied represent a minority (remember, even 49% is a minority compared to 51%).

I've worked in the video game industry for more years than I care to admit, and that's always been the case... for every 10 angry people who are vocally upset, there's another 90 who generally are pleased with the game, or at least don't hate it enough to post about it. 

In general its how you say. But in same cases not. Just take a look at the criticism thread. Unbelievable amount of pages. Filled with valid criticism and also with a lot of rant.
Not every disappointed customer takes his time and come to the forum to tell his opinion. Lots of points made are subjective, but sales are objective.
The mass of preorders granted DA2 a big start in terms of sale. Sales arent that good when you look how they perform.

Modifié par Dormiglione, 14 mai 2011 - 06:44 .

[erynnar]

Yeah Tranz, I would normally agree with you. DAO no doubt had those stats. But this is a whole different kettle of fish. Even newspapers like The Hindu have reviews like this: http://www.thehindu....ce2635ad5759,0?

Then there is metacritic professional sales vs. user score (and yes there are troll reviews from both sides, but not enough to make it unbelieveable). And the sales. Granted it's not a lot, but...yeah.

Couple that with the meg ton of feedback that didn't die down a couple of weeks after the game (as a lot of the people who cried wolf before the game came out, stop once they start playing). Instead, it ramped up...a lot.

This didn't follow the formula of complaints, sales, and drop off of complaints and bad reviews like say it's successor. *shrugs*

[Kileyan]

Mick301981 wrote...


The above is pretty much what I thought of the Fade.  The length wasn't the issue for me, the content was.   The solo combat and puzzle solving bored me to tears.

If they had focused less on those aspects and more on the companions nightmares, I would have found it much more interesting.  Instead of having large zones like Darkspawn invasion and Burning Tower, have large zones for each companion's nightmare,  showing some details about their pasts.  Of course you wouldn't want to learn everthing about them, as that would make the companion exposition conversations meaningless.

That's what I would like to see for the Fade in future DA games.  If I'm going to go into someone's nightmare, I want to really get inside their head. 

Didn't mind the deep roads though.  It's the darkspawn's home base, so it should be expansive in my opinion.

A bit long and somewhat off-topic, but that's my two cents. 

The fade didn't bother me, but I can understand folks not liking it.

Deep Roads I liked, it should have been long, I felt like I was really passing from caves some Dwarves had seen, to middle areas, to places never seen in ages. It worked for me.

What really bothers me is subjective, but to me, it seems Bioware can't find a middle ground. That is hard to do, but I still say they take extreme measures more often than not.

DA2's fade was a single short side cooridor and another door that was within 35 meters of the beginning of the map that ended the map and started a cutscene.

DA2's Deeproads was a cutscene and a single winding path that took all of 12 minutes aside from the rock wraith battle.

Does Bioware not have someone on their team that can look at A and B, and say lets meet in the middle at least? It is like they heard fans complain about the Deep Roads length, and rather than find a good middle ground, they just said, it was too long, so to make up for that, the next one will be 6 minutes long, win win, we will show them, you get what you ask for!!!

[TheTranzor]

BeefoTheBold wrote...

TheTranzor wrote...

[
Well, to be honest... in any business, those who are dissatisfied are always going to be the most vocal.  For the most part, those who are dissatisfied represent a minority (remember, even 49% is a minority compared to 51%).

I've worked in the video game industry for more years than I care to admit, and that's always been the case... for every 10 angry people who are vocally upset, there's another 90 who generally are pleased with the game, or at least don't hate it enough to post about it. 

I understand that argument. I really do.

But I also think that the sales and reviews of DA2 pretty much shoot the "vast silent majority" argument in the foot so to speak. When you think about it, a sequel to a triple A title like Origins should ABSOLUTELY sell more than the first game in a franchise.

Installed base on the consoles expand as the generation matures. First game cleared a road to make a name for followup titles. Etc. Sequels just plain, flat-out, should sell dramatically better when they're following a critically acclaimed, best selling game. 

