177 réponses à ce sujet

[JaegerBane]

termokanden wrote...
Not really my point.

Singularity can control through defenses, that's its specialty. Pull quickly immoblizes, sets up for extra damage, and lets you pull off Warp bombs. Throw is the quick knockdown effect that is potentially fatal if used at the right moment. Those all have their place.

Then you have Shockwave, mainly competing for the same thing Throw does. Nothing wrong with the power really, at least not on lower difficulties. But apart from those rare Husk-bowling moments that can already be tackled brilliantly with Singularity or just Pull spam, I don't think its increased area of effect outweighs Throw's low cooldown.

This means I'd rather have Throw, and if I have that, I don't really think I need Shockwave. Certainly don't have the points to max both of them anyway.

Excellent point, termo. I flatly disagree with the idea that it has no place, since even with just one or three points in it it has a reasonable area of effect. But I fully agree that situations where it genuinely shines over Throw are few and far between, and as I've already pointed out, it's cooldown is very long for a purely CC power. I've certainly found throw to be significantly more useful.

[Bozorgmehr]

People keep coming up with the "Biotics should work through defenses" BS. It baffles me people don't seem to have a clue what it will do to the game. ME isn't a 'game' without defenses; it's a disastrous joke. Removing defenses makes 90% of ME's powers completely useless and combat isn't combat anymore. There won't be a single encounter worthy to be labeled to be even slightly challenging regardless difficulty level:

Shep on his/her own with no weapons, only one point in Throw facing 3 YMIRs = YMIRs won't be able to shoot once and Shep can beat all three to death unchallenged. Shep on his/her own against 10 YMIRs, (s)he AI Hacks one = Shep has won. Shep takes on a 50+ horde of Husk, (s)he uses Shockwave trice = all husks gone. Etc etc. Wow, that's great eh?

Defenses are indispensable to gameplay (enemies have defenses on Casual too); they cannot be removed, period. The only thing up for debate is whether or not every single enemy should get some sort of protection playing on Insanity like it is now. Not that it will change anything though, bringing one squadmate with a defense-stripping power will remove protection of 1-3 enemies (instantly) before Shep's biotic powers are able to reach enemies. But this seems to be a problematic tactic for some...

The whole 'every single ability should be useful in every imaginable situation' concept is ridiculous; some enemies can only be killed using specific strategies - DA dragon's and other boss level creatures are immune to knockdowns, stuns and many other effects and/or attacks, is that really so bad? Or is it fun fighting a boss who will be stun-locked/floating around/on the ground etc the entire 'fight'?

Most biotic powers are fine the way they are now, but that's not what this thread is about. It is about Singularity being a great power in many ways, but it's also the most unreliable, buggy and 'bizarre' (no dogs?) signature power around. Fixing (some of) these issues would be a giant step forward without the need to destroy the entire game.

[DieBySword]

Bozorgmehr wrote...

People keep coming up with the "Biotics should work through defenses" BS. It baffles me people don't seem to have a clue what it will do to the game. ME isn't a 'game' without defenses; it's a disastrous joke. Removing defenses makes 90% of ME's powers completely useless and combat isn't combat anymore. There won't be a single encounter worthy to be labeled to be even slightly challenging regardless difficulty level:

Ppl want the biotic powers to work on defenses but not the same way it affects health bar enemies, we want the biotics to do even a slight stager and not just be canceled out completly. 

Shep on his/her own with no weapons, only one point in Throw facing 3 YMIRs = YMIRs won't be able to shoot once and Shep can beat all three to death unchallenged. Shep on his/her own against 10 YMIRs, (s)he AI Hacks one = Shep has won. Shep takes on a 50+ horde of Husk, (s)he uses Shockwave trice = all husks gone. Etc etc. Wow, that's great eh?

Same as before we dont want biotics to pawn all enemies but have some way of still fealing they can do something. Your husk example is silly because even on insane in ME2 husk are health bar enemies and Shockwave does pwn them 

[Bozorgmehr]

DieBySword wrote...

