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[Thompson family]

Just in general:

I haven't seen this much b***hurt collected in one place since our state's Legislature was in session.

[James2912]

But if your a paragon then the aliens love you. and therefore you will have the DA on your side, the paragon decision is once again the "right" way to play the game.

[Alpha-Centuri]

James2912 wrote...

But if your a paragon then the aliens love you. and therefore you will have the DA on your side, the paragon decision is once again the "right" way to play the game.

I think this is sarcasm. If its snarkiness, i'll bite.

If you are renegade, the DA is destroyed. You can't have your cake and eat it too. You can't destroy the council and expect the races to be happy about it, especially those that liked the previous status quo.

You did two things which are positives by destroying the DA:

You allowed humanity to gain more power than would otherwise be possible
You made the Turians go bat**** crazy and produce a bunch of warships. Maybe its just me, but I think those are going to come in handy when the Reapers invade.

[Manic Sheep]

James2912 wrote...

But if your a paragon then the aliens love you. and therefore you will have the DA on your side, the paragon decision is once again the "right" way to play the game.

If you didn’t save them the DA the Turians and humans are in arms race instead of restricting the amount of ships they build. That might actually help you went the reapers come around if you can get them to work together.
And it would be stupid if everyone was cool with the DA being destroyed and didn't suspect political motives.

Modifié par Manic Sheep, 11 mai 2011 - 08:45 .

[Moiaussi]

thurmanator692 wrote...

James2912 wrote...

A lot less Alliance ships  are destroyed thats it, I say thats it because I assume those cruisers can be replaced easier than a giant dreadnought but the negatives make saving the Council the smart option.

Yeah, they can be rebuilt, but the lives can't. and it would put a huge dent in the alliance treasury

I repeats, we aren't given comparative figures. If the DA is saved, Shepard can list off the ships that went down in saving it, but we don't know the total fleet size or how many ships were lost total.

If the DA is destroyed by the Geth, we again don't know the total fleet size or total losses.

There is no basis for comparason. We simply do not know which was best tacticly

[James2912]

thurmanator692 wrote...

James2912 wrote...

But if your a paragon then the aliens love you. and therefore you will have the DA on your side, the paragon decision is once again the "right" way to play the game.

And if you left it, what the aliens think doesn't matter and if you kept the base, you have the toys to keep them down to boot!

hopefully but we don't know that I just hope that game informer article is just assuming that Cerberus will be your enemy if you are a renegade.

[Moiaussi]

Manic Sheep wrote...

James2912 wrote...

But if your a paragon then the aliens love you. and therefore you will have the DA on your side, the paragon decision is once again the "right" way to play the game.

If you didn’t save them the DA the Turians and humans are in arms race instead of restricting the amount of ships they build. That might actually help you went the reapers come around if you can get them to work together.
And it would be stupid if everyone was cool with the DA being destroyed and didn't suspect political motives.

Yes, but the Turians still only have the same total population and number of shipyards. Instead of drawing on the resources of two empires, now you are relying on one to cover both. Even if the Turians literally take over Asari ships (which would still likely need to be refitted for Turian crews), they would still have to replace the crew complement of the entire Asari navy, plus replace not only their own ship losses but the Asari losses as well.

Given a long enough time period and the political will to militarize even further, they might manage it, but they have only had two years.

And there is not much of an 'arms race.' The Alliance wasn't even at their treaty limits in ME1. They hadn't even ordered production on enough DN's to get there. That was a political/economic decision, not a military or Council decision, and the treaty limits are not large enough to threaten the Turians anyway.

Giving the Turians more responsibility and removing their treaty limit is not going to mean more of an arms race. Now if the Alliance was abandoning theirs and suddenly pulled several more DN's out of nowhere, that would, but there is no evidence of that that I know of.

Modifié par Moiaussi, 11 mai 2011 - 08:57 .

[James2912]

Moiaussi wrote...

Manic Sheep wrote...

James2912 wrote...

But if your a paragon then the aliens love you. and therefore you will have the DA on your side, the paragon decision is once again the "right" way to play the game.

If you didn’t save them the DA the Turians and humans are in arms race instead of restricting the amount of ships they build. That might actually help you went the reapers come around if you can get them to work together.
And it would be stupid if everyone was cool with the DA being destroyed and didn't suspect political motives.