For a sequel to sell even the same amount is a large disappointment. For a sequel to sell dramatically less? That's typically considered to be a flop when you're following on a triple A like Origins.

It makes it really hard to claim that the folks complaining about DA2 are a very loud, but overall relatively small, minority. It's personally a little irritating when I see DA2's defenders constantly claim that when what little available evidence we have (in the form of sales and reviews) says otherwise.

Oh yeah, not saying that's necessarily the case with DA2, for certain.  Of course, we can't say for sure if EA/Bioware would consider DA2 a flop, because only they really know what their expectations were.  I'm sure somewhere, somebody over there had to realize that a game that had less than half the development time of the original and cut corners in order to make a release date probably wasn't going to sell as well as a more polished product.

And if they internally lowered their own expectations when they realized what they'd be releasing, they certainly wouldn't make that known.

So who knows... maybe a flop to us, isn't a flop to them.  Maybe they've made enough to cover their costs and make a decent profit where they'd consider it a financial success.

Remember how terrible that GameCube was?  Nintendo made back all their R&D for that mess in less than a year... so everything they sold after that, was profit.  So to them, it was a financial success, even though it was by far the worst of the three consoles in terms of criticism and overall sales.

DA2 could be the same... big mess to us, but financial success to them.

[erynnar]

Oh absolutely Tranz...
And with that I am off to bed. *waves and blows kisses*

[TheTranzor]

erynnar wrote...

Oh absolutely Tranz...
And with that I am off to bed. *waves and blows kisses*

[BeefoTheBold]

TheTranzor wrote...

BeefoTheBold wrote...

TheTranzor wrote...

[
Well, to be honest... in any business, those who are dissatisfied are always going to be the most vocal.  For the most part, those who are dissatisfied represent a minority (remember, even 49% is a minority compared to 51%).

I've worked in the video game industry for more years than I care to admit, and that's always been the case... for every 10 angry people who are vocally upset, there's another 90 who generally are pleased with the game, or at least don't hate it enough to post about it. 

I understand that argument. I really do.

But I also think that the sales and reviews of DA2 pretty much shoot the "vast silent majority" argument in the foot so to speak. When you think about it, a sequel to a triple A title like Origins should ABSOLUTELY sell more than the first game in a franchise.

Installed base on the consoles expand as the generation matures. First game cleared a road to make a name for followup titles. Etc. Sequels just plain, flat-out, should sell dramatically better when they're following a critically acclaimed, best selling game. 

For a sequel to sell even the same amount is a large disappointment. For a sequel to sell dramatically less? That's typically considered to be a flop when you're following on a triple A like Origins.

It makes it really hard to claim that the folks complaining about DA2 are a very loud, but overall relatively small, minority. It's personally a little irritating when I see DA2's defenders constantly claim that when what little available evidence we have (in the form of sales and reviews) says otherwise.

Oh yeah, not saying that's necessarily the case with DA2, for certain.  Of course, we can't say for sure if EA/Bioware would consider DA2 a flop, because only they really know what their expectations were.  I'm sure somewhere, somebody over there had to realize that a game that had less than half the development time of the original and cut corners in order to make a release date probably wasn't going to sell as well as a more polished product.

And if they internally lowered their own expectations when they realized what they'd be releasing, they certainly wouldn't make that known.

So who knows... maybe a flop to us, isn't a flop to them.  Maybe they've made enough to cover their costs and make a decent profit where they'd consider it a financial success.

Remember how terrible that GameCube was?  Nintendo made back all their R&D for that mess in less than a year... so everything they sold after that, was profit.  So to them, it was a financial success, even though it was by far the worst of the three consoles in terms of criticism and overall sales.

DA2 could be the same... big mess to us, but financial success to them.

True enough, but we're talking about two different things now.

Whether the game was a financial success or not is not the same thing as whether the majority of fans/players liked the game and just aren't bothering to come here and post about it because unhappy customers are more likely to speak up.

I could see the game being a financial success. Two ways to make a profit after all: increase revenues or cut costs. With this one, it's pretty clear that they went the "cut costs" route by shortening development time. My guess is that they anticipated the Bioware "name" to generate a bit more sales than they actually did, but that's only a guess because who really knows how many sales they expected.