Ppl want the biotic powers to work on defenses but not the same way it affects health bar enemies, we want the biotics to do even a slight stager and not just be canceled out completly. 

Same as before we dont want biotics to pawn all enemies but have some way of still fealing they can do something. Your husk example is silly because even on insane in ME2 husk are health bar enemies and Shockwave does pwn them 

ME2 (biotic) powers already stagger enemies with defenses - hell, Pull and Throw will stop a Scion's attack animation.

On Insanity husks have armor; down to health pretty much every single power will insta-kill them. Sending a Shockwave through a group of unarmored husks will kill the lot.

[DieBySword]

Bozorgmehr wrote...

DieBySword wrote...

Ppl want the biotic powers to work on defenses but not the same way it affects health bar enemies, we want the biotics to do even a slight stager and not just be canceled out completly. 

Same as before we dont want biotics to pawn all enemies but have some way of still fealing they can do something. Your husk example is silly because even on insane in ME2 husk are health bar enemies and Shockwave does pwn them 

ME2 (biotic) powers already stagger enemies with defenses - hell, Pull and Throw will stop a Scion's attack animation.

On Insanity husks have armor; down to health pretty much every single power will insta-kill them. Sending a Shockwave through a group of unarmored husks will kill the lot.

yeah got the husk bit wrong on insanity but what I mean is that there isnt as much health bar enemies where the biotics abilitys max power would shine on a large group. Taking it by the difficulty levels

casual - a lot health bar enemies, a few armored, and 1 or 2 boss like enemies with armor and biotic/tech
normal - less health bar enemies, a lot more armored and a few with 2 bars
hardcore - husk/varen only health bar enemies, half of enemies have one bra and the other 2 bars
veteran - husk/varen only health bar enemies or non at all ?!?, a few 1 bar enemies and nearly all 2 bars using powers a lot
insane - just all ppl 2 bars and spamming powers

Well im not into starting ME just to test the pull,trow thingy but really does it stager them ?!? i mean for more than a second or just bugging out they`re fire animation.

[JaegerBane]

Bozorgmehr wrote...
ME2 (biotic) powers already stagger enemies with defenses - hell, Pull and Throw will stop a Scion's attack animation.

I think what people are after is that the effect is proportional to the cooldown on the power. Most people are fine with Pull and Throw as it is, as the it's less than 2 seconds before it recharges, so a stagger is fine. I think what people get a bit annoyed over is when the stagger is exactly the same, no matter how long the power takes to recharge.

[ComputerEnthusiast]

Boz, you fail to see that most people choose to play adept because of different ways to take down enemies without so much the use of guns.Otherwise, they would choose a gun-centric class.

Bozorgmehr  wrote:
Not that it will change anything though, bringing one squadmate with a defense-stripping power will remove protection of 1-3 enemies (instantly) before Shep's biotic powers are able to reach enemies. But this seems to be a problematic tactic for some...

That's the problem. I saw your vids. You must be hardcore player. In many cases, you pressed defense - stripping power, biotics power buttons in quick succession so that viewer has a feeling that biotics works through defense.

Having an extra keystroke is not a problem for me, and not your so-called tatic in my term, either. The problem is, you are forced to bring a squadmate that has defense - stripping power, otherwise, you end up shooting your way out first before your biotics has its use. Since most enemies we encouter is shielded enemies, that means you must bring Miranda/Tali/Garrus with Overload. But wait, Overload has cooldown of 12 secs, and if you try to limit your guns as much as possible, pressing Overload key and then biotic power key is just equal to pressing a biotic key that work through defense and has a cooldown of 12 secs, isnt it?
And if i want to bring someone without Overload, the only thing I could do now is either shooting myself or let my buggy squadmates shoot enemies first.

