Aller au contenu

Photo

DA2'S Three Promised Improvements: Did Bioware fulfill her goals?


  • Veuillez vous connecter pour répondre
279 réponses à ce sujet

#126
A Crusty Knight Of Colour

A Crusty Knight Of Colour
  • Members
  • 7 472 messages
Lol, ery. It's like we overcompensate with massive walls of text when we know we've derailed the thread a bit too much.

:wub:

But it's not like Dragon Age 2 didn't have choices. There were plenty of choices to made... just that most of them led to the same conclusion. Many doors leading to the same room, as I like to call it.

IMO, fundamental to any good wRPG for me is Choices, Consequences and the Cohesion of gameplay and narrative. Or the three Cs. If you have those elements, the player can really feel like they are interacting and impacting the game world, as opposed to watching a pre-scripted narrative.

I mean, an RPG can get away with not having those things, but it has to have something else that makes it worth it. Dragon Age 2 imo, does not.

Modifié par mrcrusty, 11 mai 2011 - 02:33 .


#127
TEWR

TEWR
  • Members
  • 16 989 messages
story - 6
At first you appreciate it and think it's great, but after repeated playthroughs it becomes bland. It's still fun, and I enjoy playing it still, but there was a lot that could've been done. My main gripe is that we were told (by Mike Laidlaw oddly enough), that we could choose how the ending played out. Yet we were given two choices. Pro-mage and Pro-Templar. And both end the same way. There wasn't even a Pro-Kirkwall or a Sod off choice. There are barely any decisions made in game that affect how it can play out. Off the top of my head the only one that comes to mind is your sibling's fate after Act 1. If you help Grace, she still goes insane because Templars caught her while she was living in the woods. If you're on the run from Templars in Kirkwall you're not going to want to stay in the Kirkwall area. Dumb b****
Graphics - 9
I'm expecting people to hate me for saying this because it's my opinion, but I liked how the graphics looked. People were upset that outside Lothering was all brown. Ferelden had been described in DA:O as being mostly brown, and for Christ's sake there was a Blight. The land wasn't going to be all sunshines and rainbows.
Then there are the elves. Why people hate them I don't know. Why everytime I see a post that says the elves look horrendous I also see "they look like the Na'vi!!", I don't know. Can't I find one post that doesn't make that connection that doesn't work at all? Nope never going to happen. They look nothing like the Na'vi. I enjoy the new look of the elves because in Origins they were shorter humans with pointy ears. That was it. Kossith were just taller humans with pointy ears and a very stoic attitude. That was it. Now they have their own appearance. People were told many, MANY months before DA2 was released that the elves were being redesigned.


Posted Image


How does that....

http://go.redirectin...m/wiki/Athenril

and this....


Posted Image

look like that? The ears are the only similarity.


The combat - 8

I enjoy the faster combat, but it is not without flaws. I've posted before on a few threads how 2 handed warriors could be better. Instead of swinging the sword like a toothpick at level 1, have them swing it somewhat slowly but as they level up their attack speed gets greater as you up their strength stat.

Mages and Archers are perfect right now. I saw on one thread how someone hated how DA2 made archers fire a whole quiver of arrows into the sky. That's not new to the series. Awakening did that too. Mages can now attack at close range with their staff, which is great because if I have a staff and someone is in my face, I'm going to improvise and use it as a method to attack.

Rogues for the most part are done well. I draw issue with how they use Backstab. What would've worked better is if an entire smokescreen surrounded the enemy and then you stabbed them. I'm doing a rogue playthrough now so I might be able to find anything else that didn't work.

However, let's examine the enemy style of battling. They use the same style of Origins combat we used to use, only it's sped up by a mere 2%-4%. This doesn't help things, as we're attacking faster and have an unfair advantage over them. Not only that, but our attacks almost always keep them from attacking. The enemies (and NPC allies not in your party) need to use the new system of combat so that we're fighting evenly. Then, all the complaints would disappear. Also, enemies should not play Jenga with themselves when I kill them. I want to see class specific kills. Maybe have a rogue occasionally slit an person's throat on the killing blow, or have a S&S decapitate someone. Archers could fire an arrow into the eye, while Mages could, depending on the element of the staff, immolate the enemy, freeze him and then he shatters,  have electricity course through them, etc..