Generally speaking though, the Laidlaw interview where he talks about getting MORE people to play who couldn't really get attached to Origins seems to indicate that they were targeting a larger, broader audience. That seems incompatible with a sales target that is smaller than what Origins managed.

Given these things, along with the critic reviews, I think available information suggests that people who try and make the argument that it is only a very loud, vocal, small minority of caveman conservative style RPG players have problems with DA2 are without any real evidence to back that claim.

Modifié par BeefoTheBold, 14 mai 2011 - 06:56 .

[BeefoTheBold]

Don't mean to post and run Tranzor, but I'm tired and there's a plane I have to catch in the morning. Have a nice rest of your evening. Thanks for posting with me.

[Realmzmaster]

BeefoTheBold wrote...

TheTranzor wrote...

BeefoTheBold wrote...

erynnar wrote...

SkittlesKat96 wrote...

I think it's a decent game, just rushed and a bit of a disappointment.

The problem is the Bioware forum is full of the vocal hardcore Rpg fans and they think that they are great in number and act as if they are the only people of DA 2's fanbase...people like me actually enjoyed the game a little bit and I think that a lot of the changes are for the better (voiced protagonist, new companion system, most of the art style changes besides the darkspawn one etc.)

I understand Skittles, you liked many of the things I did not. That's perfectly okay. As to being the greater number? Well, I honestly can't answer that anymore than you can claim to be the bigger majority. The only thing that might give us an idea about that...the sales...and they don't look so good for the changes.

Exactly. I haven't posted a lot lately, but I am getting pretty damn sick of the defenders of DA2 claiming that only a vocal minority here on the forums have major issues while the large silent majority are being overlooked and unheard from.

Well, to be honest... in any business, those who are dissatisfied are always going to be the most vocal.  For the most part, those who are dissatisfied represent a minority (remember, even 49% is a minority compared to 51%).

I've worked in the video game industry for more years than I care to admit, and that's always been the case... for every 10 angry people who are vocally upset, there's another 90 who generally are pleased with the game, or at least don't hate it enough to post about it. 

I understand that argument. I really do.

But I also think that the sales and reviews of DA2 pretty much shoot the "vast silent majority" argument in the foot so to speak. When you think about it, a sequel to a triple A title like Origins should ABSOLUTELY sell more than the first game in a franchise.

Installed base on the consoles expand as the generation matures. First game cleared a road to make a name for followup titles. Etc. Sequels just plain, flat-out, should sell dramatically better when they're following a critically acclaimed, best selling game. 

For a sequel to sell even the same amount is a large disappointment. For a sequel to sell dramatically less? That's typically considered to be a flop when you're following on a triple A like Origins.

It makes it really hard to claim that the folks complaining about DA2 are a very loud, but overall relatively small, minority. It's personally a little irritating when I see DA2's defenders constantly claim that when what little available evidence we have (in the form of sales and reviews) says otherwise.

Sequels do not always outsell the original in a series or the previous game in the series. Example Morrowind sold 4 million copies compare to Obilivion that sold 3 million. The Sims  sold 16 million copies Sims 2 13 million.  We can take the concept even further using movies in that the First Godfather outsold the other two installments combined.

[TheTranzor]

BeefoTheBold wrote...

TheTranzor wrote...

BeefoTheBold wrote...

TheTranzor wrote...

[
Well, to be honest... in any business, those who are dissatisfied are always going to be the most vocal.  For the most part, those who are dissatisfied represent a minority (remember, even 49% is a minority compared to 51%).

I've worked in the video game industry for more years than I care to admit, and that's always been the case... for every 10 angry people who are vocally upset, there's another 90 who generally are pleased with the game, or at least don't hate it enough to post about it. 

I understand that argument. I really do.

But I also think that the sales and reviews of DA2 pretty much shoot the "vast silent majority" argument in the foot so to speak. When you think about it, a sequel to a triple A title like Origins should ABSOLUTELY sell more than the first game in a franchise.