And what I really dont understand is that for combat classes, it is fine that they can OSOK enemies, but for caster classes (Adept, Engineer), they canot disable one enemy at a time without the help of defense-stripping power??? Remember OSOK is by far superior than disabling enemy, which you still have to shoot enemies who has full health bar and one layer of protection anyway and try not to expose your self much to get killed by thier friends.

Modifié par ComputerEnthusiast, 15 mai 2011 - 01:23 .

[ComputerEnthusiast]

In my opinion, there are ways to make caster class's disabling powers work through defense without affecting game balance. For example, Kasumi' rapid shadow strike, if successfully kills enemies, the cooldown reduction is 80%. BW devs could do the same for biotics powers. If you cast on protected enemy, the cooldown could be three, four times longer than casting on unprotected one, along with reduced duration and damage. Plus you never have wide area version of your powers when you cast on protected enemies.
It has been suggested that heavy version of these powers could work through defense with damage, duration, cooldown penalty. I think it is a feasible solution.

Shep on his/her own with no weapons, only one point in Throw facing 3 YMIRs = YMIRs won't be able to shoot once and Shep can beat all three to death unchallenged. Shep on his/her own against 10 YMIRs, (s)he AI Hacks one = Shep has won. Shep takes on a 50+ horde of Husk, (s)he uses Shockwave trice = all husks gone. Etc etc. Wow, that's great eh?

Of couse biotics should never affects elites, bosses, or any enemies with two layers of protection.
Why did you say that?

Modifié par ComputerEnthusiast, 15 mai 2011 - 01:42 .

[DieBySword]

well If we use Shockwave it should pwn unprotected guys throwing them everywhere but the protected guys should at least fall back on they`re ass for 3-4 second not just show signs of being hit by something for like a sec. Even if they are armored and have shields if the earth gonna shake like crazy trowing **** into the air they at least should loose they`re balance

Modifié par DieBySword, 15 mai 2011 - 01:47 .

[Bozorgmehr]

ComputerEnthusiast wrote...

Boz, you fail to see that most people choose to play adept because of different ways to take down enemies without so much the use of guns.Otherwise, they would choose a gun-centric class.

Shepard is a soldier first and foremost; ME is a shooter, you're not meant to be able to play the game without using weapons. Choosing the Adept class only means you're equipped with powers which boost overall combat potential. Biotics are and ought to be powerful tools in combat, but they are not meant to replace weapons altogether.

That's the problem. I saw your vids. You must be hardcore player. In many cases, you pressed defense - stripping power, biotics power buttons in quick succession so that viewer has a feeling that biotics works through defense.

Having an extra keystroke is not a problem for me, and not your so-called tatic in my term, either. The problem is, you are forced to bring a squadmate that has defense - stripping power, otherwise, you end up shooting your way out first before your biotics has its use. Since most enemies we encouter is shielded enemies, that means you must bring Miranda/Tali/Garrus with Overload. But wait, Overload has cooldown of 12 secs, and if you try to limit your guns as much as possible, pressing Overload key and then biotic power key is just equal to pressing a biotic key that work through defense and has a cooldown of 12 secs, isnt it?
And if i want to bring someone without Overload, the only thing I could do now is either shooting myself or let my buggy squadmates shoot enemies first.

And what I really dont understand is that for combat classes, it is fine that they can OSOK enemies, but for caster classes (Adept, Engineer), they canot disable one enemy at a time without the help of defense-stripping power??? Remember OSOK is by far superior than disabling enemy, which you still have to shoot enemies who has full health bar and one layer of protection anyway and try not to expose your self much to get killed by thier friends.

Well, anyone who plays on Casual, Normal, or Veteran difficulty will meet very few enemies with some form of protection - only on Hardcore and Insanity everyone's using defenses. Anyone looking for an all out biotic party can have one, I don't consider that an issue really. That's what difficulty levels are for.

Increasing cooldown is not a good option imo. Having Pull on a 12 second cooldown will make the Adept a lesser caster and more gun focused class. ME is also a squadbased game, it only makes sense that a good squad setup - working as a team - increases combat prowess.

