258 réponses à ce sujet

[Xilizhra]

Funny, I always wished there was a way to "betray" Carver at the end. Templar Carver truly deserves to die. But the only opportunities to send him to the other side so he can brood and troll the Maker in person is years earlier, when he's still technically innocent. *grumble*

Well, he does change sides, though the fact that he willingly participates in the Annulment to begin with is fairly damning. I find it an interesting plot point, but I also find it depressing, hence my canon mage has him as a Warden.

[Rifneno]

Xilizhra wrote...

Well, he does change sides, though the fact that he willingly participates in the Annulment to begin with is fairly damning. I find it an interesting plot point, but I also find it depressing, hence my canon mage has him as a Warden.

Exactly my problem.  Every templar that participated in the RoA deserves to die.  Every single one, without exception.  That a few cowards such as Cullen and Carver didn't have the testicular fortitude to stand up to the Champion of Kirkwall as they did to people begging for their lives doesn't mean a thing to me.  Too little, too late, too gutless.

[Augustei]

Xilizhra wrote...
They committed genocide on a fairly large part of the city's population. That the rest of the city liked it makes the rest of the city willing advocates of evil and I consider their opinion to be of no consequence.

Yes, How dare they not wish to have pride demons continue to run loose as they have already experienced, how dare they not wish to defy the cities largest and only army besides the minor faction that is the city guard, how dare they not wish an Exalted March declared on their city, how dare they follow the logic educated and pushed on them for the past thousand years.. Merediths actions may not be justified but the peoples can be.

Rifneno wrote...
*snip*

No I didnt miss the 5 nobles words that i should be viscount or the actions of a single knight from the followup quest. I didn't miss as well however, that Kirkwalls population extends beyond 5 people. Andrasitan people who for the past thousand years have been taught to follow the templars side of things, that all love their grand cleric that was just killed.

Asunder didn't take place until two years after DA2, and the people of Kirkwall dont have the magical power of forsight to forsee that the Templars wouldn't be able to march on them.
Even so, they still can after Asunder.. Since an Exalted March involves more than Templars and just because the mages have escaped and some people may sympathize doesn't mean the templars are without allies.

Which is against Chantry laws, but whatever, that's the least of their crimes

Is it against chantry law?

Funny, I always wished there was a way to "betray" Carver at the end.
Templar Carver truly deserves to die. But the only opportunities to
send him to the other side so he can brood and troll the Maker in person
is years earlier, when he's still technically innocent. *grumble*

Truely deserves to die? Insubordination means death so its understandable he didn't betray his Commander when surronded by her army anyway.. He's not guilty of anything when he is a templar.. Except following his commanders orders in an Annulment that is legal according to DG. We didn't witness him kill anybody either unless Hawke sides with the Templars. He was simply the Knight-Commanders Honor Guard.

Modifié par XxDeonxX, 24 février 2012 - 05:05 .

[Rifneno]

XxDeonxX wrote...

No I didnt miss the 5 nobles words that i should be viscount or the actions of a single knight from the followup quest. I didn't miss as well however, that Kirkwalls population extends beyond 5 people. Andrasitan people who for the past thousand years have been taught to follow the templars side of things, that all love their grand cleric that was just killed.

People will care a lot more about templar death squads murdering unarmed woman in broad daylight for giving her cousin a sandwich and a couch for the night than they do whatever was being taught 800 years ago. As for loving Grand Wizard Elthina, it doesn't matter. Because anyone that's blaming prisoners in the Gallows for Anders' action based on him sharing a gene is a prejudice idiot.

Asunder didn't take place until two years after DA2, and the people of Kirkwall dont have the magical power of forsight to forsee that the Templars wouldn't be able to march on them.

I assumed we were using magical foresight since there's no way that the people of Kirkwall would know that a crusade was even being considered. That was a secret only known by a handful of people in the city.

Even so, they still can after Asunder.. Since an Exalted March involves more than Templars and just because the mages have escaped and some people may sympathize doesn't mean the templars are without allies.

They'd be without brains to attack Kirkwall. It would cost much in the way of resources and lives as well as alienate a good portion of Thedas. The reason that the common man is brought up to support templars is because they're told mages will come and murder the hell out of everyone if left unchecked. If they see instead that the templars also murder the hell out of everyone, then they're not supporting them anymore. And the benefit of losing so much resources, lives, and public support is... what? Vengeance? Yeah, that's totally worth it. Right.

No. Crushing Kirkwall after Asunder would be jawdroppingly, brainmelting, soulcrushingly retarded.

Truely deserves to die? Insubordination means death so its understandable he didn't betray his Commander when surronded by her army anyway.. He's not guilty of anything when he is a templar.. Except following his commanders orders in an Annulment that is legal according to DG. We didn't witness him kill anybody either unless Hawke sides with the Templars. He was simply the Knight-Commanders Honor Guard.