Installed base on the consoles expand as the generation matures. First game cleared a road to make a name for followup titles. Etc. Sequels just plain, flat-out, should sell dramatically better when they're following a critically acclaimed, best selling game. 

For a sequel to sell even the same amount is a large disappointment. For a sequel to sell dramatically less? That's typically considered to be a flop when you're following on a triple A like Origins.

It makes it really hard to claim that the folks complaining about DA2 are a very loud, but overall relatively small, minority. It's personally a little irritating when I see DA2's defenders constantly claim that when what little available evidence we have (in the form of sales and reviews) says otherwise.

Oh yeah, not saying that's necessarily the case with DA2, for certain.  Of course, we can't say for sure if EA/Bioware would consider DA2 a flop, because only they really know what their expectations were.  I'm sure somewhere, somebody over there had to realize that a game that had less than half the development time of the original and cut corners in order to make a release date probably wasn't going to sell as well as a more polished product.

And if they internally lowered their own expectations when they realized what they'd be releasing, they certainly wouldn't make that known.

So who knows... maybe a flop to us, isn't a flop to them.  Maybe they've made enough to cover their costs and make a decent profit where they'd consider it a financial success.

Remember how terrible that GameCube was?  Nintendo made back all their R&D for that mess in less than a year... so everything they sold after that, was profit.  So to them, it was a financial success, even though it was by far the worst of the three consoles in terms of criticism and overall sales.

DA2 could be the same... big mess to us, but financial success to them.

True enough, but we're talking about two different things now.

Whether the game was a financial success or not is not the same thing as whether the majority of fans/players liked the game and just aren't bothering to come here and post about it because unhappy customers are more likely to speak up.

I could see the game being a financial success. Two ways to make a profit after all: increase revenues or cut costs. With this one, it's pretty clear that they went the "cut costs" route by shortening development time. My guess is that they anticipated the Bioware "name" to generate a bit more sales than they actually did, but that's only a guess because who really knows how many sales they expected.

Generally speaking though, the Laidlaw interview where he talks about getting MORE people to play who couldn't really get attached to Origins seems to indicate that they were targeting a larger, broader audience. That seems incompatible with a sales target that is smaller than what Origins managed.

Given these things, along with the critic reviews, I think available information suggests that people who try and make the argument that it is only a very loud, vocal, small minority of caveman conservative style RPG players have problems with DA2 are without any real evidence to back that claim.

I agree with you on that point... saying all the DA2 complainers must be a small minority of crazy conservative RPGs who are stuck in the past is just as ridiculous as those that are saying the opposite, that all DA2 fans must be a particularly vocal and brain dead minority that wouldn't know a good game if it sat on their faces. 

I always like to look at the radicals on each side of the argument and figure that as always... the truth is somewhere in the middle. 

Personally, I didn't think the game was all that bad.  Did I like Origins better?  Sure... But I also thought DA2 was ok.  I had to ignore some of the problems I had with the mechanics and style, but overall, I thought the story and most of the character concepts were decent.

[TheTranzor]

BeefoTheBold wrote...

Don't mean to post and run Tranzor, but I'm tired and there's a plane I have to catch in the morning. Have a nice rest of your evening. Thanks for posting with me.

No problem, have a good night and safe flight! 

[KLUME777]

It doesn't enter my mind much because it's long since i played it (and i will never play it again either), but when it does, i get a deep feeling of disdain for the game.

[xCirdanx]

KLUME777 wrote...

It doesn't enter my mind much because it's long since i played it (and i will never play it again either), but when it does, i get a deep feeling of disdain for the game.

I guess i will play it once more, but not anytime soon. Haven´t thought about the game for a while, busy playing other titles that i enjoy more and waiting for The Witcher 2 for my RP fix. At the moment i´m thinking more about another Origins playthrough than DA2.

[Sabriana]

No matter how much time has passed, DA 2 is still the only bioware game that I uninstalled after 1 1/2 play-throughs. I simply couldn't force myself to finish the 2nd one. Sad, really.