I agree with the difference between the OSOK potential of the combat classes; though I don't want to take away the option to OSOK, I do believe it should be a little harder to accomplish. A little more specializing and/or teamwork cannot hurt imo. I don't agree with OSOK ing being really better than CC. Having the power to completely disable one (or a couple) enemies for a reasonable amount of time is just as useful as OSOK ing. Enemies who can't / don't fight back are no threat - CC can be just as potent as OSOKs, quickly removing one enemy from the fight is what really matters.

I do believe the Adept power loadout should be tweaked a little to improve their CC abilities a bit. An slightly improved and more reliable Singularity and a (no damage bonus, no falling down) version of Stasis would be sufficient imo.

Of couse biotics should never affects elites, bosses, or any enemies with two layers of protection.
Why did you say that?

Because that's how the system works. There is no distinction between enemy ranks except they have multiple (defensive) layers. The color determines powers' effectiveness - enemy rank only affects power duration.

[Bozorgmehr]

JaegerBane wrote...

I think what people are after is that the effect is proportional to the cooldown on the power. Most people are fine with Pull and Throw as it is, as the it's less than 2 seconds before it recharges, so a stagger is fine. I think what people get a bit annoyed over is when the stagger is exactly the same, no matter how long the power takes to recharge.

Agreed. Shockwave needs some improvement(s) to make it a more useful and more unique power on the harder difficulty levels. Longer stagger, decent damage against shields would be nice.

DieBySword wrote...

well If we use Shockwave it should pwn unprotected guys throwing them everywhere but the protected guys should at least fall back on they`re ass for 3-4 second not just show signs of being hit by something for like a sec. Even if they are armored and have shields if the earth gonna shake like crazy trowing **** into the air they at least should loose they`re balance.

I think that would make Shockwave too powerful. The ability to knockdown or disable enemies (and with a huge AoE) up to 3-4 seconds would make Singularity and Stasis almost redundant. Something in between your idea and the current version of Shockwave would be better imo.

[The Spamming Troll]

bozo,

if shepard is a soldier first and foremost, how come i forgot to grab an actual firearm? the adept gets handcuffed by NOT having weapons training, as well as enemy protections.

the problem with the difficulties is the consistency of the difficulties each class faces. not the fact that, "hey, theres always casual if you suck!"

changing cooldowns is a great thing! your too stubborn to even allow something that would do nothing but help the game. you can have your same old stagger-biotics, but atleast give me an option to upgrade heavy throw to work on protections but takes even a minute longer to cool down, id take that minute long cooldown. hell id take a 40 hour cooldown, if just once i could use throw on a random merc with a little bit of shields left.

if ME3 comes out without the whole protections things being straightened out, theres going to be more disappointment then appreciation. i think its even something you could apreciate, or should.

[Sparrow44]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

if shepard is a soldier first and foremost, how come i forgot to grab an actual firearm? the adept gets handcuffed by NOT having weapons training, as well as enemy protections.

While I don't agree with the fact that 'casters' got stuck with only pistols and SMG's in the beginning of the game, that doesn't mean Shepard can't work wonders with a machine pistol and a desert eagle, as he/she can still kick ass in the meantime and getting the AR as a bonus actually felt more of a bonus to the Adept than let's say a Vanguard that also chose the AR as well.

As for Singularity I think it definitely needs to be both the Heavy and Wide evolutions to start off with (bigger radius and hold enemies longer are big musts). I would also like to see the Blackstorm HW's vortex possibly used as a possible application of Singularity.

I think I'd like to see tech powers used in conjunction with biotics also, can imagine casting Incinerate on targets trapped in Singularity turning into a Raging Inferno, draining health as it burns organics trapped in the vortex.

Modifié par Sparroww, 15 mai 2011 - 02:58 .

[Bozorgmehr]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

bozo,

if shepard is a soldier first and foremost, how come i forgot to grab an actual firearm? the adept gets handcuffed by NOT having weapons training, as well as enemy protections.