Google "Nuremberg Trials" some time. I'll give you the cliff notes: "I was under orders" doesn't morally absolve people from butchering helpless civilians en masse.

[EmperorSahlertz]

XxDeonxX wrote...

EmperorSahlertz wrote...
then I'd say it would mean that the Warden did the ritual with Morrigan,
since for Urthemiel to have a reflection in the Fade, would require it
to be alive.

Where did you get this concept from? Sten's dead  Berasaad members show up in his fade dream, And its uncertain if the OGB is capable of even taking on a Dragons form atm since its just its soul in a human body... I mean maybe through shapeshifting but that would require studying an Old God which isnt to easy since they buried under a fair few miles of rock. And the Archdemon in the dream was corrupted whereas urthemiel is not anymore so it cant be a reflection of Urthemiel and would not require the OGB to be alive to show up in the dream

As i said first, I don't think that what they encounter in the Fade is actually Uthremiel, but rather just a demon reflecting some traumatic event in Wynne's life. But that if it was the actual reflection of urthemiel, I'd say it would speak for the Warden having done the ritual.
Those dead Berassad members are not the actual souls of Sten's companions, but just demons playing with his mind.

[jackofalltrades456]

XxDeonxX wrote...

Yes, How dare they not wish to have pride demons continue to run loose as they have already experienced, how dare they not wish to defy the cities largest and only army besides the minor faction that is the city guard, how dare they not wish an Exalted March declared on their city, how dare they follow the logic educated and pushed on them for the past thousand years.. Merediths actions may not be justified but the peoples can be.

I couldn't agree more.  Yes, Meredith was one of the main reasons the Mages Circle was so out of control in the first place, but the Circle was far from pure. Just look at the final battle! There were pride demons running around like it was the bloody Fade. Blood mages, demons and abominations were running rampant throughout the city. Most of the mages seem to turn on you anyway. I think even Anders admits that most of them have turned to blood magic.  I felt like only Bethany and those mages you spare in the Gallows were the only ones in the city that weren't crazed blood mages. 

I hated Carver. I left him behind on my mage playthrough and was happy to have him out of my party.  Bethany was different. I loved having her in my party and made her a Grey Warden just so I could get her back on my Templar playthrough. I hated how they gave you the option to betray her, but not Carver.

I'm not saying I would kill Carver, but the option would be nice.

Modifié par jackofalltrades456, 24 février 2012 - 05:55 .

[Rifneno]

jackofalltrades456 wrote...

Yes, Meredith was one of the main reasons the Mages Circle was so out of control in the first place, but the Circle was far from pure. Just look at the final battle! There were pride demons running around like it was the bloody Fade. Blood mages, demons and abominations were running rampant throughout the city. Most of the mages seem to turn on you anyway. I think even Anders admits that most of them have turned to blood magic.

Which is because the Chantry placed the Circle somewhere that Tevinter shredded the Veil over a thousand years ago. Which was either stunningly incompetent or shockingly evil. Either way, the blame lays on the Chantry for forcibly locking mages in a place that'll drive all but the strongest willed ones insane.

[Xilizhra]

And the fact that the templars are now running around killing mages willy-nilly probably hasn't helped the Fade scenario either. Not to mention that the templars seem to be doing nothing whatsoever about the demon issue, other than attacking one abomination that they forced into being themselves.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Rifneno wrote...

jackofalltrades456 wrote...

Yes, Meredith was one of the main reasons the Mages Circle was so out of control in the first place, but the Circle was far from pure. Just look at the final battle! There were pride demons running around like it was the bloody Fade. Blood mages, demons and abominations were running rampant throughout the city. Most of the mages seem to turn on you anyway. I think even Anders admits that most of them have turned to blood magic.

Which is because the Chantry placed the Circle somewhere that Tevinter shredded the Veil over a thousand years ago. Which was either stunningly incompetent or shockingly evil. Either way, the blame lays on the Chantry for forcibly locking mages in a place that'll drive all but the strongest willed ones insane.

No matter where you place a Circle, the veil would eventually weaken, so there really is no use of trying to place a Circle someplace where the veil isn't weakened, unless you plan on constantly relocating it.
Also, the weakened veil helps the mages do their magic so apparently it is, partially at least, because it aids the mages in mastering their arts.

[Xilizhra]

Well, this particular weakened Veil was also tainted by thousands of sacrifices and the city of Kirkwall itself being an evil glyph.

[jackofalltrades456]

It doesn't matter why it happened. It still happened and the damage has been done. It doesn't matter if it was a weakened Veil, Meredith's zealotry, or Corypheus (I think they said somewhere in the Legacy DLC that Corypheus's proximity to Kirkwall causes some of craziness and violence).

I'm all for mage rights ,but when you have mostly blood mages and demons running around the city killing everything in sight, I'm more likely to side with the Templar.

Modifié par jackofalltrades456, 24 février 2012 - 07:41 .