[Sabriana]

Heh, I did better than you, Ali. DA:O has yet to be uninstalled. I still play it. Yes I do.

*Puts flame-shield around Ali and herself*

[Stezizi]

For me it's a good game, not excellent, but good. Very funny (if often repetitive) although does not have the charisma or the atmosphere of Origins.

Rated 7

8.5 Origins

[Well]

Still just ok in my book.I give it a 5. DAO is 9.5 in my book.The dialog between npc's was really good.The wheel was pathetic.There was holes in the storyline you could drive a tank thru.There are parts I think were really good but too many parts were just plain lame.Some say there wasn't enough time.I don't believe that.I believe it was more in the direction it went.At least IMHO.I will continue to play DAO but doesn't mean I wont make another run in DA2.I know I won't preorder again from BW. I will wait to see how the game comes out.

[The_11thDoctor]

I love and hate it with a passion.
It's better fighting wise
The characters are great
The art looks better though the character models/ textures look very dated still
armor looks better
still sucks that you cant equip armor to party members
still sucks that there is no blizzard spell
sucks that all mages cant use healing
world is a lot smaller
you realize that none of your choices matter, if bioware wants something to happen, it happens
your character isnt your character
you cant save anyone in your family despite saving all of kirkwall
you had better interactions with L.I. in DAO and more of them
You find tons of plot holes if you play the game. I had Merril snap at me saying the Keeper put me up to spying on her for like 3 cut scenes...this was after we killed the Keeper!(Oops!)
Tons of freezing and glitches like it was never tested.
All the hands in the game look TERRIBLE!
I spotted modeling mistakes on Merril where you could see bad tris/dents on body where they shouldnt be...
Love scene has both characters fully clothed?! "...." It's rated M for what?! Language is PG-13 or Teen at best...
Rehashed environments is a solid FAIL even if they are nice places
Stats on armor and weapons are a solid fail for the most part too. +1% to XP for like 48-120something G?! WHAT?!
I cant wear certain armor depending on my class? (DS Armor, Blood armor etc.) So I have to replay game to wear my special armor?

...all and all I love the banter and story for the most part, the fighting is finally fun minus the random spawning from no where and back stabs, the loading is still very unacceptable for a game from 2000, much less 2010 or 11... Sad cause I love the DA world, but the game falls under a 6.0 or 6.5. You cant even romance Avaline! She's not much to look at, but she's cool personality wise!

I feel bitter... VERY BITTER. I've started the 3rd play through basically for the trophy. I didnt want to do a 2nd one just because I felt bored with it from the get go. Hard to feel motivated when you know your choices have no effect. No matter what you do, you cant stop your brother from dying due to him being stupid and you get blamed for his death, your sister gets discovered by templars and you cant fight them to stop her from getting taken, you cant stop your mother from dying, you can get the Aroshok's respect, but still have to fight him, you can side with Orsano and still have to fight him/ or The Knight Commander and still have to fight her, etc.... too many dumb things you should, but have no effect on... What did Bioware work on all this time?! I can't trust Bioware anymore. I'll get ME3 and Im prob done with DA unless they do what they should have all in DA3 if anyone is still a fan of this enough to buy the next one! It took till the 3rd ME before they finally added knives like they should have had ME1! DA2 is finally looking almost like it belongs in this gen, but it still doesnt have a ton of features it should.

Ability to ride horses
Horse battles
Wear Cloaks
Ability to have all party member change armor
ability to visit more than 5 places in the world
blizzard spell back
healing for all mages
better equipment stats
no random spawning that destroys all strategy
no back stabs
real love scenes with nudity
real romancing/ dates etc (why add the romance element and not do anything with it?)
Someone who can model hands
someone that can model cute women
Female Qunari
Female Dwarfs
Weather
Level Dangers
More people to the point the city feels like a real city!
Ability to fight in environments like one would in Uncharted(world is lush, filled with stuff making feel alive or lived in, you can climb stuff...DAO-2 feel very bare)
Finishing moves
2 sword warriors
better character creator with options for body types
better hair options(Never could get hair right, Bioware)
When will your games match your cut scenes?!