You can play 80% of ME2 with bonus weapon, or 100% when you start a NG+. In ME3 this isn't an issue anymore.

the problem with the difficulties is the consistency of the difficulties each class faces. not the fact that, "hey, theres always casual if you suck!"

If you suck, you should not be able to cruise through the game unchallenged on Insanity. If you suck you start on an easier level to increase your skills so when you don't suck anymore you can raise the stakes and have a good time while still being challenged (a little).

changing cooldowns is a great thing! your too stubborn to even allow something that would do nothing but help the game. you can have your same old stagger-biotics, but atleast give me an option to upgrade heavy throw to work on protections but takes even a minute longer to cool down, id take that minute long cooldown. hell id take a 40 hour cooldown, if just once i could use throw on a random merc with a little bit of shields left.

Well, than we have a very different opinion about what would 'help' the game. You're always keep ranting about biotics should be able to destroy everything. I don't think having the option to Pull one shielded enemy every minute is going to be of much help.

if ME3 comes out without the whole protections things being straightened out, theres going to be more disappointment then appreciation. i think its even something you could apreciate, or should.

You being disappointed is normal - I would be scared if you would love ME3, b/c chances are high I would be disappointed instead

[ComputerEnthusiast]

Boz wrote:
Increasing cooldown is not a good option imo. Having Pull on a 12 second cooldown will make the Adept a lesser caster and more gun focused class. ME is also a squadbased game, it only makes sense that a good squad setup - working as a team - increases combat prowess.

Here is my previous post:

In my opinion, there are ways to make caster class's disabling powers work through defense without affecting game balance. For example, Kasumi' rapid shadow strike, if successfully kills enemies, the cooldown reduction is 80%. BW devs could do the same for biotics powers. If you cast on protected enemy, the cooldown could be three, four times longer than casting on unprotected one, along with reduced duration and damage. Plus you never have wide area version of your powers when you cast on protected enemies.

The increased cooldown is applied only when casting on protected enemy. Otherwise, you still have short cooldown and you can play the game in your way. But at least it let 'who dont like protection blocking biotics stuff' have a chance to enjoy 'i dont have to shoot to make my power work on that lone guy'.

The Spamming Troll wrote

.... you can have your same old stagger-biotics, but atleast give me an option to upgrade heavy throw to work on protections but takes even a minute longer to cool down, id take that minute long cooldown. hell id take a 40 hour cooldown, if just once i could use throw on a random merc with a little bit of shields left.

@The Spamming Troll : Your statement seems to exaggerate, but i like it.

Modifié par ComputerEnthusiast, 15 mai 2011 - 03:18 .

[Aumata]

Improving Singularity: Switch the cooldown with Shock wave. Make it instant cast, with the radius being bigger. Then having to switch between wide and heavy on the basis of being offensive (wide) or CC (heavy). Heavy can stagger foes that are klixen, varren, geth primes, ,YMIR, or something similar. On the other hand wide does 1.5 damage towards protection. Both damage to protection gets faster when near the core, so Heavy sucks in opponents at a faster rate than wide. Haven't thought of the next evolution but it is a start.

[Bozorgmehr]

ComputerEnthusiast wrote...

The increased cooldown is applied only when casting on protected enemy. Otherwise, you still have short cooldown and you can play the game in your way. But at least it let 'who dont like protection blocking biotics stuff' have a chance to enjoy 'i dont have to shoot to make my power work on that lone guy'.

Do defenses bother you while NOT playing on Hardcore or Insanity? You can't Pull Harbinger or a Scion regardless difficulty. Krogan, BS Legionaries, -Centurions, -Commander, Collector Guardians, -Assassins, Eclipse Vanguards and Engineers etc all have protection - they cannot be tossed around at will.