Yes, but the Turians still only have the same total population and number of shipyards. Instead of drawing on the resources of two empires, now you are relying on one to cover both. Even if the Turians literally take over Asari ships (which would still likely need to be refitted for Turian crews), they would still have to replace the crew complement of the entire Asari navy, plus replace not only their own ship losses but the Asari losses as well.

Given a long enough time period and the political will to militarize even further, they might manage it, but they have only had two years.

And there is not much of an 'arms race.' The Alliance wasn't even at their treaty limits in ME1. They hadn't even ordered production on enough DN's to get there. That was a political/economic decision, not a military or Council decision, and the treaty limits are not large enough to threaten the Turians anyway.

Giving the Turians more responsibility and removing their treaty limit is not going to mean more of an arms race. Now if the Alliance was abandoning theirs and suddenly pulled several more DN's out of nowhere, that would, but there is no evidence of that that I know of.

I agree obviously paragon is the "right" way to play, having renegade as an option was a waste its just the inefficient way to go about things. 

signed a disapointed renegade who fell for the trap of thinking bioware could create a unique grey alternative. 

[Thompson family]

thurmanator692 wrote...

...........what?

Sorry. That was directed at other posts, not yours.

[Alpha-Centuri]

James2912 wrote...



signed a disapointed renegade who fell for the trap of thinking bioware could create a unique grey alternative. 

But alot of renegade isn't grey. Its red (borderline evil). A grey alternative that you advocate for is the middle button (These Sheps have the most to complain about. The only satisfactory middle button I did was rally the crowd at Tali's treason hearing)

Edit: I see your proud paragade banner. What would you suggest for the system besides benefits and consequences similar to those that are already in place?

Modifié par Alpha-Centuri, 11 mai 2011 - 10:39 .

[Mr. Gogeta34]

Wow, this really got heated while I was away, lol.

The current Paragon/Renegade system is like the RoadRunner and Coyote. The Coyote is obviously the Renegade, both are going to get through to the end but only the RoadRunner will get through without injury. However, the Coyote will be funner to watch no matter how painful it gets.

[mineralica]

I may sound stupid but I prefer to pick options basing on what current Shepard think, not on future BioWare plans. And even if this choice will lead to negative consequences even for my dearest main Shep, I'll face it without shouting about nobody told me what to do - you know, I like to think for myself.

[Mr. Gogeta34]

I feel the same as mineralica, the choices I've made so far have made for a fun, engrossing, and dramatic ride.

That's not stupid, that's playing the game the way it was meant to be played.

[Mr. Gogeta34]

It's a little disappointing but it hasn't yet affected the endgame. In the end, you still stop Sovereign, and in the end, you still stop the Collectors. The Reapers (and perhaps Cerberus) are next.

Also note that Paragon Shepards are the only Shepards doubting they can win against the Reapers in the Arrival DLC...

So say what you want about Renegade reactions, atleast Renegade Shepard aren't doubting themselves.

Modifié par Mr. Gogeta34, 12 mai 2011 - 07:01 .

[Mr. Gogeta34]

Saphra Deden wrote...

Mr. Gogeta34 wrote...

So say what you want about Renegade reactions, atleast Renegade Shepard isn't doubting himself.

Confidence born of ignorance.

Harbinger has been feeling that lately

[Nohvarr]

Thoughts on Cerberus from another forum

THE ILLUSIVE MAN DIDN'T KNOW

Yeah. He claimed. But then again, Jacob clearly outlined a situation in the Alliance in the very beginning of the game where Alliance born and Alliance bred humans did off-the-books work for the Alliance so the Alliance could get things done (like assassinations) without 'actually' having to do them. Their dirty laundry gets cleaned, and if **** ever goes south, they disavow all knowledge and say you're a rouge element.

What did the Illusive Man do when you pointed out all the evil **** Cerberus has done? Well, he said things had changed. And when you pressed the issue? He said he knew nothing about it and claimed they were rouge elements.

That's a hell of a familiar excuse, isn't it? Didn't we just hear that story about the Corsairs about five minutes before that? We did.

Fact: The Illusive Man handles the money and the direction of the organization. He's the one who sets up the projects, and he's the one who writes the checks. Practically speaking, it's pretty much impossible for a section of Cerberus to literally 'go rouge.' They would lose all access to their resources, and the rest of the organization would swoop in under Illusive Man's orders to crush them, because he knows who they are, where they live, what they look like, and exactly how to track them down. So unless they're all giganinjas and managed to set up a billion intergalactic lemonade stands while nobody was looking, the scenario claimed is pretty much impossible.