It's sad but I've seen better RPGs on the PSP and better Fighters that destroy this game looks, animations, environments looks and size etc... It's sad but sticking to Japanese games seems to be my only option. I can trust their quality and attention to detail. I thought Bioware was the only western company I could always trust, but Im starting to doubt it hard as of late. Bioware games are fun, but you can't trust them to not have a ton of bugs in them or have tons of features taken out. At least Dead Space 2 was perfect. I went the entire game with no glitching! You have to play the game on hardest difficulty with only 3 saves and no check points for a trophy in a game that can kill you at any given second. Guess what? I did it. It's all possible due to a REAL DEV TEAM that test their games!!! If the game could glitch during a run where you cant save for hrs on end, it would be worthless as a title! You dont install the game and it has NO LOADS! Why does EVERY Bioware game have VERY EXTREMELY LONG LOADS?! No one cares you prettied up the load screens that shouldn't be there! If DLC came out for this, it would have to be on the level of god tier for me to even care... I mean new epic story, party with custom armor, 5 new environments, weather, horses, horse battles, cloaks the works!

Game def better than the crap that was DAO(Minus DAO story, I liked the story), but saying it's better than DAO isnt saying much...

Game DA2 6.0 to 6.5
           DAO 4.0 to 4.5

Modifié par aang001, 14 mai 2011 - 03:07 .

[billy the squid]

Alistairlover94 wrote...

Sabriana wrote...

No matter how much time has passed, DA 2 is still the only bioware game that I uninstalled after 1 1/2 play-throughs. I simply couldn't force myself to finish the 2nd one. Sad, really.

So did I. I then re-installed Origins. Please don't flame me, folks *_*

You think thats bad, I played DA2 on the Xbox 360 and I still thought it was bad, when the game was designed to appeal to a broader audience, i.e console gamers and it has failed to have sufficient draw something has gone very, very wrong.  

After playing it once, which was more of a mind numbing slog through the acts, I have no desire to play it again. As an action orientated game I could have forgiven it if the combat had been well done, but I really didn't enjoy even that. It simply felt tedious and frustrating whilst animations were over the top in some attempt to compensate for the feeling that a lot of DAO had been gutted and thrown out or simplified to the bare neccessities.

General comments not directed at anyone in particular.

It's not so much a case of PC elitism, 4 chan trolls, haters and people afraid of change, rather from what I have seen DA2 doesn't appeal to any one group that well, whilst the myriad of bugs and bad graphics for a supposedly AAA rated game which wants to appeal to a broader audience dooms it to be mediocre at best. If you can over look these faults or they are not high on your list of priorities then your opinion of the game will of course be higher than mine.

Having I played DAO on the PC and Xbox 360 along with ME 1+2, I didn't feel that DA2 acknowledged that its predecessor was an RPG which harked back to the days of Baldur's Gate and filled the demand for the more original style. Now, I resent some of the interviews where Mr. Laidlaw has said that RPGs have to evolve or the genre will stagnate. Really? I was 12 when Baldur's gate came out and somehow I found my way to DAO and loved it. Including all the equipment, statistics and everything that could be stereotypically associated with RPGs. 

There was, I believe either a misunderstanding of what the core based wanted on the part of EAware whilst failing to grasp what would have attracted the percieved new audience or, which I think is likely, Mr. Laidlaw didn't like the more traditional style of DAO so he changed direction and sadly seems rather happy with it even if based on sales and the general feeling across many forums a large portion of gamers are not.

"I think the big key is to not adjust 180 degrees again, because we've done this. I think, as a team, we're quite happy with what we've done with Dragon Age II, and this is establishing a solid foundation that keeps a lot, in fact almost everything I want to keep about Origins, but still has tons of room to grow and, frankly, a more viable future for the franchise."

Sadly, I won't get my hopes up for DA3 even if it is released, particularly if Laidlaw is the lead designer as his views on DAO are largely the opposite of mine. I don't think he's a bad chap, I just think he is wrong in the direction he took the game. Luckily CDProjekt with Witcher2 looks to have filled the gap, though I will wait and see if it does deliver.

