279 réponses à ce sujet

[Sylvius the Mad]

Alistairlover94 wrote...

Really? BG1? I thought it would be BG2.

Not at all.

BG1 allowed far more freedom in designing the PC's personality, the quests were revealed far more organically, and the game allowed free exploration.  It also had a shallower power curve, which itself solved many of the exploration/scaling problems that plague modern games.

Not to mention that I think AD&D rules just work better at low levels.

On that open exploration, BG2 was the first BioWare game to establish the pattern of only letting the player go where the game thought he had a reason to go, and BG2 actually did it fairly badly.  NWN felt more open because there were in-setting reasons why you couldn't leave Neverwinter, and then when you did you could literally wander off in any direction.  But we didn't get back the ability to just take off somewhere for no reason at all until Mass Effect, which granted open exploration to and of the Uncharted Worlds.  Sadly, that "throw-back", as UpsettingShorts would call it, lasted just the one game.

[Mr.House]

Story: 6: good concept, better then DAO boring main story(imho) better pacing but it is flawed and needed more work. Poor job with the illusion of choice.
graphics: 7
Combat: 8

[Apollo Starflare]

The EA argument makes no sense to me. Jade Empire featured many elements that a lot of people around here would seemingly consider 'dumbed down' (etc), but it came out pre-EA. BioWare just like to try different things now and then? I agree that DA2 was rushed, but we can't know the details surrounding that and it obviously isn't the new rule (see: ME3).

Edit: @Autolycus: Another Norwich fan? Here? *tips hat* Canaries in the Prem once again.

Modifié par Apollo Starflare, 10 mai 2011 - 11:31 .

[Abispa]

@ Apollo Starflare -- It's kind of like having a grandparent to who dies from cancer a year after a nuclear power plant moves in. The two may not be related, but family members have an easy target for their anger and grief.

Modifié par Abispa, 10 mai 2011 - 11:32 .

[Mr.House]

Apollo Starflare wrote...

The EA argument makes no sense to me. Jade Empire featured many elements that a lot of people around here would seemingly consider 'dumbed down' (etc), but it came out pre-EA. BioWare just like to try different things now and then? I agree that DA2 was rushed, but we can't know the details surrounding that and it obviously isn't the new rule (see: ME3).

That's because of Mike(who was also part of the JE team). EA can be blamed for the rushness of the game, but the design issues and the "streamlinnig" can be put on Mike,.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Upsettingshorts wrote...

Wheras to me the game reacting to a story decision is key to what I want out of BioWare gameplay.

What of the games where there are no story decisions to be made?  Would you be content to play a character of the writers' design with no input into who he was or what he was doing things?

I certainly wouldn't.  Some games have really linear stories (Jade Empire), but that doesn't mean they lack roleplaying opportunities.  Why you do something is as important (I might even say moreso) as what you do.

You seem to be asking for the ability to have the game react to what you do, and that makes perfect sense.  But beyond that, if the game doesn't ask you what to do (as the new BioWare games don't, for example), I'm saying they should give you the space to determine for yourself why you're doing that thing.

[neppakyo]

... I didn't mind the Mako..

[mousestalker]

Did Bioware fulfill her goats? Why kind of question is that? Since when do gaming companies own livestock? And since when does anyone having anything to do with livestock have anything to do with New Agey nonsense like fulfillment?

All anyone ever want from goats is milk, skins and meat, and in that order. No one really thinks anything more about goats unless they are those fainting goats you can buy. If you haven't seen them in action they are what rednecks in rural Georgia consider to be high entertainment.

Are fainting goats the next new thing to be brought to us by Bioware? If so I blame EA. This goes to show what half baked notions these conglomerates can sink money into...

Oh. It's goals, not goats. Nevermind...

[Sylvius the Mad]

Alistairlover94 wrote...

Actually, now that I think about it, BG1 DID have more exploration than BG2. I forgot that. Guess it's because I haven't played either BG game(nor the expansions) since I was 16.

I was 24 when BG came out.

And the Mako was terrible! Shame on you for liking it!

I did like the Mako, but that's not what I'm talking about.  I'm talking about the ability to visit a planet for no reason of which the game is aware, and then land and wander about as you see fit.  Mako or not, that's a good feature, and one I want to see in pretty much every game all of the time.