I don't like different cooldowns depending on enemy status, that would needlessly complicate things - not mentioning the rather crappy ME2 targeting system. Also explain how this would reduce weapon reliance b/c increasing cooldowns will only make weapons more important for Adepts. Why would anyone ever want or need Singularity or Stasis if you can use Pull? If you want to have your powers work on that lone guy toss a Singularity on him or put him Stasis. Below HC and Insanity Singularity and Stasis are only worthwhile against the occasional elite or boss; having Pull work on them too, makes the two S's redundant.

[JaegerBane]

The Spamming Troll wrote...
if shepard is a soldier first and foremost, how come i forgot to grab an actual firearm? the adept gets handcuffed by NOT having weapons training, as well as enemy protections.

I don't really understand this idea that the Adept 'doesn't get weapons training'. Sure, when it starts off the weapons available are a load of crap, but that's the same for all classes until they pick up more potent stuff and upgrades. At the end of the day, the Adept can carry a Phalanx, a Locust and an Arc Projector less than an hour into the game. The idea that the Adept somehow carries no weapons is a complete myth.

the problem with the difficulties is the consistency of the difficulties each class faces. not the fact that, "hey, theres always casual if you suck!"

I do think there's a major issue with how the different difficulties affect different classes. Ideally the defences should have the same effect on Biotics as they do on gunfire - they blunt the effectiveness of them, but they don't cancel them out altogether. I would personally prefer it if the effect of biotics against defences were diluted proportionately to their relative power, i.e. a Throw causes a stagger, while a Shockwave throws them on their arse rather than batting them through the air. Currently all biotics have the same effect when used against defended opponents no matter what, except for the specialised powers like Stasis and Singularity.

That said, I don't really understand what your point is regarding the 'Casual' point. If you'd rather defences are scaled back, what's the issue with playing on a difficulty that does this? I personally prefer to play Normal, in this and in ME1 - mainly because I prefer the layout of defences on that game, where's there's just enough to stop insta-lockdown on bosses and Elites. That's what these difficulties are there for. It's not like Insanity does that much different other than the defences - the enemies are a bit faster and powers don't last so long, but it's not like it;s a whole new game.

changing cooldowns is a great thing! .

Until you've tested this properly, you have no idea whether this is true or not. I gotta admit that I'm with Bozorg on this one - I'm skeptical mucking about with Cooldowns is realistically going to help, as any advantage you gain against enemies will be offset byt the fewer times you can use them.

Not to mention it'll inevitably slow down the game. I prefer to play my Adept fast and agressive, and having to wait ME1-style times for cooldown sounds like a horrid idea.

[JaegerBane]

Sparroww wrote...
As for Singularity I think it definitely needs to be both the Heavy and Wide evolutions to start off with (bigger radius and hold enemies longer are big musts). I would also like to see the Blackstorm HW's vortex possibly used as a possible application of Singularity.

I think this is along the lines of what I was mentioning earlier. I don't mind if Singulairty is some almighty wtfpwn CC nuke with a hefty cooldown, or a small, spammable defence-agnostic CC tool. What I do mind is that developers make up their mind as to what it's supposed to do, as it doesn't do the damage or have the range to accomplish the former but it's too arbitrary and unreliable to accomplish the latter. 

[The Spamming Troll]

Bozorgmehr wrote...

The Spamming Troll wrote...

bozo,

if shepard is a soldier first and foremost, how come i forgot to grab an actual firearm? the adept gets handcuffed by NOT having weapons training, as well as enemy protections.

You can play 80% of ME2 with bonus weapon, or 100% when you start a NG+. In ME3 this isn't an issue anymore.

the problem with the difficulties is the consistency of the difficulties each class faces. not the fact that, "hey, theres always casual if you suck!"

If you suck, you should not be able to cruise through the game unchallenged on Insanity. If you suck you start on an easier level to increase your skills so when you don't suck anymore you can raise the stakes and have a good time while still being challenged (a little).

the majority of ME2 players arent aware of when and how theyll get their
hands on a decent firearm. most prolly assumed theyed find something
like 100 reskinned laying around in crates, wouldnt they? even the new
players to the ME universe wouldnt know the shiruken, tempest, and the
locust if you have the DLC are the best weapons your class has to choose from. i wouldnt be suprised if some people get
their bonus weapon before they stumble across the tempest.

also, i was menitoning how the whole enemy protectons thing is different for every class, some more severely handicapped then other. nothing to do with my inability to use my thumbs and use a controller.

