177 réponses à ce sujet

[Dave666]

Black Raptor wrote...

If you are using a class which relies on biotics (other than warp) on any difficulty above Veteran, then you are playing the game wrong.
All biotics are worthless against shields and only warp has any affect against armour or barriers.

And if you aren't using warp immediately after catching someone in a singularity then you also need to L2p. There is no point keeping them in the air for 6 seconds. Singularity, due to it's slow speed and large radius is great for getting unshielded enemies out from behind cover, and then you use a squad mate to warp them as soon as you can.

Singularity is fine on lower difficulties, but like all biotics in ME2 is impractical and very situational on hardcore or insanity. The issue is with the class in general.

Or an alternative view point (which I've pointed out a few times in another thread), its not the class per se, but the way that Bioware chose to implement the higher difficulty levels.  The Rock, Paper, Scissors protection is litterally only an issue for the caster classes, the gun centric ones simply shoot a little more, its no different to them than if the enemies had a bit more health (just some of that health is couloured blue, yellow or purple).


Ideally with Singularity I hope that they remove the x enemies caught before expiration and simply have it duration based.  Having an ability that could keep a few enemies staggering for say 10 seconds ain't exactly overpowered, you still need to kill the buggers.

Modifié par Dave666, 11 mai 2011 - 02:11 .

[Confused-Shepard]

Singularity should behave more like a nerfed Blackstorm. Holy hell!
It strips away armor and implodes, sucking everything in and then they all go flying
Also, massive AOE.

EDIT:

Rock-Paper-Scissors applies to the guns as well. Pistols, Shotguns & Snipers for Armor while SMG's & Assault Rifle's are great for stripping away shields & barriers. You also need ammo powers on higher difficulties to really bring the pain

Modifié par Confused-Shepard, 11 mai 2011 - 02:10 .

[termokanden]

Devos wrote...

JaegerBane wrote...

Why is it that the second anyone questions any biotic ability they're instantly regarded as wanting ME1's biotics back?

Because straw man arguments are easy to make and don't require understanding what the other person is saying. Look at any thread criticising something in ME2 and there will probably be some one accusing the critics of wanting ME1's system back.

That's not really all there is to it. There is a lot of negativity around here, and a lot of the criticism is not reasonable at all (ME2 is one big shiny corridor, ME2 is not an RPG, Adepts are useless in ME2, and so on).

Too easy to think "oh no not this again". But no that's not reasonable either.

I will agree that Singularity needs to be more consistent. But not that it isn't good, because it can be quite amazing.

I find it great for a few things:

- Cast it on a protected enemy, then shoot them. When they fly, Warp them. Better than letting them shoot you while destroying their protection and then having to wait for a cooldown before Warp.
- Cast it on a nasty enemy that needs to be stopped. You can lock some of them down if you keep an eye on them and refresh Singularity.
- Cast it on the ground in husk encounters and destroy their armor. Make sure you lead them through the Singularity.

By the way, I personally hope they improve Shockwave. Right now I see no reason you'd ever want that when you have Pull Field. Maybe it's fun on lower difficulties. But even there Pull Field is quicker.

Modifié par termokanden, 11 mai 2011 - 02:12 .

[Ahriman]

I know you guys like using that singularity spam, but I want something more connected with books. Singularity should be really scary thing to use. More time to restore, more damage, larger radius and friendly fire maybe? Oh, and it shouldn't 'fly' at all, biotics just create a point with abnormal gravitation where they want it.

[stonbw1]

There should be a happy medium between ME1 & 2 on this power. In ME1, it was ridiculous, but also really fun (seeing people and things flying around like a tornado had hit them). After that, I found it lackluster in ME2. To me, biotics should be extraordinary in the game- it seems logical that way. Anyone can pull a stupid rifle trigger; those that who can throw people across the room are pretty impressive. The taming of a biotic may be better accomplished by recharge times, range, whatever (again that makes logical sense) rather than effectiveness of power.

I hate the accusation of 'spamming'- you don't blame a soldier for only using the Revenant or Widow, why blame a biotic for using its best power over and over?

[Ahriman]

stonbw1 wrote...
I hate the accusation of 'spamming'- you don't blame a soldier for only using the Revenant or Widow, why blame a biotic for using its best power over and over?

I mean too short cooldawn.

[JaegerBane]

Malanek999 wrote...
The angle it hits isn't random either. That depends on how you arc it. I'm not claiming I know exactly where enemies are going to move although I do have a pretty good idea.

