4818 réponses à ce sujet

[Broken1477]

Fine, bash away. I have said my peace and am going to go kill some puppies, burn down my neighbor's house and find a neighborhood child in who's cereal I will pee. Happy Holidays!

[Verticae]

Broken1477 wrote...

Yep, and Duke Nukem's lack of release did wonders for 3DRealms, too...promises, promises.

Wow, you managed to completely miss the point. It's a few days late. Really, big deal. The fact that they didn't have a 'when it's done' attitude about it alone is better business than a lot of companies show nowadays.

No, professionalism would have been to allocate the appropriate resources to complete the project.  Professionalism would be keeping the moderators who are speaking for your company on a customer-service friendly level.

They're not speaking for the company. If Torias gets a paycheck from BioWare, then he might be. For now, he's a volunteer that helps them run their forums, not make corporate decisions.


 

And I will contact them on Monday morning when their offices open.  Paid or not, a moderator is speaking for the company.  No two ways about it.  Interesting that you question my ability to run a business.  Is it because I provide excellent customer service and expect the companies I deal with to do the same?  Is it because the concept of a retailer is actually trying to provide good service such a foreign concept to you?  Most buyers and retailers do surf the forums to find out what customers like, what they are tired of, and what they want more of.  This particular instance just happens to pertain to a title I am currently using.

You said you were cancelling an order. That's very, very premature. The way you announced it, in public, without any official statement around, shows a lack of caring for the company you're in business with. That is what we call unprofessional, yes.

I disagree with your interpretation of the moderator's intent, but
regardless, insulting your customers is hardly the way to keep them
coming back and buying your product.

They're not his customers. End of.

So why exactly are you here, are you here to insult the people posting?  What are you bringing to the forum?  Everyone who is angry wanted to have the DLC by Christmas.  I guess by saying we all suck, you validate yourself somehow?  Are you fourteen?  Does your mom know you are playing a game rated "M"?  Did they forget to set the parental controls?

Ouch, somebody called me fourteen! The level of this conversation just went up a notch!

It was sarcasm towards BioWare, not the posters. As said, reading comprehension.

In what world am I not professional?  I am in my living room, not the board room.  I don't have to be professional here.

Right, you cancel your orders from at home, without consulting any co-worker or the company you order from.  You're so professional!

If you'd like a lesson in unprofessionalism, read the moderator's comment.  I think you have to go through specialized training to be THAT unprofessional.

He isn't, nor does he claim to be, a professional. In fact, the term 'professional' alone implies you're paid for it. He's not.

  The only non-professional thing I have done today is take the time to reply to your post.  Saying I have no understanding of commercial infrastructure, is ludicrous,  Commercial infrastructure is the very heart of my complaint.  BioWare is not providing their end of the upstream customer demand.  Furthermore, they are not willing to explain why they are failing to do so, therefore, with respect to demand for commercial infrastructure the key is maintaining competition in the output markets for a product they have promised to supply.

And you're still whining on public forums? Right. No, really, that's the best way to get a hold of corporate representatives!

BioWare is not maintaining a competitive edge in the market because they have dropped the ball with this DLC.  This places them in a non-strategic position, because they are showing the world that they cannot make good on their claims.

It's still the holiday season, it's still just DLC. This 'competitive edge' doesn't matter much here, considering this goes straight into their own pockets due to not needing a publisher. In other words, it's entirely irrelevant to the rant you posted.

Perhaps BioWare needs the refresher course in commercial infrastructure.  Besides anyone in the PC software business knows there's no real profit margin in it.  Stores carry it as more of a convenience/add-on item.  The only exceptions are high dollar items like MS Office, Windows, Peachtree Accounting, etc.  Otherwise, it's a lost leader.  You don't see free-standing PC software stores.  There's no money in it, and frankly, it only accounts for 5-8% of gross profit.  No business can stand on that.

5-8% of what? Without an accurate frame, this means nothing. 9% of supermarkets gross profit comes from freshly baked bread, yet as a whole, it's insanely profitable with up to 40% margins.

Plus, if there's no money in it, then why are you getting so riled up? Trouble seperating business and personal life?

Modifié par Verticae, 27 décembre 2009 - 02:41 .

[VengeanceofViper]

Verticae wrote...

Disection? Enchantment!

Broken1477 wrote...

Thank you, Torias.  You have just made my future gaming decisions for me, rather who I WON'T be purchasing software from.  This goes back to my first post, and BioWare's biggest problem...bad business.

You've managed to find one flaw in Bioware's otherwise near-perfect reputation. Good going. I'm sure there's no developers anywhere who've delayed games for more than a year.

Hello Mr. Customer, I see you are interested in purchasing this house/car/computer/cup of coffee/comic book, but "life is a series of challenges" and we are simply not professionals and therefore we cannot provide you with your product at this time.  Don't get upset!  "It's something you shrug at and move on to something else for now."