But for the most part combat is the way it should be. It just needs to be TWEAKED.

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 11 mai 2011 - 02:42 .


#128
TEWR

TEWR
  • Members
  • 16 989 messages

Psst...BioWare, drop the anime cartoon crap (especially those big stupid ugly swords) and spend a little more time on the daggers and wands would ya? I wanted a set of Isabela shaped daggers soooo bad. I loved the Deep Roads feeling in DAO. It was creepy, with sudden turns and you really felt for the dwarves and their citties of grandeur now reduced to hollow darkspawn filled ghost towns.


I don't understand why people hate greatswords so much. They existed in real life (though not as wide but definitely as long. And I know what you're thinking people. I thought it too...) and were present in DA:O.

Now, if people said "I would like for a more historically accurate greatsword" I'd be perfectly content. But I've seen people act like greatswords are an anime only thing and that they never existed in real life.

#129
neppakyo

neppakyo
  • Members
  • 3 074 messages

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...


Psst...BioWare, drop the anime cartoon crap (especially those big stupid ugly swords) and spend a little more time on the daggers and wands would ya? I wanted a set of Isabela shaped daggers soooo bad. I loved the Deep Roads feeling in DAO. It was creepy, with sudden turns and you really felt for the dwarves and their citties of grandeur now reduced to hollow darkspawn filled ghost towns.


I don't understand why people hate greatswords so much. They existed in real life (though not as wide but definitely as long. And I know what you're thinking people. I thought it too...) and were present in DA:O.

Now, if people said "I would like for a more historically accurate greatsword" I'd be perfectly content. But I've seen people act like greatswords are an anime only thing and that they never existed in real life.


I think mainly because a lot of them resemble cloud's buster sword (well, techically it was Zacks ;) )  from final fantasy 7.

Me? a little embleshment on a historic design is fine. But the speed at which they swing them in DA2 is downright rediculous.

#130
TEWR

TEWR
  • Members
  • 16 989 messages

neppakyo wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...


Psst...BioWare, drop the anime cartoon crap (especially those big stupid ugly swords) and spend a little more time on the daggers and wands would ya? I wanted a set of Isabela shaped daggers soooo bad. I loved the Deep Roads feeling in DAO. It was creepy, with sudden turns and you really felt for the dwarves and their citties of grandeur now reduced to hollow darkspawn filled ghost towns.


I don't understand why people hate greatswords so much. They existed in real life (though not as wide but definitely as long. And I know what you're thinking people. I thought it too...) and were present in DA:O.

Now, if people said "I would like for a more historically accurate greatsword" I'd be perfectly content. But I've seen people act like greatswords are an anime only thing and that they never existed in real life.


I think mainly because a lot of them resemble cloud's buster sword (well, techically it was Zacks ;) )  from final fantasy 7.

Me? a little embleshment on a historic design is fine. But the speed at which they swing them in DA2 is downright rediculous.


In the post above the one you quoted me for I posed an idea that might be a good solution.

#131
neppakyo

neppakyo
  • Members
  • 3 074 messages
[quote]The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...
.
I don't understand why people hate greatswords so much. They existed in real life (though not as wide but definitely as long. And I know what you're thinking people. I thought it too...) and were present in DA:O.

Now, if people said "I would like for a more historically accurate greatsword" I'd be perfectly content. But I've seen people act like greatswords are an anime only thing and that they never existed in real life.

[quote]neppakyo the bold wrote..
I think mainly because a lot of them resemble cloud's buster sword (well, techically it was Zacks ;) )  from final fantasy 7.

Me? a little embleshment on a historic design is fine. But the speed at which they swing them in DA2 is downright rediculous.