You are claiming that you know, as that is the only way you can claim that the angle of impact isn't random. No matter how you arc it, if an enemy has changed direction or taken cover by the time it hits, it's not hitting the angle you'd arced it towards. Therefore, by definition, it's dependant on the enemy moving in a direction that best suits you - i.e., random. I'm not going to spell this out any further, as I'm beginning to suspect you're arguing for argument's sake.

And enemies that advance on you, and are therefore by far the most dangerous, are very easy to get it right with.

Not only is the assertion (that whoever is advancing is the most dangerous) incorrect on many occassions, but it's also not the case with enemies like Harby, which Bozorg has already pointed out. As I said, there is little point in simply ignoring reality.

This is a power with a base 4.5 second recharge, you should not expect a single singularity to dominate the battlefield.

Why are you assuming that the 4.5 sec recharge be kept? And why have you assumed I want a single singularity to dominate the battlefield? Stick to what's being written, please.

It's primary use is to CC unprotected enemies and set up warp explosions.

If that were true then it would be completely redundant, as Pull does it faster, with a shorter cooldown, and a longer duration. Singualrity's purpose is to CC protected enemies and block off areas, the things that pull can't do.

This is common knowledge on the forums, Malanek. If it's news to you then I suggest you get some more time on ME2, as there's little point in contributing to this thread if you're not familiar with the basics.

Modifié par JaegerBane, 11 mai 2011 - 04:44 .

[JaegerBane]

Dave666 wrote...

Or an alternative view point (which I've pointed out a few times in another thread), its not the class per se, but the way that Bioware chose to implement the higher difficulty levels.  The Rock, Paper, Scissors protection is litterally only an issue for the caster classes, the gun centric ones simply shoot a little more, its no different to them than if the enemies had a bit more health (just some of that health is couloured blue, yellow or purple).

Agreed. Many people claim Shockwave is a terrible power, for instance, but on Normal - the 'baseline difficulty', as the game refers to it as - it's awesome. IMO it's more that Insanity had very little thought put into it. As you say, it disproportinately affects different classes, which is in itself an indication it wasn't balanced right.

[JaegerBane]

Malanek999 wrote...

Dave666 wrote...
Not its main purpose? On insanity?  Which powers does the Adept have that will CC protected enemies again?

Protected enemies are not supposed to be easily controlled until their protections havebeen brought down.

Which is precisely why, barring bonus powers, the Adept and the Engineer are the only classes that can do it. If such a situation existed for all classes, then exactly what would be the purpose behind a CC orientated class? Try to think stuff through before you post.

[dreman9999]

JaegerBane wrote...

Ghost Warrior wrote...

What are you talking about? There is nothing wrong with singularity if you know how to use it.

*sigh*

I figured 'l2p' would get mentioned at some point.

Unless you;re claiming to be able to predict the future, it isn't possible to judge in advance whether an opponent will be hit by it in such a way that it'll CC them, as movement can determine whether it hits an area that won't grab them. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Whether you 'know how to use it' is irrelevant.

Not true at all. Try using throw on your enemies or learning to curve the attack. I just finshed my insanaty pure adept biotics run.....Singularity is not bad at all....espeically ifyou max your passives.

[dreman9999]

JaegerBane wrote...

Dave666 wrote...

Or an alternative view point (which I've pointed out a few times in another thread), its not the class per se, but the way that Bioware chose to implement the higher difficulty levels.  The Rock, Paper, Scissors protection is litterally only an issue for the caster classes, the gun centric ones simply shoot a little more, its no different to them than if the enemies had a bit more health (just some of that health is couloured blue, yellow or purple).

Agreed. Many people claim Shockwave is a terrible power, for instance, but on Normal - the 'baseline difficulty', as the game refers to it as - it's awesome. IMO it's more that Insanity had very little thought put into it. As you say, it disproportinately affects different classes, which is in itself an indication it wasn't balanced right.

I wonder why people keep thinking of Shockwave for biotics to take down defences when throw is a better power to do it with. You can curve it. When the eneimy is hit, they are stunned. It has a the fastest cooldown of all your powers.It can quickly take down eneimy sheild/protection. You can esaily use it from cover. And you can spam it, by the time the targwet recovers they are stunned again.

[termokanden]

JaegerBane wrote...

Agreed. Many people claim Shockwave is a terrible power, for instance, but on Normal - the 'baseline difficulty', as the game refers to it as - it's awesome. IMO it's more that Insanity had very little thought put into it. As you say, it disproportinately affects different classes, which is in itself an indication it wasn't balanced right.

