418 réponses à ce sujet

[Seboist]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Yeah, God forbid that they help the 10 000 crew members aboard that ship instead of idly passing by and just wait for the Citadel arms to open...

10K is a drop in the bucket for what Sovereign was about to unleash. He and his Geth minions steamrolled through the Citadel fleet and I'm supposed to waste them saving the DA while he's trying to invite hundreds of his buddies to join the party? No thanks.

[ObserverStatus]

Isn't it great how this game is so immersive that when other gamers disagree with your choices, so many of us take it personally?

[Moiaussi]

Seboist wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

Yeah, God forbid that they help the 10 000 crew members aboard that ship instead of idly passing by and just wait for the Citadel arms to open...

10K is a drop in the bucket for what Sovereign was about to unleash. He and his Geth minions steamrolled through the Citadel fleet and I'm supposed to waste them saving the DA while he's trying to invite hundreds of his buddies to join the party? No thanks.

It wasn't clear if they did have the firepower to do anything about sovereign. Meanwhile, saving the DA could have been done on the way in and might have been tacticly sound by way of taking on 'targets of convenience' as they closed with Sovereign.

In hindsight, we know that if the DA goes down, the Asari choose not to rebuild their losses, meaning that Asari shipyards are offline with respect to war production. The Turians announce they will breach the DN limits, but their shipyards would already have been at capacity replacing their losses, and it is unclear if they would have had a chance to actually expand their numbers at all in that short a time frame.

[Someone With Mass]

bobobo878 wrote...

Isn't it great how this game is so immersive that when other gamers disagree with your choices, so many of us take it personally?

Indeed.

[James2912]

to the OP this is just further evidence that the paragon/renegade system is a joke. Paragon is basically the "right" way to play. So many people wanted to kill TIM and Cerberus the developers are just giving people what they want a black and white game. Good vs. Evil I like it when we had a grey area it made Mass Effect unique. But whatever its still a great series its just lost some of its uniqueness.

[Someone With Mass]

Seboist wrote...
10K is a drop in the bucket for what Sovereign was about to unleash. He and his Geth minions steamrolled through the Citadel fleet and I'm supposed to waste them saving the DA while he's trying to invite hundreds of his buddies to join the party? No thanks.

Yeah, let's not help the dreadnought that might return the favor against another dreadnought.

[James2912]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Seboist wrote...
10K is a drop in the bucket for what Sovereign was about to unleash. He and his Geth minions steamrolled through the Citadel fleet and I'm supposed to waste them saving the DA while he's trying to invite hundreds of his buddies to join the party? No thanks.

Yeah, let's not help the dreadnought that might return the favor against another dreadnought.

Since were metagaming now, the DA did not do sheat against soveriegn. There was no way to know if you are not metagaming that saving the DA would not result in the Reapers activating the Citadel relay.

[88mphSlayer]

bobobo878 wrote...

Isn't it great how this game is so immersive that when other gamers disagree with your choices, so many of us take it personally?

iknowrite

i just wanna wipe all the mages out in Kirkwall in peace and ensure human dominance in mass effect, what's so bad about that?

[Seboist]

Moiaussi wrote...

Seboist wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

Yeah, God forbid that they help the 10 000 crew members aboard that ship instead of idly passing by and just wait for the Citadel arms to open...

10K is a drop in the bucket for what Sovereign was about to unleash. He and his Geth minions steamrolled through the Citadel fleet and I'm supposed to waste them saving the DA while he's trying to invite hundreds of his buddies to join the party? No thanks.

It wasn't clear if they did have the firepower to do anything about sovereign. Meanwhile, saving the DA could have been done on the way in and might have been tacticly sound by way of taking on 'targets of convenience' as they closed with Sovereign.

In hindsight, we know that if the DA goes down, the Asari choose not to rebuild their losses, meaning that Asari shipyards are offline with respect to war production. The Turians announce they will breach the DN limits, but their shipyards would already have been at capacity replacing their losses, and it is unclear if they would have had a chance to actually expand their numbers at all in that short a time frame.

The way the game states it is that the DA is dead in the water and Shepard has the choice of sacrificing Alliance ships to save them or concentrate fully on Sovereign.