That only leaves one real explanation left. He knew, he funded it, and when **** went sour, he cut them loose. Hell, the entire Cerberus organization is founded on that. Look at how they're organized. Cells that know nothing about each other, have nothing to do with each other, and work independently from everyone else. The only one who knows everything that's going on is the Illusive Man. No one else exists who could corroborate any story or evidence. The left hand doesn't know what the right hand is doing, so if the left hand gets cut off one day, the head can feed the right hand whatever story it wants.

BUT LORD RAINE THE RECORDINGS ON JACK'S MISSION SAID THE ILLUSIVE MAN DIDN'T KNOW ABOUT IT

And the Illusive Man said when the mission was over that he was "disappointed that the Cerberus cleanup teams had apparently missed data logs."

Do note the important thing here. Cerberus, specifically Cerberus operatives under the control of the Illusive Man, got there before you, before anyone, and cleaned the place out from top to bottom. That means any and all evidence in that facility is potentially planted. Isn't it rather odd how the only logs left are the the exact ones that manage to completely vindicate and clear the Illusive Man? And isn't it odd that the ones they allegedly missed were on computer terminals sitting out in the open in major intersections of the building? What are the odds of that?

Way too long. Way, way too long.

BUT LORD RAINE AREN'T YOU JUST BIASED AGAINST CERBERUS?

Aren't you? They were planting Dragon's Teeth onto out-of-the-way colony worlds to observe the effects. They were sending out Rachnai into areas garrisoned with Alliance military personnel just to observe how the Rachnai fight. They planted fake distress beacons in the middle of Thresher nests just to gather data on them, at the expense of two entire companies of soldiers. They assassinated Admiral Kohaku and threw his body into a pen filled with husks just for the hell of it. They injected the acid venom of a Maw into a marine's blood "to see what would happen."

Are you seriously going to try and tell me that all of that was 'just rouge agents?' Either the Illusive Man is the most incompetent manager EVER, or he's lying out of both sides of his mouth at the same time, and trying to bull**** you for every last bit he can take you for.

The Illusive Man has intel detailed enough to know the exact measurements of every member of his organization. Are you seriously going to pretend that entire cells could go rouge and do these massive operations, and for him to not know anything about it?


Word of God is with me on this one too. The Illusive Man, and I quote, "represents both the best and the absolute worst of humanity in one package." That means he's self-sacrificing, a patriot, and a man of his word. It also means he's a lying liar who lies lies, is willing to sacrifice as many lives as it takes to get what he wants, has no compunctions or moral boundaries he isn't willing to cross with impunity, and will cheerfully and without hesitation betray and screw-over anyone and anything that starts messing with him and his bottom line, up to and including entire species, the Citadel, the Council, the Alliance, his own organization, every last person under his command, and you, Commander Shepard.

"Why is the Illusive Man after Shepard in Mass Effect 3?"

****, I'm surprised it took him this long.

So, with all that said, you're surprised that allowing Cerberus access to the base was a good idea?

[Moiaussi]

Saphra Deden wrote...

I'm the same way but the logical choices always turning out badly still frustrates me.

One man's logic is another man's WTH.

One of the problems is that the renegades want the best of both worlds. If paragons get an extra mess to clean up, renegades complain about getting less content, but if paragons don't get an extra mess to clean up, the renegades complain that the situation turned out better for the paragons.

They want the best of both worlds.

[Dean_the_Young]

Nohvarr wrote...

snip

So, with all that said, you're surprised that allowing Cerberus access to the base wasn't a good idea?

Not at all, though not for any of the poor arguments you copy-pasted.

Moreover, Cerberus's opposition to Shepard, in particular, in no way prevents giving the Base to Cerberus as a net asset against the Reapers.

Modifié par Dean_the_Young, 12 mai 2011 - 06:33 .

[Elite Midget]

Want to never get screwed over by Bioware?

Pick Human Male Paragon Shepard.
Romance Liara.
Save Tali and Garrus only in ME2.
Entering ME3 with a Full Squad and little to no lost content.

[xboxlivegamer]

Because the Illusive Man was ever to be trusted.