What's so great about Shockwave anyway? Throw and Pull come in AoE versions with half the cooldown.

It just seems redundant on lower difficulties and weak on the higher ones.

[Nathan Redgrave]

Problem with area attacks is that enemies don't often cluster together, so you get limited use out of them. Still, I've gotten some good use out of Singularity--I just never use it on protected enemies, period. It's no good unless it sends them flying. I also like to time it so that an enemy that's drawing closer to another enemy walks into it after the Singularity captures the other guy. Cool thing about Singularity: it sticks around, and the enemies are too pants-on-head retarded to avoid smacking face-first into the thing.

Still, since one-off attacks tend to be less situational, I find Pull and Stasis more useful for crowd control.

[Nathan Redgrave]

termokanden wrote...
What's so great about Shockwave anyway? Throw and Pull come in AoE versions with half the cooldown.

It just seems redundant on lower difficulties and weak on the higher ones.

Shockwave is a straight-line attack that can have a more widespread effect. I also find that enemies have a tendency to fall into line for a good shockwave more often than for a Singularity, due to the area of effect being larger (if more specific).

[JaegerBane]

termokanden wrote...
What's so great about Shockwave anyway? Throw and Pull come in AoE versions with half the cooldown.

It just seems redundant on lower difficulties and weak on the higher ones.

What sets Shockwave apart is the fact that it keeps on going, ignores cover and has a very wide radius. A single shockwave can wipe out a swarm of husks - far more than a pair of Area Pulls ever could, if it's aimed properly.

[Bozorgmehr]

JaegerBane wrote...

termokanden wrote...
What's so great about Shockwave anyway? Throw and Pull come in AoE versions with half the cooldown.

It just seems redundant on lower difficulties and weak on the higher ones.

What sets Shockwave apart is the fact that it keeps on going, ignores cover and has a very wide radius. A single shockwave can wipe out a swarm of husks - far more than a pair of Area Pulls ever could, if it's aimed properly.

Shockwave ain't that bad on Insanity. It obviously isn't the 'best' power around, but it can be very useful and do stuff other biotic abilities can't. Plus it's loads of fun when you manage to use it effectively. I'll admit certain levels/areas suit SW better than others, but you can integrate Shockwave into Adept and Vanguard gameplay easily

Shockwave does have similar 'problems' like Singularity. It, too, is unreliable and unpredictable. Powers like Pull, Throw and Warp have predictable effects; you know what will happen when using them. With Shockwave and Singularity you'll have to wait and see what's going to happen.

[Sparrow44]

One of the only things that nags at me about Singularity is I felt it should've been both Heavy and the Wide variant to begin with.

At lower levels and with a lower rank of the power it does indeed dissipate quickly for what can only reliably hold one (protected) enemy at a time.

[termokanden]

JaegerBane wrote...

termokanden wrote...
What's so great about Shockwave anyway? Throw and Pull come in AoE versions with half the cooldown.

It just seems redundant on lower difficulties and weak on the higher ones.

What sets Shockwave apart is the fact that it keeps on going, ignores cover and has a very wide radius. A single shockwave can wipe out a swarm of husks - far more than a pair of Area Pulls ever could, if it's aimed properly.

Meh. Singularity slaughters them on lower difficulties anyway. I never said it was bad, it's just redundant.

Nice for variation though.

[JaegerBane]

dreman9999 wrote...

JaegerBane wrote...

Ghost Warrior wrote...

What are you talking about? There is nothing wrong with singularity if you know how to use it.

*sigh*

I figured 'l2p' would get mentioned at some point.

Unless you;re claiming to be able to predict the future, it isn't possible to judge in advance whether an opponent will be hit by it in such a way that it'll CC them, as movement can determine whether it hits an area that won't grab them. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Whether you 'know how to use it' is irrelevant.

Not true at all. Try using throw on your enemies or learning to curve the attack. I just finshed my insanaty pure adept biotics run.....Singularity is not bad at all....espeically ifyou max your passives.

As I've already said, it's not about 'learning to curve the attack'. I'm not simply throwing the singualrity at an opponent head-on every time and wondering why things aren't going well. The point, as has been mentioned by a number of people on here, is the combination of how slow the projectile is, the effect movement can have on the impact of the singualrity and it's angle (i.e. if it hits an opponent on his side opposite to the direction he's moving, it's highly likely he'll either stagger out of it or simply ignore it). Since enemy movement is inherently unpredictable, that becomes an issue. Whether it works depends on whether the enemy chooses to move in such a way conducive to it.

