258 réponses à ce sujet

[dragonflight288]

She doesn't get friendship points for selling out Feynriel. She gets friendship points if we listen to the demon, and use that knowledge. She isn't against betraying the demon and killing it AFTER we have the information.

[Kaiser Shepard]

SilentK wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

If you don't do the quest to get the Arulin'Holm in Act 2, is it still possible to do Merrill's Act 3 quest and rivalmance her?

You can do the q and then choose not to give it to her the Arulin'Holm.

I know that much, I'm just wondering what happens if Hawke goes all stoic on Merril at the beginning of the would-be quest and just leaves it at that.

[SilentK]

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

SilentK wrote...

Kaiser Shepard wrote...

If you don't do the quest to get the Arulin'Holm in Act 2, is it still possible to do Merrill's Act 3 quest and rivalmance her?

You can do the q and then choose not to give it to her the Arulin'Holm.

I know that much, I'm just wondering what happens if Hawke goes all stoic on Merril at the beginning of the would-be quest and just leaves it at that.

Hmmm.... don't know. Get back on the forum and tell if you try that       =)      hmmm..... I would go with not giving it to her. She get's pretty irritated, but she's cute when angry     =)    have fun

[Ryzaki]

dragonflight288 wrote...

She doesn't get friendship points for selling out Feynriel. She gets friendship points if we listen to the demon, and use that knowledge. She isn't against betraying the demon and killing it AFTER we have the information.

Yes she is if you have Anders in the party. 

[Xilizhra]

Something of which I've never seen any indication, despite testing that scene. How odd.

Of course, Isabela gains rivalry points for selling Fenris into slavery, which is basically her thinking that Hawke is a better person. And Anders thinks you're more of a Circle partisan when you deal with demons. The relationship system doesn't always make sense.

[Ryzaki]

I have always without fail gotten rivalry points for killing Torpor with Anders and Merrill in the party. Always. I'll youtube it if you really want it.

[erilben]

dragonflight288 wrote...

She doesn't get friendship points for selling out Feynriel. She gets friendship points if we listen to the demon, and use that knowledge. She isn't against betraying the demon and killing it AFTER we have the information.

It has nothing to do with listening through with what the demon has to say. If you accept the demon's offer, you get friendship points from Merrill. If you don't accept the offer, the only way to avoid gaining rivalry with Merrill is to have Anders is with you.

[erilben]

Ryzaki wrote...

I have always without fail gotten rivalry points for killing Torpor with Anders and Merrill in the party. Always. I'll youtube it if you really want it.

I think it's just that if you at any time pick the option on the left side of the wheel that says "I don't work with demons", you get rivalry from Merrill.

If you go through agree with the offer, you get 3 options to pick your reward. These options gives friendship points with Merrill.

If you bring Anders and show interst in the offer, Justice threatens to attack you. You can pick "Anders is right" here which gets you to attack the demon. That let's you avoid the "I don't work with demons" option, so you gain no rivalry from Merrill. This is the only way I've seen to avoid  rivalry gain if you don't deal with the demon.

[TEWR]

Ryzaki wrote...

I have always without fail gotten rivalry points for killing Torpor with Anders and Merrill in the party. Always. I'll youtube it if you really want it.

Merrill gives friendship for listening to the demon and using him to get more information on the other demons, which means you have to say "Sure I'll work with you." But Merrill cautions you I know at least in the Deep Roads that you need to be on your guard when working with demons. That you can use them to your advantage.

She gives friendship for saying you'll work with the demon and let him possess Feynriel. She doesn't give friendship for you actually letting Torpor possess Feynriel.

When the time comes for Torpor to possess Feynriel at the end of the quest, you say "You're safe" which screws up Torpor's plans.

[dragonflight288]

Merrill gives friendship for listening to the demon and using him to get more information on the other demons, which means you have to say "Sure I'll work with you." But Merrill cautions you I know at least in the Deep Roads that you need to be on your guard when working with demons. That you can use them to your advantage.

She gives friendship for saying you'll work with the demon and let him possess Feynriel. She doesn't give friendship for you actually letting Torpor possess Feynriel.