Yes, it would indeed have been very professional to release a product that wasn't yet ready. Another good professional quality is to base your decisions on the words of a spokesperson of the company you're dealing with, not a forum moderator. Although Torias has a big 'moderator' stamp, it doesn't mean he is in any way responsible for BioWare's actions. I would imagine, though, that he's sick and tired of all these rants on the forums, including yours. After all, moderating the forums is what he does.

Well, I have moved on.  I have moved on to anything that doesn't have a BioWare label attached to it.  You have insulted me, your customer, and my hard earned money.  Don't worry, though, I will continue to use and abuse your Dragon Age:  Origins title.  I will likely use and abuse your future products, as well.  You won't have to worry about my complaints, though, as I will likely be obtaining all of your future releases via B i t T o r r e n t or the like.  I would have gladly paid for them, but I can't bring myself to, now.  It's a matter of principle, you see.

I assume that if your wife would be five minutes late at your wedding, you'd start using and abusing her without any official ties, too? I mean, it's a matter of principles, you see.

I am also in the process of cancelling our orders for BioWare's products.  Oops, I didn't mention that I am the software buyer for the chain of computer stores that I co-own.  Gee, you didn't see that one coming, did you?  When my customers ask why we don't carry your titles, I'll show them this response, and explain that, for BioWare  "life is a series of challenges" and given BioWare's unreliability and poor customer service, we have chosen to spare you, our customer, the frustration of dealing with them.  If you want it, order it, but you won't find it here.  We appreciate you as a customer and don't want to be associated with any problems you may have with them.

I very much doubt that you have any connection to a store. If you would have, you would have tried to contact BioWare officially, rather than whine on a public(!) forum. This is not customer service, and the response you base this entire rant on, is the response of a non-employee; a forum moderator. If you cannot distinguish the two, I don't think you're competent enough to work in any store whatsoever.

Speaking of competence, nobody ever said tht life was a series of challenges for BioWare employees. It was directed at the wailers, such as yourself.

I have seen, perhaps the largest television ad campaign for DA: O than for any release in YEARS.  It's a shame that you couldn't have spent a little of that massive advertising budget on meeting your own, self imposed deadlines.  In the end, how can you measure how much business you have lost due to this?  This thread alone is reaching 200 pages and is being posted on by your disenfranchised customers every minute.  Surely I am not the only one who has a bad taste in their mouth from this. 

It's DLC. It's an hour's worth of gameplay. Surely, the fact that many people have already spent 100+ hours on the game, and are apparantly anticipating that tiny extra hour enough to post about it, means that they suck.


I'm sure you try and sound very professional, but you don't. Next to the blatant lack of reading comprehension, and little to no understanding of commercial infrastructure, you're actually saying you'll go and illegally download games from now on. If you were indeed in the software business, advocating piracy would be commercial suicide.


Nice try though, I'll give you that much.

 
I don't like to go off topic, but I will make an exception for you because you are just acting like a child who just got their first big word text book.  You know, no matter how many times you played Dungeons and Dragons, that special spell you learned of clairvoyance just does not work in the real world.
 
This man absolutely DOES own several stores. I know, because I have spoken at several of their training seminars over the last few years. I enjoyed the people, and their business ethics so much that I went to work for them.  The very best thing about him, and every one of his employees is that they GET IT! They understand that their customer base is their bread and butter. I think that's the message people are trying to get Across to BioWare.
 
When ANY person in that organization, from the owners all the way down to the stock man, walk out onto that sales floor and interact with any customer- a buyer, or even the ones that are clearly "just looking," they are ALL treated exactly the same. They are all treated like they have a sign on their head  that says "Make me feel important today." And you know what? That's exactly how they are treated. Every time. Buying or not, they are all made to feel just as important.
 
Employees don't sit on counters. They don't talk on the phone while you're in there shopping. They wrap your purchase to protect it before it is bagged. Little things that they don't have to do, but WANT to do. Why? Because they respect their customers. They want to make sure that they make every customer that crosses that lease line THEIR customer.
 
It is an excellent place to shop, and an excellent place to work. The whole customer service thing must be working for them also, because I just enjoyed a wonderful week at his Gulf Coast, beach front, vacation home. Which I have to say was really banging. That's the kind of perks employees get for doing a great job.
We are treated with respect, and in return, we work hard and do our best. I made my deadlines this month, and was treated to a outstanding vacation in return. Everyone made their goals, and they got great Christmas bonuses. I think the whole squabble over his business is just another way to divert attention away from the real issue-BioWare.
 
The real problem people are having here is that this forum IS suppose to be a place where they can express their concerns, or comments they have about BioWare software.  However, when they do, the moderator chastises them for it. What's up with that? If you don't want to hear consumer complaints about something that they expected to be out by now, then don't have a forum!
 