The experience has also made me wary of Mass effect 3, coupled with the recent EA statement about expanding audience, which seems to imply bastardising game concepts and copious levels of "streamlining" epitomised by the "Button Awesome" of DA2, particularly as ME2 was essentially a shooter with a sprinkling of RPG. I enjoyed it a great deal, but as a TPS not and RPG, If other people don't like FPS and TPS games then I can understand why ME2 may not have had the same appeal, although story wise I think ME did have the edge on ME 2.

Modifié par billy the squid, 14 mai 2011 - 05:01 .

[Sylvius the Mad]

Alistairlover94 wrote...

Sabriana wrote...

No matter how much time has passed, DA 2 is still the only bioware game that I uninstalled after 1 1/2 play-throughs. I simply couldn't force myself to finish the 2nd one. Sad, really.

So did I. I then re-installed Origins. Plese don't flame me, folks *_*

The real question is, why had you uninstalled it in the first place?

[CaptainBlackGold]

billy the squid wrote...

Snipped for brevity

[/i]Sadly, I won't get my hopes up for DA3 even if it is released, particularly if Laidlaw is the lead designer as his views on DAO are largely the opposite of mine. I don't think he's a bad chap, I just think he is wrong in the direction he took the game. Luckily CDProjekt with Witcher2 looks to have filled the gap, though I will wait and see if it does deliver.

Snipped again for brevity

First, to your entire post may I say, "Hallelujah - preach it brother!" with no sarcasm intended.

Secondly, I am not sure how much of Mr. Laidlaw's "enthusiasm" for his game is sincere and how much is just marketing speech - something he needed to say when the game was fresh and they wanted to convince as many people as possible to buy it. He is a talented guy - I really find it hard to believe he believes his own hype. The decision to redesign DA2 happened before he was assigned as lead designer - we know that from the previous lead who left because "the powers that be" wanted to take DA2 in a different direction.

Thirdly, and of course this is all pure, baseless speculation - he was handed a design mandate and then given too few resources and too little time to achieve it. But it is his project and he has to claim ownership - putting the best spin on what he has to know is a sub-par game - I mean, realistically, what else could he say? "Well, I know this offering is not up to Bioware's usual standards, but it's the best we could do with what we had so we hope people will still buy it..."

Fourthly, the fact that DA2 significantly underperformed financially may give the Bioware developers the leverage they need when it comes to DA3 (if in fact they were rushed by the suits). I think we will have a glimpse of whether they heard the fans when we see what kind of story based DLC they offer.

Finally, my kids bought me a pre-order of the The Witcher Two for my birthday - but really, no matter how good it may be on its own, for me it can never substitute for a good Bioware game. I do not like playing a fixed character, I do not like twitch based combat, I do not like having no companions...

If DA2 had been what it could have been, what it SHOULD have been, then I would still be playing it and not looking forward to TW2's release this coming week -

[Mezinger]

I'm giving serious thought to playing DA:O again... maybe a Dwarf Warrior, Shield and Axe.... I don't believe I've ever played that one.... and waiting for L.A. Noire is too tough... I need some escapism from my L.A. Noire anticipation. 

Modifié par Mezinger, 14 mai 2011 - 05:12 .

[neppakyo]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Alistairlover94 wrote...

Sabriana wrote...

No matter how much time has passed, DA 2 is still the only bioware game that I uninstalled after 1 1/2 play-throughs. I simply couldn't force myself to finish the 2nd one. Sad, really.

So did I. I then re-installed Origins. Plese don't flame me, folks *_*

The real question is, why had you uninstalled it in the first place?

Bad Ali! *shakes a finger at her*

And I concur with Sylvius' statement. Why? Hehe. Whenever I re-install windows, after the drivers and updates, Origins is the first thing installed, then copy the backup from the old doc folder over.

@CaptainBlackCigars

I do like games like TW2, I don't mind a single fix character like geralt if the story is done well. But yeah, I'd prefer more games like DA:O personally.