When the time comes for Torpor to possess Feynriel at the end of the quest, you say "You're safe" which screws up Torpor's plans.

Exactly. Letting Torpor possess him is not guaranteed if you agree to his terms. When you see Torpor trying to possess Feynriel, we can interfere and Merrill is all for preventing the possession.

[erilben]

dragonflight288 wrote...

Merrill gives friendship for listening to the demon and using him to get more information on the other demons, which means you have to say "Sure I'll work with you." But Merrill cautions you I know at least in the Deep Roads that you need to be on your guard when working with demons. That you can use them to your advantage.

She gives friendship for saying you'll work with the demon and let him possess Feynriel. She doesn't give friendship for you actually letting Torpor possess Feynriel.

When the time comes for Torpor to possess Feynriel at the end of the quest, you say "You're safe" which screws up Torpor's plans.

Exactly. Letting Torpor possess him is not guaranteed if you agree to his terms. When you see Torpor trying to possess Feynriel, we can interfere and Merrill is all for preventing the possession.

You can't even get Merrill to that point where Torpor possess Fenyriel because she always falls to the Pride demon.

You can go through all of Torpor's dialog, learn all the information he has. Ask about the other demons, what the deal involves, and what you can get out of the deal. It makes no difference to Merril. You can get down to the final dialog wheel to make the choice, and all it comes down to is if you agree to take the offer or not. When you agree with offer, all Merrill says is "Be cautious. Demons don't always keep their promises" and gives +5 friendship. She doesn't seem to care you going to sell out the boy's soul. She's just worried the demon may not keep his promise.

[RangerSG]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

The thing is most people blame Merrill for what transpired with her clan, saying she doesn't know what the Eluvian can do and other such nonsense.

She does. She states not only in banter with Varric but in the beginning of Mirror Image how it was at the very least used to communicate between cities and that all elven cities had one. She doesn't know how, but then again this is a 2000 year old artifact from the times of Arlathan. Not even Ariane, the elf whose clan held a book regarding the Eluvian, knew what it was. So Merrill already knows a lot more than anyone else, and she knows if she can get it working it will help the clans out greatly.

People need to look past the blood magic (which isn't inherently evil) and the fact that she's socially awkward in a human city. She's only seen 1 human before, and that was Duncan, so the fact that she doesn't know how to act is natural. Amongst her clan she's more confident. Outside of it she isn't.

She definitely knows more than Marethari, or have people never heard of "the student surpassing the master"?

Agreed. It's surprising Marethari reacts viscerally to blood magic, seeing as many of the Elvhen rites seem to have contained it. She seems to have been infected with shem thinking on this point.

Merill is quite honest about the personal risks throughout, and of course, she's 100% right about Anders underestimating the difference in real terms between being spirit-possessed and demon-possessed outside the Fade.

[TEWR]

erilben wrote...

dragonflight288 wrote...

Merrill gives friendship for listening to the demon and using him to get more information on the other demons, which means you have to say "Sure I'll work with you." But Merrill cautions you I know at least in the Deep Roads that you need to be on your guard when working with demons. That you can use them to your advantage.

She gives friendship for saying you'll work with the demon and let him possess Feynriel. She doesn't give friendship for you actually letting Torpor possess Feynriel.

When the time comes for Torpor to possess Feynriel at the end of the quest, you say "You're safe" which screws up Torpor's plans.

Exactly. Letting Torpor possess him is not guaranteed if you agree to his terms. When you see Torpor trying to possess Feynriel, we can interfere and Merrill is all for preventing the possession.

You can't even get Merrill to that point where Torpor possess Fenyriel because she always falls to the Pride demon.

You can go through all of Torpor's dialog, learn all the information he has. Ask about the other demons, what the deal involves, and what you can get out of the deal. It makes no difference to Merril. You can get down to the final dialog wheel to make the choice, and all it comes down to is if you agree to take the offer or not. When you agree with offer, all Merrill says is "Be cautious. Demons don't always keep their promises" and gives +5 friendship. She doesn't seem to care you going to sell out the boy's soul. She's just worried the demon may not keep his promise.

