904 réponses à ce sujet

[aimlessgun]

Yeah saving them for the Thorian would be an acceptable rationale. But if you're playing a prohuman renegade, keeping the colony viable is important for you as well.

[Dave of Canada]

My Renegade Shepard's logic behind wiping out the colony was that he didn't know if killing the Thorian would completely cure them, maybe it could resurface later or something. Then the random colonist shows up and mentions that people are getting sick (which people?!) because of their connection with the Thorian.

[Seboist]

Those are all good rationales for the Renegade path but unfortunately much like the Council decision, the Paragon path gets to have their cake and eat it.

[Rip504]

. ( Don't really care about the "Why".)

Ps. Let me clearify what I am saying about the Whole Renegades gets nothing and lack of content. It's BS.

"There is no dilemma! There can be a bad consequence for SHEPARD that still provides additional content for the PLAYER! (Bs The Player is Shepard it's a RPG.)

The problem with Renegade choices is that when you import them you often wind up with nothing. (Bs Wrong Bs.)It isn't a disaster, it isn't a success. Just nothing happens.(Bs Wrong Bs) This spoils the point of importing in the first place. Like I just said. (Your opinion based on wrong information.)

Now for story reasons Paragon decisions always having positive effects for Shepard is annoying,(Bs opinion,Doesn't annoy me.) yeah, but it is much less of an issue than the LACK OF CONTENT." (Bs Wrong Again! Bs)
 
As I said it is a RPG the player is Shepard. "It's our story."Anything that happens to Shepard,happens to me,since I will be playing it. As you pointed out.
 Renegades have imported content,NO MATTER WHAT. lol . Human Council,Wreav,Bonus for Importing,Conrad etc.  Spoils it for you,but that's just an opinion based on wrong information.
I enjoyed both my Renegade and Paragon Playthroughs. Nope I didn't get annoyed,just another random opinion,not a fact.
Now Shepard Paragon being much less of an issue then you being wrong,well is also an opinion I disagree with.

It's not that the Renegade lacks content. No it's about you throwing a b*tch fit because you didn't get what you wanted. Bioware delivered on their promise. They are right and you are wrong. Love it or hate it. It's true!

Modifié par Rip504, 25 mai 2011 - 09:45 .

[Azjurai]

It may just be me, but where's this human council people seem to talk about exactly? From what I recall the council still has aliens, and they just refuse to speak at you. Maybe along with not pulling the stupid move of wasting ships to save a couple of diplomats when near-certain death was about to kick you in the balls, you pissed in their coffee?

Played this gave every which way through Sunday, and still prefer renegade. Still notice a lot less impact when doing so. As people have said above, renegades don't really care about paragons getting bad content (or themselves getting bad content), it's all about the fact renegades get no real content. Easy to fix (as multiple people have pointed out wayt so do so there's no need to go over'em again), so I'm hoping they do it for ME3.

If paragon-only players want some magical candy world where everything is sunshine and raccoons, that's fine. They should get that. But renegades would sort of just like a few "Remember that Fist guy you shot? Thanks! He was selling crack to mah baby" moments.

Modifié par Azjurai, 25 mai 2011 - 11:04 .

[Dave of Canada]

Azjurai wrote...

It may just be me, but where's this human council people seem to talk about exactly? From what I recall the council still has aliens, and they just refuse to speak at you.

There's three decisions at the end of Mass Effect 1.

Save the Council, Concentrate on Sovereign and Let the Council die.

The first one leaves the old Council in charge with a human councilor.
The second one has the humans recreate the Council with the alien species.
The third one has humans recreate the Council with only other humans.

Either way, if the council died everybody still hates you (no dialogue changes) and the recreated councils always give the same reason for not wanting to see you. The all-human council doesn't want to see you because they fear you might put human interests ahead.


This is how I looked:

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 26 mai 2011 - 05:37 .

[Moiaussi]

Seboist wrote...

Those are all good rationales for the Renegade path but unfortunately much like the Council decision, the Paragon path gets to have their cake and eat it.

I still have trouble considering a scene in which you are told 'Thank you for saving us, but we think you are a loony idiot so we are dismissing anything you say and ordering you off into the boonies' as equal to 'cake.'

It is more like a pie in the face, like 'ha ha, you trusted us, you idiot.'

[jbblue05]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Azjurai wrote...

It may just be me, but where's this human council people seem to talk about exactly? From what I recall the council still has aliens, and they just refuse to speak at you.

There's three decisions at the end of Mass Effect 1.

Save the Council, Concentrate on Sovereign and Let the Council die.

The first one leaves the old Council in charge with a human councilor.
The second one has the humans recreate the Council with the alien species.
The third one has humans recreate the Council with only other humans.

Either way, if the council died everybody still hates you (no dialogue changes) and the recreated councils always give the same reason for not wanting to see you. The all-human council doesn't want to see you because they fear you might put human interests ahead.


This is how I looked:

I don't think their is an all-human council the ME2 intro never mentions it.and I was 100% renegade Leth the Couuncil die hihg-fived Udina for the all-human and made him councilor.  I always get human-led Council.  I'm guessing the all-human council was scrapped prior to release

Plus if their was.an all-human council I'm sure racial tensions would be 10000x  worse than a human led council

[Dave of Canada]

jbblue05 wrote...

I don't think their is an all-human council the ME2 intro never mentions it.

Subtle but it's actually there, news articles will call the Turians / Asari / Salarians "former Council races".