JaegerBane wrote...

The Spamming Troll wrote...
if
shepard is a soldier first and foremost, how come i forgot to grab an
actual firearm? the adept gets handcuffed by NOT having weapons
training, as well as enemy protections.

I don't
really understand this idea that the Adept 'doesn't get weapons
training'. Sure, when it starts off the weapons available are a load of
crap, but that's the same for all classes until they pick up more potent
stuff and upgrades. At the end of the day, the Adept can carry a
Phalanx, a Locust and an Arc Projector less than an hour into the game.
The idea that the Adept somehow carries no weapons is a complete myth.

there is a differnece in starting with the predetor and the shiruken, as apposed to also having a weapon thats cattered to your classes powers like the infiltrator and slow mo sniping and the vangaurd and CQC charging. have you ever ussedthe sniper rifle or the shotgun outside of combat classes? they become much more effective in a class that understadns the class *also* uses weapons.

Modifié par The Spamming Troll, 15 mai 2011 - 08:28 .

[JaegerBane]

The Spamming Troll wrote...
there is a differnece in starting with the predetor and the shiruken, as apposed to also having a weapon thats cattered to your classes powers like the infiltrator and slow mo sniping and the vangaurd and CQC charging.

Yes. However, it isn't the difference between things working and not working. It's not like you need a special power to use things like the Predator effectively.

have you ever ussedthe sniper rifle or the shotgun outside of combat classes?

Yes. My fave build is a modded Adept that carries a Revenant, Carnifex, Scimitar and Viper. I must've played it a dozen times, and I'm on a run through of it right now in time for ME3. It's great.

they become much more effective in a class that understadns the class *also* uses weapons.

I'm not really sure what the above actually means, but I'll assume your point is that the weapons perform much more effectively on a class that is specialised towards their function. If that's the case then I don't really know what else you expected - *obviously* a class that is entirely specialised towards close combat is going to be able to use Shotguns to the optimum. That's self evident.

It doesn't somehow mean, however, that weapons are 'ineffective' on an Adept.

[Ahglock]

As quickly as you can get the weapon upgrade it was one of the dumbest things I have seen in gaming in a while. Hey look now that I'm on this giant bad guy space ship I can pick up a shotgun, you know just like the dozens of shotguns we have on board of the ship I fly around in.

[JaegerBane]

Ahglock wrote...

As quickly as you can get the weapon upgrade it was one of the dumbest things I have seen in gaming in a while. Hey look now that I'm on this giant bad guy space ship I can pick up a shotgun, you know just like the dozens of shotguns we have on board of the ship I fly around in.

Tell me about it. I don't know what it was about that revelation about the Collectors that finally convinced Shepard to pick up an extra gun from that random pile of guns, but it sounds like Bioware got the message. At least ME3 won't have this.

[Bozorgmehr]

Yeah, I've played both Adept and Engineer who started with shotgun training (modded of course - and to get the Claymore - which isn't such a bad idea, getting a unique weapon I mean). It makes a huge difference early on. I think a lot of the complaining about the casters has everything to do with the rather lousy weapons they have at the start.

The combat classes start with one (or more) powerful weapon(s) AND have their unique power to increase weapon performance even further. Casters have crappy powers and weapons; not the best balance imo, and it doesn't make sense. Thank goodness this will (likely) be a thing of the past.

[kstarler]

As an adamant defender of ME2's mechanical superiority over ME1 (I loved both, but ME2 clearly has the better game play of the two), let me chime in and echo how glad I am that the weapon issue is, for the most part, being solved in ME3, especially for our console playing fellows who have a much more difficult time with modding their games.