So she should reiterate the same point she's said throughout the game numerous times before for the player to know how she feels? She does care about Feynriel. She tells him in Act 1 that the Dalish would accept him for who he is, not for his magic. She does care about Feynriel. And IIRC (though I'm not sure), the demon never stated that Hawke would get his reward after he possessed Feynriel, just that he would be rewarded.

If people want to believe she's a callous, cold-hearted person then they've played a different game with a different elven woman named Merrill.

[jlb524]

Merrill just likes trolling demons...

That makes her a good person, right? Right?

[Collider]

I'll never understand the fascination with killing party members.

[LobselVith8]

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

How do you know that Marethari havn't researched Eluvians?

The fact that she thinks the shard of the Eluvian is still corrupted when Merrill is perfectly fine and we've seen the elves corrupted with darkspawn disease from the shards of the Eluvian in Witch Hunt should be sufficient.

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

She is a Keeper, she most likely have studied them. Marethari at elast knew that the demon inside was playing Merrill, something Merrill neglected, or didn't care about, as long as the mirror was restored.

Looks more like Audacity played Marethari.

EmperorSahlertz wrote...

Indeed. She wants nothing to do with it. Ie. that Eluvian in particular. It had already cost her two of her clan, she knew the mirror was corrupted, and best left forgotten, Merrill on the other hand was convinced it contained some sort of hidden knowledge, and would pay any price for it.

When it was tainted, which Merrill removed with blood magic. And Gaider already stated Merrill studied lore and extrapolated information from the shard when she was building the Eluvian. And Merrill would pay the price of her own life to help the People.

[jlb524]

Collider wrote...

I'll never understand the fascination with killing party members.

I personally don't like doing it (I can't even kill Anders), but I guess it's a way to express the hatred you have for a pixelated character.

LobselVith8 wrote...
The fact that she thinks the shard of the Eluvian is still corrupted when Merrill is perfectly fine and we've seen the elves corrupted with darkspawn disease from the shards of the Eluvian in Witch Hunt should be sufficient.

Well, she tells the clan that Merrill will bring back the taint from the Eluvian.  However, she's also aware that Merrill used blood magic to cleanse it. 

So...something isn't right with Marethari's stories.

Modifié par jlb524, 27 mai 2011 - 07:10 .

[adneate]

Collider wrote...
I'll never understand the fascination with killing party members.

Annoying characters make me, the player, suffer and there is no greater crime than that. Killing them so that they never bother me again is but a small piece of justice.

Like burning Jar-Jar Binks at the stake after chopping his eyes off with bolt cutters for Star War Ep 1. I'll never get that piece of my soul back but his death would bring me the kind of joy that movie never did.

[jlb524]

However, just by the fact that they are killable, you will probably never see them again anyway.

[adneate]

jlb524 wrote...
However, just by the fact that they are killable, you will probably never see them again anyway.

Not good enough, they have to suffer for annoying me in my free time. I'll never get those moments I wasted listening to Anders whine about Mages or Fenris act like someone out of a Twilight novel. At least when I killed them I could say I had at least one good memory of the time I spent with them.

[Collider]

I personally don't like doing it (I can't even kill Anders), but I guess it's a way to express the hatred you have for a pixelated character.

If the game is doing things right, you should be able to do so anyway without killing them. This is actually what I dislike most about the interactions with Garrus - you could have been racist to him in ME1 because he's a turian, but in ME2 he's treated like Shepard's best friend.

I also don't hate virtual characters.

[EmperorSahlertz]

Does Merrill protest if you give Feynriel to Topor?

[EmperorSahlertz]

jlb524 wrote...

However, just by the fact that they are killable, you will probably never see them again anyway.

I guess that is why Wrex, Garrus, Tali, Thane, Legion, Miranda, Jacob, Ashley/Kaidan and Samara are all gonna show up in ME3, provided they survived previous events. If anything, BioWare has shown a remarkable interest in bringing back their characters for sequels, because they know the fans love/hate them.