Having a forum where BioWare's own moderator tells people to shut up and go away is not just wrong on so many levels, but also the most unprofessional thing I have ever seen. What junior high did they hire their people from? Couldn't they have waited until they passed their "Junior business" class?
 
RUDE! If you wish to retain your consumers, learn to be a little more diplomatic. I didn't really even care that it was late, but I do now. Simply because of how it's being handled. In fact, I'll be calling Bio as soon as they open to see if they know what is being said on their behalf.
 
By the way, this DLC, late or not, is NOT the only flaw in Bioware's otherwise near-perfect reputation. Customer service has been a long time issue. With both Buyers, and consumers. You are out of touch, and know not of which you speak. Stick to playing games and leave business to people who know something about it.
 

[Killa Knight]

Any ideas when is actually comming out? Holidays are almost over?!?!

[Shadowulph]

Broken1477 you have my utmost respect! Does no one get it? Some do I think! It is a FACT there has been no response for over 2 weeks. Holiday Season or not there is no excuse, period! Vengeanceof Viper, Bibgar and JanHenDAO you have said it all. Some response would show they are serious about this, no response shows they don't give a damn! Just say its still being worked on or something! Moving on now...<_<

Modifié par Shadowulph, 27 décembre 2009 - 02:58 .

[allistare]

hey bioware i just wanted to say dragons age is epic game i love it i have the books dlcs and i have to say keep up the good work and for all you people put there complaning and whining drop that s... already when RTO comes out itll come i paid the game a play trough all six origin stories plus dlcs i buy the books becouse i admire and aprriciate the good work that bioware has done so give them som credit and rest for god sake its holidays so live and let live

[essarr71]

Little Paw wrote...


Essar - you make a few good points, but you are using quite a bit of conjecture in your response.
If they simply are releasing it late because they are making it better, then say that, instead of the silence. It was alluded to, but not really expressed. I suppose lowering the price a dollar (that makes me giggle) is one way of quelling the consumer, if that dollar REALLY meant something to me. To others it might, I will not speak for them.
I expressed in another post that I am the consumer with money to spend, not a fanboy, or a hardcore gamer. To most businesses I am a core client, but maybe not in gaming.
My business model would include having these lesser DLCs user ready well before the release of the intial game, a la Wardens Keep. Have a few more bullets in the gun and you can please the eguest even more.
If the hold up is one of the three platforms, then say it.
We are living in an information age, albeit usually bad information, but the excuse that people are "taking a holiday" like we are living in Brixton in the 1950's is a joke.
How long does a post expressing where they are with the release take?
If a customer contacts me while I am taking leisure time and it is important, I take the time to respond.
I do not see an out of office disclaimer on this website.
Also, if the holiday season, which is debatable, was really after Xmas then so many people wouldn't have expected it to be out already.
Children and students might be off this week until after New Year's but that is not all gamers.

The explination for the delay is somewhere in this steaming pile, and sorry that I don't have the desire to rummage an actual quote.  Still, it was explained that the pc version would probably be ready before christmas, but because of making player requested adjustments - primary on other platforms - that the date had to be pushed back.

The whole issue with holiday season being debatable really.. isn't debatable at all.  If they meant christmas, they'd have said christmas.  It's been said by a dozen people in the past handful of pages here: the holiday season stretches a few weeks.. and no amount of ignorance or refusal to get that concept is going to change the fact that rto isn't late, it just makes the line between patient maturity and childish complaining easier to see.

And while I can agree that $1 reduction in price is laughable to an individual, it's still a 20% reduction in price.  Do that math over a few hundred thousand or millions of sales and thats a pretty big number off Bio's bottom line.  Typically a company will lower a price AFTER a product is released, definately not before, so... yeah.  

I just find it funny that what I've seen since this thread was created was Bio listening to it's customers, going back to improve the product while lowering the price, and people burning them in effigy because theyre doing exactly what they said would happen.

Modifié par essarr71, 27 décembre 2009 - 03:09 .

[YohkoOhno]

The problem I see is that there is something that people who like to claim "the customer is always right" forget. Kindness and Respect is a two way street. If a patron is rude and abusive to their staff in a restaurant, a manager can tell them to GTFO. A lot of people think the phrase "the customer is always right" is an exuse to expect a sort of "verbal felatio" to be performed, or for the servants to lick their boots. That is wrong.



The moderator basically told people to calm down. This thread was started to inform people about it. It's not meant to be a constant complaint thread.



Personally, I think the thread should be locked--it's just getting too big and the actual message about delays are getting lost 20 or 30 pages back. If we just made it read only, people could actually get the message, which did state that it was most likely going to be delayed until after Christmas (certain on the PS3), and that they wouldn't give an update until they had an exact date.