In the post above the one you quoted me for I posed an idea that might be a good solution.[/quote]

I was agreeing and stating one reason a few people didn't like them. That dreaded "jRPG/Anime" thing again ;)

Well, that was the point i was trying to make hehe

Edited for quote fixes ... -_- f**k it. to tired to fix it properly.

Modifié par neppakyo, 11 mai 2011 - 03:21 .


#132
TEWR

TEWR
  • Members
  • 16 989 messages
Ah ok. The speed isn't appropriate, but luckily the only two people who are 2 Handers in DA2 are people I rarely use ^_^

#133
neppakyo

neppakyo
  • Members
  • 3 074 messages

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Ah ok. The speed isn't appropriate, but luckily the only two people who are 2 Handers in DA2 are people I rarely use ^_^


I rarely used 'em too. Just try it and watch them. Really watch them, its comical.

#134
TEWR

TEWR
  • Members
  • 16 989 messages
Oh I did and I laughed. If it was slowed down a tad I'd use them more, but I feel like they're both trying to compensate for something by swinging them that fast.

#135
neppakyo

neppakyo
  • Members
  • 3 074 messages

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Oh I did and I laughed. If it was slowed down a tad I'd use them more, but I feel like they're both trying to compensate for something by swinging them that fast.


Hrmm, I guess having no twig an' berries in the way makes you swing a greatsword faster

#136
TEWR

TEWR
  • Members
  • 16 989 messages
that must be the case. At least they don't have to worry about accidentally losing anything

#137
Teredan

Teredan
  • Members
  • 552 messages
Story - didn't care for it, I mean I expected having choices and I didn't have them if you're going to be a no choice story there has to be way more going for it and clear and long event progression. This was no Final Fantasy VI nor Baldurs Gates...

Graphics - better than DA:O but come on that isn't much of an improvement and it's style just doesn't fit. I'm all for having a more artistical direction but it just doesn't fit and when looking and the developement time it again feels rather like a scheme(like many things) to save developement time that more real looking models would require. I miss dark and gritty...

Combat - Laughing fest. Really I felt as brain afk when playing as I was, when playing wow (a few years ago) and farming things. Mashing buttons on cd and more or less applying common sense when allocating skill/attribute points took me through hard.

DA2 was disappointing, and I'm really eager learning to know what bioware takes out of the fan reaction for DA3.

#138
dreadpiratesnugglecakes

dreadpiratesnugglecakes
  • Members
  • 217 messages

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

neppakyo wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...


Psst...BioWare, drop the anime cartoon crap (especially those big stupid ugly swords) and spend a little more time on the daggers and wands would ya? I wanted a set of Isabela shaped daggers soooo bad. I loved the Deep Roads feeling in DAO. It was creepy, with sudden turns and you really felt for the dwarves and their citties of grandeur now reduced to hollow darkspawn filled ghost towns.


I don't understand why people hate greatswords so much. They existed in real life (though not as wide but definitely as long. And I know what you're thinking people. I thought it too...) and were present in DA:O.

Now, if people said "I would like for a more historically accurate greatsword" I'd be perfectly content. But I've seen people act like greatswords are an anime only thing and that they never existed in real life.


I think mainly because a lot of them resemble cloud's buster sword (well, techically it was Zacks ;) )  from final fantasy 7.

Me? a little embleshment on a historic design is fine. But the speed at which they swing them in DA2 is downright rediculous.


In the post above the one you quoted me for I posed an idea that might be a good solution.


Nice selective editing to prove your elf point.  Try grabbing one of the townspeople elves standing around looking like some kind of starving vampire; there's a whole group devoted to some of the uglier ones in the game.  The npc elves weren't victimized by the ugly stick quite as bad as the non speaking townsfolk.
And don't even get me started on the 'battle cattle' (thank you Fallout 3 for that lovely term) aka 'the redesigned Qunari' with their armor made out of stolen wicker lawn furniture.
And the cartoon darkspawn.
Graphics may have been sharper but the style blew.