Now if they would stated there was a risk of those Geth ships outflanking the Alliance ships after destroying it or that the DA's firepower would have been crucial to destroying Sovereign then I MIGHT have decided to save them.

The game gives no reasons for a Renegade minded player to save them besides some touchy feely morality about saving lives.

[Seboist]

Someone With Mass wrote...

Seboist wrote...
10K is a drop in the bucket for what Sovereign was about to unleash. He and his Geth minions steamrolled through the Citadel fleet and I'm supposed to waste them saving the DA while he's trying to invite hundreds of his buddies to join the party? No thanks.

Yeah, let's not help the dreadnought that might return the favor against another dreadnought.

The same dreadnought that was being used as the Council's personal transport instead of fighting?

[James2912]

thurmanator692 wrote...

James2912 wrote...

to the OP this is just further evidence that the paragon/renegade system is a joke. Paragon is basically the "right" way to play. So many people wanted to kill TIM and Cerberus the developers are just giving people what they want a black and white game. Good vs. Evil I like it when we had a grey area it made Mass Effect unique. But whatever its still a great series its just lost some of its uniqueness.

Paragon=things that make you look like a noble hero to the public
Renegade=things that make you look like a ruthless warrior to the public

hence charm/intimidate check

Not only are you a beloved hero as a paragon but from a metagaming perspective its the "right" way in that you get more allies and you don't hand over a trove of alien technology to your future enemy.

[James2912]

88mphSlayer wrote...

bobobo878 wrote...

Isn't it great how this game is so immersive that when other gamers disagree with your choices, so many of us take it personally?

iknowrite

i just wanna wipe all the mages out in Kirkwall in peace and ensure human dominance in mass effect, what's so bad about that?

Nothing! 

[kiti.the.great]

88mphSlayer wrote...

bobobo878 wrote...

Isn't it great how this game is so immersive that when other gamers disagree with your choices, so many of us take it personally?

iknowrite

i just wanna wipe all the mages out in Kirkwall in peace and ensure human dominance in mass effect, what's so bad about that?

ITZ NOT PARAGUNZZZZZ!!!!!
IT IZ BADZZZZ!!!!!

now you know.

[Someone With Mass]

If we're going by metagaming, then sacrificing the Council is so unnecessary, unless you're doing it for the sake of RP.

[Seboist]

thurmanator692 wrote...

James2912 wrote...

thurmanator692 wrote...

James2912 wrote...

to the OP this is just further evidence that the paragon/renegade system is a joke. Paragon is basically the "right" way to play. So many people wanted to kill TIM and Cerberus the developers are just giving people what they want a black and white game. Good vs. Evil I like it when we had a grey area it made Mass Effect unique. But whatever its still a great series its just lost some of its uniqueness.

Paragon=things that make you look like a noble hero to the public
Renegade=things that make you look like a ruthless warrior to the public

hence charm/intimidate check

Not only are you a beloved hero as a paragon but from a metagaming perspective its the "right" way in that you get more allies and you don't hand over a trove of alien technology to your future enemy.

Yeah, from a metagaming perspective, but what else did you expect when you hit the "lets give it to Cerberus" optiion? Also, the effects of keeping the base are still unknown, GI likes to fill in the blanks, Cerberus being your enemy could very well only be when you destroy the base

ME2 made the sacrifice the council option into a total joke by having the Paragon option being able to save the DA AND destroy Sovereign with minimal losses. The fact that the human dominated council doesn't show up either is salt on the wound.

I don't expect the save the CB decision to be any different.

[James2912]

thurmanator692 wrote...

James2912 wrote...

thurmanator692 wrote...

James2912 wrote...

to the OP this is just further evidence that the paragon/renegade system is a joke. Paragon is basically the "right" way to play. So many people wanted to kill TIM and Cerberus the developers are just giving people what they want a black and white game. Good vs. Evil I like it when we had a grey area it made Mass Effect unique. But whatever its still a great series its just lost some of its uniqueness.