Make no mistake, I've no doubts about it's power. Just it's reliability.

[AngelicMachinery]

I think your doing it wrong.

[JaegerBane]

termokanden wrote...

JaegerBane wrote...

termokanden wrote...
What's so great about Shockwave anyway? Throw and Pull come in AoE versions with half the cooldown.

It just seems redundant on lower difficulties and weak on the higher ones.

What sets Shockwave apart is the fact that it keeps on going, ignores cover and has a very wide radius. A single shockwave can wipe out a swarm of husks - far more than a pair of Area Pulls ever could, if it's aimed properly.

Meh. Singularity slaughters them on lower difficulties anyway. I never said it was bad, it's just redundant.

Nice for variation though.

Assuming you place it right, yeah. It's got neither the range or the radius to really match up, but realistically if you judged whether a power is worth using purely on whether another power could do the same thing slightly differently, you'd be claiming half the powers in the game were redundant. Ultimately they all either CC or kill, with the exception of the mind control powers

[Ahglock]

termokanden wrote...

JaegerBane wrote...

termokanden wrote...
What's so great about Shockwave anyway? Throw and Pull come in AoE versions with half the cooldown.

It just seems redundant on lower difficulties and weak on the higher ones.

What sets Shockwave apart is the fact that it keeps on going, ignores cover and has a very wide radius. A single shockwave can wipe out a swarm of husks - far more than a pair of Area Pulls ever could, if it's aimed properly.

Meh. Singularity slaughters them on lower difficulties anyway. I never said it was bad, it's just redundant.

Nice for variation though.

I kind of think its bad.  Sure you can mop up using it, but I suspect most the people who make videos could mop up the opposition on any difficulty with a rusty spork as their only weapon.  Yeah it has a super big straight line AoE that bypasses cover.  But what it does is entirely uninspiring.  In bumps them in the air where they fall in relatively random spots and then they get up.  Sure that is useful, but pull will keepo that group out of your hair for 9 seconds before they fall, and you can throw 2 of them in the same time and outside some really perfect situations that will handle the sam enumber of targets as shockwave will.  If it was more like what Jack/Samara did at the end of their biotic field thing at the collector base it would be worth the long cooldown.  Long AoE throws them back, hits them for decent damage.  

[JaegerBane]

Bozorgmehr wrote...
Shockwave ain't that bad on Insanity. It obviously isn't the 'best' power around, but it can be very useful and do stuff other biotic abilities can't. Plus it's loads of fun when you manage to use it effectively. I'll admit certain levels/areas suit SW better than others, but you can integrate Shockwave into Adept and Vanguard gameplay easily

It's not unusable and it's definitely fun when pulled off, yeah, I think the biggest issue it has it that it's the only 6-sec recharge CC power that doesn't do anything to defences. On a difficulty where only the elites and bosses have defences, that's fine, but on a difficulty that has every tom, dick and harry has a shield then that becomes a bit of a ball-ache.

Shockwave does have similar 'problems' like Singularity. It, too, is unreliable and unpredictable. Powers like Pull, Throw and Warp have predictable effects; you know what will happen when using them. With Shockwave and Singularity you'll have to wait and see what's going to happen.

I think the biggest issue with it's reliability is it's relatively slow speed... but on a power that ignores cover and a wide radius, that's acceptable. What did you think makes it unpredictable? The direction it thows enemies?

[JaegerBane]

Ahglock wrote...
I kind of think its bad.  Sure you can mop up using it, but I suspect most the people who make videos could mop up the opposition on any difficulty with a rusty spork as their only weapon.  Yeah it has a super big straight line AoE that bypasses cover.  But what it does is entirely uninspiring.  In bumps them in the air where they fall in relatively random spots and then they get up.  Sure that is useful, but pull will keepo that group out of your hair for 9 seconds before they fall, and you can throw 2 of them in the same time and outside some really perfect situations that will handle the sam enumber of targets as shockwave will.  If it was more like what Jack/Samara did at the end of their biotic field thing at the collector base it would be worth the long cooldown.  Long AoE throws them back, hits them for decent damage.  

I think the main thing is the sheer number of enemies it'll knock over. Sure, Pull and Singlarity will CC undefended enemies longer within their AoE.... which is about 3 metres at best (and the best Evo of it will have less than 2 metre AoE) while the effective AoE of Shockwave is eveything within a corridor of radius x ~10-15 metres. That's a *lot* of enemies if it's timed right.

[lolwut666]

I think Singularity is awesome.