[Xilizhra]

Erm, templars are doing more killing everything in sight. There's a grand total of one blood mage at the docks, and a few others hiding in the Gallows itself.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Xilizhra wrote...

Well, this particular weakened Veil was also tainted by thousands of sacrifices and the city of Kirkwall itself being an evil glyph.

Which you would have to have studied ancient Tevinter arcana to recognize, and even then there was nothing to indicate that the glyph was having any effect. It could all just seem like coincidences, since The Undercity was build like a maze, I doubt that anyone ever really explored as far as the Band of Three, and I really doubt the Templars had knowledge of the Forgotten One being unleashed beneath Kirkwall.

[Xilizhra]

So the templars are really good at abusing their helpless charges, but really bad at detecting blood mage conspiracies to summon extremely powerful demonic progenitors? Bang-up job there.

[TEWR]

jackofalltrades456 wrote...

(I think they said somewhere in the Legacy DLC that Corypheus's proximity to Kirkwall causes some of craziness and violence).

That codex is just wrong given the fact that Larius explicitly states that Corypheus can only influence creatures that bear the taint.

[EmperorSahlertz]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

jackofalltrades456 wrote...

(I think they said somewhere in the Legacy DLC that Corypheus's proximity to Kirkwall causes some of craziness and violence).

That codex is just wrong given the fact that Larius explicitly states that Corypheus can only influence creatures that bear the taint.

larius is obviously wrong, since Corypheus influenced some Carta Dwarves to seek out his prison, and the Dwarves certainly weren't Grey Wardens or Darkspawn. I'm guessing Corypheus has an easier time influencing tainted beings, but can influence anyone, given enough time.

[Wolf]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

jackofalltrades456 wrote...

(I think they said somewhere in the Legacy DLC that Corypheus's proximity to Kirkwall causes some of craziness and violence).

That codex is just wrong given the fact that Larius explicitly states that Corypheus can only influence creatures that bear the taint.

larius is obviously wrong, since Corypheus influenced some Carta Dwarves to seek out his prison, and the Dwarves certainly weren't Grey Wardens or Darkspawn. I'm guessing Corypheus has an easier time influencing tainted beings, but can influence anyone, given enough time.

Given the fact that he was once a magister and likely a blood mage it seems possible.

[TEWR]

larius is obviously wrong, since Corypheus influenced some Carta Dwarves to seek out his prison, and the Dwarves certainly weren't Grey Wardens or Darkspawn. I'm guessing Corypheus has an easier time influencing tainted beings, but can influence anyone, given enough time.

You're wrong now, considering Janeka flat out states if you side with her that she sided with the Carta and brought them there.

[Tommyspa]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

larius is obviously wrong, since Corypheus influenced some Carta Dwarves to seek out his prison, and the Dwarves certainly weren't Grey Wardens or Darkspawn. I'm guessing Corypheus has an easier time influencing tainted beings, but can influence anyone, given enough time.

You're wrong now, considering Janeka flat out states if you side with her that she sided with the Carta and brought them there.

Right and about the Carta Dwarves in particular, they were also taking in the taint. (Look at their eyes they have the soulless look we expect with ghouls.)

Modifié par Tommyspa, 25 février 2012 - 07:56 .

[Lazy Jer]

Wow...this thread has gotten just a touch of topic.

[Lazy Jer]

Karol888 wrote...

Hi Everyone, What I should to do in order to kill Merrill ? Which one quest I have to do or not ?

If you must know, you have to get to the endgame without 100% rivalry or friendship with Merrill and then side with the Templars.  I think that's all you have to do.

[dragonflight288]

Hi Everyone, What I should to do in order to kill Merrill ? Which one quest I have to do or not ?

Why would anyone want to kill Merill?

To answer you question, however, it's the very last quest. You have to side with the templars in murdering every mage for a crime they had absolutely no involvement in, have a low friendship/rivalry because she'll side with the mages otherwise, and then you'll kill her in battle.

Just like you can kill Fenris in the reverse situation.

[RampantAndroid]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

frustratemyself wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

*starts crying uncontrollably because of that Merrill killing clip*


why would anyone want to kill her?!


*continues sobbing*

We need a reason?

there is no reason to want to kill her. If you wanted to smack her I'd be ok with that, but killing her just makes me a very sad panda.


And when i'm a sad panda, I can't start my panda famiry now. (cookie to the person who knows what movie I'm talking about there)

Like Anders, she doesn't shut up. Oh, and the "I can control blood magic!" crap. I didn't like her, and never let her into my party. But I hated Anders too. And Fenris got a little annoying (but was at least logical.) Similarly, I disliked the prince guy. In the ME games, about the only character I HATE is Jack. In DAO/DA2, about half of the party gets on my nerves.

[Thriff]

Merrill is the powerful demon from Sundermount in disguise. She has to be killed.