Paragon=things that make you look like a noble hero to the public
Renegade=things that make you look like a ruthless warrior to the public

hence charm/intimidate check

Not only are you a beloved hero as a paragon but from a metagaming perspective its the "right" way in that you get more allies and you don't hand over a trove of alien technology to your future enemy.

Yeah, from a metagaming perspective, but what else did you expect when you hit the "lets give it to Cerberus" optiion? Also, the effects of keeping the base are still unknown, GI likes to fill in the blanks, Cerberus being your enemy could very well only be when you destroy the base

You are right in that there are big blanks obviously and i really hope it is how you say. However why would cerberus betray somebody like myself who exepressed that I fully support them and do based on my actions and my words. I was TIMs puppy and he kicked me for no reason! 

[Moiaussi]

thurmanator692 wrote...

I saved off the assumption that the DA would assist in the battle but nooooo council>all sentient organic life in the galaxy

The DA was too far gone for that battle, but saving it means it is still there for other battles. It also was a flagship with huge symbolic importance to the Asari. The Asari giving up fielding their own fleet likely has little to do with the Council's deaths, but much more likely on a kneejerk conclusion that they had the most impressive ship in the Council fleet and it was completely useless in the battle and since it was destroyed, a total waste of resources (completely ignoring the fact that it would have been at a huge disadvantage in the nebula).

Saving the DA doesn't mean it was any less useless in the battle, but it does make it much easier to gloss over. It did absorb tremendous damage and survived, which is the real point to that scale of ship.

And letting it die doesn't change the fight against Sovereign at all, so it isn't a choice between the Council and everyone else. Even you didn't take it that way (since you were trying to save the ship, not the Council). How do you manage to second guess yourself in hindsight? 

[Moiaussi]

Seboist wrote...

The way the game states it is that the DA is dead in the water and Shepard has the choice of sacrificing Alliance ships to save them or concentrate fully on Sovereign.

Now if they would stated there was a risk of those Geth ships outflanking the Alliance ships after destroying it or that the DA's firepower would have been crucial to destroying Sovereign then I MIGHT have decided to save them.

The game gives no reasons for a Renegade minded player to save them besides some touchy feely morality about saving lives.

The game doesn't say anything about 'sacrificing alliance ships' until after the fact. The decision is to save the DA or concentrate on Sovereign with no other tactical info given either way.

We do know that if you save the DA, Alliance ships are lost in doing so, but since we don't have comparative figures detailling losses under both scenarios, we don't know for certain that the total losses were actually higher saving the DA. The losses taken in doing so can be isolated and become a political issue, but those taken in not doing so are just part of the total fleet losses. There is no data to be certain which was best tactically.

We do know in hindsight that saving the DA was almost certainly better strategicly.

Btw, it was a tough judgement call. Anyone who choose to concentrate on Sovereign for tactical reasons had sound, legitimate arguements backing their decision.

[James2912]

thurmanator692 wrote...

Seboist wrote...

ME2 made the sacrifice the council option into a total joke by having the Paragon option being able to save the DA AND destroy Sovereign with minimal losses. The fact that the human dominated council doesn't show up either is salt on the wound.

I don't expect the save the CB decision to be any different.

I stuck with my decision to save the council for my shep, does humanity take as heavy a loss in the battle if you leave the DA? If you save it the lose like 13 cruisers or something. Hows it go in yours?
About the Collector base, if there is anything BioWare does well, its A. tell a good story and B. Listen to fan feedback. I doubt they'll leave you hanging

A lot less Alliance ships  are destroyed thats it, I say thats it because I assume those cruisers can be replaced easier than a giant dreadnought but the negatives make saving the Council the smart option.

[Moiaussi]

thurmanator692 wrote...

I stuck with my decision to save the council for my shep, does humanity take as heavy a loss in the battle if you leave the DA? If you save it the lose like 13 cruisers or something. Hows it go in yours?
About the Collector base, if there is anything BioWare does well, its A. tell a good story and B. Listen to fan feedback. I doubt they'll leave you hanging

We don't actually know. We aren't given comparative figures. We do know that the Asari abandon fielding a fleet if the DA goes down, turning that duty over to the Turians, so there is likely a strategic loss.