#139
Guest_mochen_*

Guest_mochen_*
  • Guests
Story - 4

Slightly below average score. It just about held my attention until I finished the game. But I was very underwhelmed by it.

Graphics - 3

Nothing special at all. Quite bland actually. I found Kirkwall to be an extremely boring place to look at. I actually much preferred the graphics and style of Origins (and I thought Origins graphics were very ordinary when it first came out)

Combat - 2

The lack of tactics, waves of baddies, exploding bodies and amount of blood just destroyed any of the fun for me. Every fight descended into the same old hack-slash bloodbath, and there were way too many of them.

#140
Sanguinerin

Sanguinerin
  • Members
  • 461 messages
Combat = 5

Personally, I don't care about flashy combat. The combat in Dragon Age: Origins was fine by me. I don't play RPGs for combat. I play them for the story. It was nice that ranged characters had melee animations when enemies got close, but that's unnecessary.

I did not like the constant waves. I don't mind waves from time to time, but not in every single combat situation. To me, throwing those waves around constantly just makes me think that the game is focused too much on action/killing rather than story. In my opinion, that's a huge negative to an RPG. Also, enemies dropping in from nowhere is always immersion-breaking.

Graphics = 6.5

I'm torn between a 6 and a 7, so they're averaged. Kirkwall looked beautiful. Sundermount was pretty. The enviroments generally had more color to them. However, I completely stopped caring about the new look as soon as I saw every area again for the second time, and the third, fourth, fifth, etc. . .

They got old, quickly. A mention to the developers: when you make something unique and then copy it throughout the rest of the game, it loses that sense of being unique.

I hate seeing two identical NPCs standing next to each other in a crowd without another, different model standing in-between them (as was done many times in DAII), let alone running through the same area for so many hours. Sealing a door shut so that you have to run around the same area in a different way does not equal a significant enough change to ignore that it's still the exact same.

I would have sacrificed an overhaul on the graphics to instead giving more areas (and more beasts/people, considering how female dwarves, genlocks, and shrieks were missing). I understand going for a more unique look to set their franchise aside, but pushing it from the classic look Origins gave to this anime/cartoon-esque approach wasn't as appealing to me. I prefer other MMOs over WoW because of the cartoon look.

The emphasis on this unchanging unique appearance for companions also destroyed one of my favorite parts of the game (customization) and left roughly two-thirds of the equipment I found virtually useless, since it only pertained to my one class.

The changes to the hurlocks also isn't fitting: they were changed to look more patchwork and gritty, but that effect is broken when every single hurlock patchworked their armor in the exact same pattern. Unless they sit around their campfires during down time comparing notes on how to make themselves look a little individualistic and terrifying at the same time, but also with a hint of uniformity, then I'm not buying the reason behind that change.

The land around Lothering also struck me as curious. I wasn't aware that it was situated in a barren, brownish-orange wasteland.

Story = 5

Rating any RPG to the level I consider combat almost hurts me. The story was theoretically great, but the execution was poor. If they hadn't spent so much time on the overhaul of combat and graphics, perhaps the story could have felt more immersive and real. Instead, it plays out like this completely inevitable tragic tale that also doesn't seem to highlight Hawke as anything important. What did Hawke actually decide that made a real difference?

I didn't like how impersonal my relationship with Hawke's family was. I didn't like standing around and doing nothing as the story happened entirely around me (against the cinematic approach, I suppose). While they were borrowing from Mass Effect, they should have looked into the interrupt system so that we could actually have made a difference in particular scenes. Making certain choices didn't lead to that many alternatives, considering most resulted in "die now, or die later." I didn't like how many plot-centric deaths were forced, and how there felt like a complete inability to save anyone.

None of the decisions in Act III really seem to have any particular bearing on what happens. The first and second acts feel decently put-together, but the third act just feels like it was slapped together and tossed in at the last minute. I enjoyed Act I the most. Act II was where I started going, "I don't like seeing this area again" at a nod toward graphics, above.