[erynnar]

ishmaeltheforsaken wrote...

Alistairlover94 wrote...

And how is DA2's story not cliche? And the "rise to power" story has been done far, far better in other stuff. At least Origins executed its cliches well.

You may have missed it, but "rise to power" is not DAII's story.

No piddling around while gobbing off your handsome/beautiful/pretty boyfriend/girlfriend while Kirkwall burns is the real story. I don't think that is what BioWare intended it to be...but that's what it ended up being.

[upsettingshorts]

The MAKO wasn't bad.  The persistent extreme geometry of the Uncharted World was.

Imagine if the only time you had to use the MAKO was on plot worlds.  A lot less headache, wasn't it?

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

What of the games where there are no story decisions to be made?  Would you be content to play a character of the writers' design with no input into who he was or what he was doing things?

Depends.  I would say - generally - that I enjoy them less.  Or am not interested in them at all.

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

I certainly wouldn't.  Some games have really linear stories (Jade Empire), but that doesn't mean they lack roleplaying opportunities.  Why you do something is as important (I might even say moreso) as what you do.

I agree to an extent, and I think DA2 was better at this than DAO, if only because there were many more compelling questions for compelling "whys."

Granted, and I think this is related to In Exile's position, I was substantially less "hooked" by the Warden/Blight premise.  That and the quest hubs were so unrelated to each other - beyond "because Blight" - that it was less enjoyable for me to come up with a character who fit into the world, whose opinions were forged and tested by their environment. 

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

You seem to be asking for the ability to have the game react to what you do, and that makes perfect sense.  But beyond that, if the game doesn't ask you what to do (as the new BioWare games don't, for example), I'm saying they should give you the space to determine for yourself why you're doing that thing.

Hm.  I felt like DA2 did react to my character's personality in tangible ways.  The easiest to describe would be the companion Friend/Rivalry setup.  However, it has its flaws too.  

I viewed DA2 as a history, being told by Varric, in which quests are offered because Hawke already did them.  I'm getting to determine how and why he/she did what he/she did.  The game doesn't often actively contradict my imagined reasons why, either.

All that being said, I think I'd agree that BioWare hasn't gotten it right - in terms of what I want - yet, but I feel as though they are heading that way.  I think DA2 does a pretty good job, but not as good a job as I expected prelaunch with the single location and Act structure.  Alpha Protocol and The Witcher accomplished some aspects of it better in some ways. 

Modifié par Upsettingshorts, 10 mai 2011 - 11:42 .

[Mr.House]

You don't really wander off. You explored a rocky square place with bases the same as the other bases you just visited. It was not really that noteworthy or well done.

[Mr.House]

Alistairlover94 wrote...

neppakyo wrote...

... I didn't mind the Mako..

Opinions are like testicles: Everyone has a pair(except for me), you kick them hard enough, it doesn't matter how many you got.

So you don't have opinions?

[Abispa]

Alistairlover94 wrote...

neppakyo wrote...

... I didn't mind the Mako..

Opinions are like testicles: Everyone has a pair(except for me), you kick them hard enough, it doesn't matter how many you got.

Krogans have quads. Shows how much Varric knows. Damn that chest hair.

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

Alistairlover94 is the objective arbiter of all thoughts and opinions.

Plus, I'd say she's a woman.

[Abispa]

Mr.House wrote...

Alistairlover94 wrote...

neppakyo wrote...

... I didn't mind the Mako..

Opinions are like testicles: Everyone has a pair(except for me), you kick them hard enough, it doesn't matter how many you got.

So you don't have opinions?

I hate myself for not catching that first.

[A Crusty Knight Of Colour]

Alistairlover94 wrote...

Mr.House wrote...

Alistairlover94 wrote...

neppakyo wrote...

... I didn't mind the Mako..

Opinions are like testicles: Everyone has a pair(except for me), you kick them hard enough, it doesn't matter how many you got.

So you don't have opinions?

No. Only assumptions. On a good day, cold hard facts.

I bow to your constant impartiality.

[upsettingshorts]

Hey, I'm the expert on affecting impartiality around here.