In addition to it, there's a different caption at the start of the game but it's barely any different from the reformed Council. Reformed Council mentions it as the "new human-led Council", the human-only simply says "human-led Council".

It's a bit confusing all around with the default text, though.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 26 mai 2011 - 07:15 .

[Seboist]

Since we're not even given the dignity of seeing the human led council, they could be blind quadriplegic midgets for all we know.

[Dave of Canada]

Saphra Deden wrote...

No, that is not how it works. The three choices, beyond whether the Council is alive or not, do not determine which ending you get. What determines that is your Paragon/Renegade score. The middle option gives 8 Paragon and 9 Renegade and the last one gives +32 Renegade (the first one is +25 Paragon). So they can only influence the ending in so much as they affect your Paragon/Renegade score and possibly tip it towards one side or the other.

If you have a lot of Paragon (more than Renegade) and you "Let them die" you will still get the new multiracial Council ending. If you are full Renegade but "Focus on Sovereign" you will get the all-human ending.

Are you sure? Even my Paragon got the "let's all remake it with the human races!" speech from Udina and my Renegade had the "Let's remake it with the alien species!".

[Aedan_Cousland]

I'm all for some paragon decisions backfiring, so long as some of the renegade decisions blow up in a player's face also. Most of the time when a thread pops up demaning that paragons be punished, it isn't out of a sense of fairness. It is renegade players wanting their path to be crowned the right one by Bioware, and with the Paragon path ending in an epic fail.

That isn't the case with the OP of course, but I do think that has generally been the case with players that prefer the renegade path.

Thankfully it sounds as if Bioware is going in the right direction with it in ME3. Apparently the renegade decision to keep the Collector base is a major mistake that ends up helping the Reapers, while the paragon decision to cure the genophage backfires on paragon players. It will be interesting to see how other decisions play out.

Modifié par Aedan_Cousland, 26 mai 2011 - 07:35 .

[jbblue05]

Dave of Canada wrote...

jbblue05 wrote...

I don't think their is an all-human council the ME2 intro never mentions it.

Subtle but it's actually there, news articles will call the Turians / Asari / Salarians "former Council races".

In addition to it, there's a different caption at the start of the game but it's barely any different from the reformed Council. Reformed Council mentions it as the "new human-led Council", the human-only simply says "human-led Council".

It's a bit confusing all around with the default text, though.

yeah I noticed that too its real inconsistent

Hopefully it gets properly addressed in ME3

[jamesp81]

I really don't see any justification, even in game, for wiping out the colonists.

You have the gas grenades. There is a concern that they might not work. If they DIDN'T work, then, yes, I could be convinced killing the colonists was necessary.

But they DID work as anyone who even bothered to try one found out quickly. It's not difficult at all to stun everyone with the grenades.

I am all for being able to choose your path, but this is one of my few criticisms of ME1. This particular paragon vs renegade choice didn't seem to be well thought out. The only reason you'd kill the colonists is if you're a ****** poor shot with the grenades and ran out, or you're just a douchebag.

Modifié par jamesp81, 26 mai 2011 - 08:49 .

[jamesp81]

thurmanator692 wrote...

Saphra Deden wrote...

thurmanator692 wrote...

Thats one of the cases in which the renegade choice is just "be a douchebag" not "make the hard decision for the greater good"

I disagree for the reasons I outlined.

And i disagree with the reasons you outlined. I saw my shepard reasoning that if the grenades didn't work, there was a perfectly good assault rifle on his back.

I see it your way.  This isn't a hard choice.  As it's written it's be a dick vs don't be a dick.

First time I played it, I figured I'd give the grenades a try and if they worked, good.  If the worst happened and they didn't work, I had plenty of firearms to deal with the problem.

[Frostmourne86]

In addition, after quickly browsing through this thread, how in any way does not having a quick cameo equal not having content? Look at Gianna Parasini: you get a quick dialogue that does nothing for the story, a drink and the ability to get a discount from the vendor Gianna's watching - the same discount you can get just by walking up to the kiosk and persuading the vendor to offer a discount. In the case of Conrad, while it's fun to shoot him in the foot, the discount you can only get from having him in your transferred file for that weapons shop is just as much as any other - and if Shepard [you] put more importance on upgrades then it doesn't matter how much they cost - Shepard's going to purchase them anyway. Not having content that doesn't really add much of anything - other than a nice feeling - doesn't make the game worse.

[Golden Owl]

alx119 wrote...

thurmanator692 wrote...

*Sigh* I used to be paragon, then i met the other paragons.

For people who insist on taking the 'moral high ground', you guys have REALLY short tempers. Paragons should totally get a little worked over in ME3. why?
because paragon=/=right and renegade=/=wrong

Paragons. expect the rachni decision to screw you a little bit in the end. If you don't mind spoilers at all, then let me tell you that i've read somwhere (escapist, i think) that there are going to be Rachni-based husks that sound like they're gonna be hella hard to kill. Renegades wont get this for obvious reasons. In fact, if all goes as i forsee, ME3 is going to be kinda switched around. Paragons will be given a lot more to fight, because their choices created more potential enemies than the renegades did. Renegades, however should be given more cameos, and possibly cool new toys, due to the Collector base

If this happens, I will be happy  
It's a realistic slap in the face, and I'd love to see it. It's a bit like: This is what you get for being a bloody saint.
Though more than one paragon will probably go renegade if that happens XD

Uh, so now it IS about punishing paragons? Not just leveling the experiences field for renegades and paragons then?