I don't like how the family is removed from the picture after Act I and really become utterly insignificant, as I greatly enjoyed having Carver around for the first act in pretty much every mission. Leandra felt too distant, and Gamlen even more so. I hated that there was no way to really try and bond with our only uncle, when there was so little family left to Hawke.

Even the little things lacked story. Instead of interesting little mentions on my arms, armor, trinkets, and miscellaneous objects found throughout the world, almost everything was generic. "Amulet", "Ring", "Robe"? Really? Also, everything that just went straight into the junk tab frustrated me.

Why include "miscellaneous items" if they don't have an interesting story, such as: "Moth-eaten Scarf: one year ago scarves were a huge trend around Kirkwall, but a large portion of the nobles sneered at them once Orlesian fashion trends changed several months after they became a hit!" It's even worse that these objects not only lack some flavorful information, but they go into a tab labled "junk" of all things! There's no better way to call something utterly useless unless they went ahead and put it into a tab named "garbage you're going to sell in the shop because it's useless!"

Edit: I felt like I was beginning to rant a little, so my review ends a bit abruptly.

Modifié par HallowedWarden, 11 mai 2011 - 05:02 .


#141
erynnar

erynnar
  • Members
  • 3 010 messages

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Ah ok. The speed isn't appropriate, but luckily the only two people who are 2 Handers in DA2 are people I rarely use ^_^


yeah my problem with a lot of the Great Swords is they were too Anime, especially Harker's? Or whatever the hell that sword was from the DLC. Great stats, I wouldn't let Fenris or Carver wear it. THe stupidest design. I looked like a big block of wood.

And the elves are the fugliest people. I don't mind them not looking like short humans with pointed ears, but only a few are actually pretty or handsome. The rest have mule ears (like NE in Wow, which I always hated, at least they didn't give them the stupid long eyebrows too) an the the just warped ugly faces they gave most of the NPC elves. I understand that not all elves can be pretty, but seriously? The NPC elves were space alien refugees from a cookie factory. I can't cut and past pics, but that one elf chick from Fenris's quest you meet in a dungeon? MY GOD! Or the Elf hooker in the Blooming Rose upstairs? The guy who makes poisons...etc etc. Merrill, Fenris, the Keeper, and the smuggler elf (she is passable, barely) are just one of a very few examples of exotic rather than OMG KILL IT WITH FIRE!!!!

ROFL, sorry Eth. And you're right , the N'avi are pretty. The elves in DA2 look like they wanted to make the N'avi into pretty and exotic elves and somehow they got beat with a forest of ugly trees instead.

Modifié par erynnar, 11 mai 2011 - 05:31 .


#142
Foolsfolly

Foolsfolly
  • Members
  • 4 770 messages
I'm not going to expand on this because....whatever you don't care why:

Story- 4
Graphics- 6
Combat- 7

DA:O:

Story- 8
Graphics- 4
Combat- 5

#143
erynnar

erynnar
  • Members
  • 3 010 messages
OH and I forgot the damn darkspawn as a graphic issue! No more genlocks or shrieks apparently. Now they look herp derp. Including the Ogre and the Shriek Emmissary? biggest threat was I would fall down laughing and hurt myself. DAO they looked diseased, tainted, and blighted. I didn't want to touch them. Now they are throw backs to the 80s and He Man. Oh but for the carefully placed leather straps that were somehow supposed to make them vampire Goth and all woo woo scary!

Modifié par erynnar, 11 mai 2011 - 05:36 .


#144
erynnar

erynnar
  • Members
  • 3 010 messages

Foolsfolly wrote...

I'm not going to expand on this because....whatever you don't care why:

Story- 4
Graphics- 6
Combat- 7

DA:O:

Story- 8
Graphics- 4
Combat- 5

]

I care, I always love to read what you think.

#145
tmp7704

tmp7704
  • Members
  • 11 156 messages

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

People were told many, MANY months before DA2 was released that the elves were being redesigned.

How does that....

(random DA2 elf)

and this....

(a Na'vi)

look like that? The ears are the only similarity.

The ears, the forehead flowing smoothly into the nose bridge, enlarged eyes with large irides, a very elongated body. Honestly, if the only similarity was the ears, you simply wouldn't see so many people making this connection.

It's not like the Na'vi are only fictional race ever to have these features, but they're a prominent part of a very popular and recent movie. So like it or not, for the next few years at least people will tend to associate these features with the Na'vi.

#146
erynnar

erynnar
  • Members
  • 3 010 messages

tmp7704 wrote...

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

People were told many, MANY months before DA2 was released that the elves were being redesigned.

How does that....

(random DA2 elf)

and this....

(a Na'vi)

look like that? The ears are the only similarity.

The ears, the forehead flowing smoothly into the nose bridge, enlarged eyes with large irides, a very elongated body. Honestly, if the only similarity was the ears, you simply wouldn't see so many people making this connection.

It's not like the Na'vi are only fictional race ever to have these features, but they're a prominent part of a very popular and recent movie. So like it or not, for the next few years at least people will tend to associate these features with the Na'vi.


Yeah, I know that was the first thought that popped into my head when I saw them. And Zev did not translate well into the new Avatar face, so he got a guppy face instead. I hate the movie Avatar too, so it was not the best choice I tthought. Then I saw Merrill and Fenris and decided it could work and make them pretty and exotic. As long as they have no mule ears and their not made to look ugly, at least not all of them.

#147
A Crusty Knight Of Colour

A Crusty Knight Of Colour
  • Members
  • 7 472 messages
To be fair, you could also argue it was a shot at making Elves more Aerie-esque as opposed to being more Navi-esque. I'd bet on the latter, but the former is possible.

I honestly liked Elves in Origins a tad more, but this isn't going to be a dealbreaker for me either way. Well, most of the graphical changes don't, really.

#148
TEWR

TEWR
  • Members
  • 16 989 messages
@ tmp, I relate them more to the characters from the Jak and Daxter series.


@dreadpiratesomethingorother: umad? What do you want me to do, go out and buy the PC version so I can take snapshots of the elves of the city, both the ******-poor designed ones and the ones that have some detail? I have very limited pictures to use none being any other elves like Tomwise or Lia's father, so don't say I'm being selective when I have barely anything to use. Makes you look like an ass. Also, I think it's safe to say that everyone hates the darkspawn look now. God knows I do, that was the first thing that made me flip out about DA2. Although, is it wrong for me to like the new emissary look so long as that one stays Hurlock only?

@ Erynnar I can understand people disliking how some elves turned out. But I don't see any comparison between Na'vi and the DA2 elves. What's worse is that I've seen people advocate for a change back to the DA:O elven look. And these are coming from the people who complain about things being a step backwards. It boggles the mind. I can understand people asking Bioware to put effort into how the characters look and make them all either beautiful or intentionally ugly. My favorite elves are:

Merrill
Athenril
Marethari
Orana
Lia
Fenris
Varania
Irenia
Fenarel
Pol
Zevran (*waits patiently for people to call me an idiot for liking how Zevran looks now*)

I don't know there's a lot. I'll admit some elves look horrendous, but that is by far no means to call for the game to change the look of the elves again. Just ask Bioware to put more effort into appearances of each elf. I love the new look save for a few isolated and very minor cases, and while people may see them as akin to Na'vi, I don't. As I said above, they're more J&D to me (however Jak could grow a goatee and look like a bamf).

Modifié par The Ethereal Writer Redux, 11 mai 2011 - 06:08 .


#149
A Crusty Knight Of Colour

A Crusty Knight Of Colour
  • Members
  • 7 472 messages

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Zevran (*waits patiently for people to call me an idiot for liking how Zevran looks now*)


Posted Image

It's you vs the World, TEWR.

:P

Modifié par mrcrusty, 11 mai 2011 - 06:03 .


#150
TEWR

TEWR
  • Members
  • 16 989 messages
Bring it on, world!!! Hit me with your best shot!!