[Leevice]

I really loved dragon age, but i rather have a real expansion instead of small pieces of DLC, especially if they requiere me to start all over again(and yes the ''you can only play DLC after the end-game mode'', isn't that satisfying, you're likely to be overpowered and walking over the DLC in about 35 min.

I was hoping on large pieces once in a while that would keep my interest in the game, wardens keep wasn't exactly a complete failure(although it was a bit short on value for money and no possible return to the keep wasn't smart)

Reading some posts here about unsatisfied customers and their complains. While i do agree on most points vengeance, i think that this statement doesn't include the customers side in this as well:

''The real problem people are having here is that this forum IS suppose to be a place where they can express their concerns, or comments they have about BioWare software''

True, but people need to mind their way of expressing their opinion. A lot of posts don't make any point and are only there to vent people's frustation.

And a moderator does NOT say''bugger off'' to a customer, that is indeed very unprofessional.

Modifié par Leevice, 27 décembre 2009 - 03:12 .

[PendleSoft]

Leevice wrote...

And a moderator does NOT say''bugger off'' to a customer, that is indeed very unprofessional.

Bet he mutters it under his breath a lot though.

[allistare]

you all people just complanning why this why that why, why..... bla bla bla bla bla

chill out Rto will come and so will other dlcs but sometime people need to rest and if they are still working on dlc its becouse of you guys you all think that to make a game is wahlala here it is well i got news for you its noooooooooot so stop ****tin and ****in

[Silensfurtim]

there are 4 kinds of people in this thread:



The Apologists - the people who really dont give a f*ck. the "its okay bioware youre doing a great job" bunch.



The People who complain about the release date - the impatient people



The People who just want some communication with the devs - the people who just want answers



The People who whine about the whiners - the bunch who really dont know whats going on in this thread.

[allistare]

Silensfurtim wrote...

there are 4 kinds of people in this thread:

The Apologists - the people who really dont give a f*ck. the "its okay bioware youre doing a great job" bunch.

The People who complain about the release date - the impatient people

The People who just want some communication with the devs - the people who just want answers

The People who whine about the whiners - the bunch who really dont know whats going on in this thread.

I agree

[TastyLaksa]

Shadowulph wrote...

Broken1477 you have my utmost respect! Does no one get it? Some do I think! It is a FACT there has been no response for over 2 weeks. Holiday Season or not there is no excuse, period! Vengeanceof Viper, Bibgar and JanHenDAO you have said it all. Some response would show they are serious about this, no response shows they don't give a damn! Just say its still being worked on or something! Moving on now...<_<

I too wish i could break down my frustration as well as broken1477. Who cares if he owns a business. Doesn't change a thing about how bioware dropped the ball on this DLC.

[TastyLaksa]

Silensfurtim wrote...

there are 4 kinds of people in this thread:

The Apologists - the people who really dont give a f*ck. the "its okay bioware youre doing a great job" bunch.

The People who complain about the release date - the impatient people

The People who just want some communication with the devs - the people who just want answers

The People who whine about the whiners - the bunch who really dont know whats going on in this thread.

Unfortunately if you add up the apologists and the people who whine about the whinners (a.k.a apologists wannabes), it's more than enough "support" for bioware products to have them keep their same old style making the other groups of people angry over and over again.

[TastyLaksa]

YohkoOhno wrote...

The problem I see is that there is something that people who like to claim "the customer is always right" forget. Kindness and Respect is a two way street. If a patron is rude and abusive to their staff in a restaurant, a manager can tell them to GTFO. A lot of people think the phrase "the customer is always right" is an exuse to expect a sort of "verbal felatio" to be performed, or for the servants to lick their boots. That is wrong.

The moderator basically told people to calm down. This thread was started to inform people about it. It's not meant to be a constant complaint thread.

Personally, I think the thread should be locked--it's just getting too big and the actual message about delays are getting lost 20 or 30 pages back. If we just made it read only, people could actually get the message, which did state that it was most likely going to be delayed until after Christmas (certain on the PS3), and that they wouldn't give an update until they had an exact date.

I for one think this thread should never have been created in the first place, given that they were not willing to put in the effort to actually answer the questions. Or at least rename the thread to "Come here to vent your frustrations. RTO is not out yet"

Or maybe call the thread "Give some suggestions about RTO we will either take them or not. But discuss away!"

Or "Fans who love us. Come defend our lack of ability to release on time!" 

But definitely put a warning that says "Warning. Filled with whinners." 

[Thomas9321]

This thread needs to be set on fire. Soon.

[szathmab]

there should be a separate forum for just DLC

[Jayce]

Oh noes! Bioware enployees don't come in here here and offer their firstborn every time I get impatient and fly into NERD RAGE.

I HATE! THEM I SHALL NEVER BUY A BIOWARE GAME AGAIN!!!!!111one111!!

AND HERE IS SOME ALLCAPS POMPOUS "I KNOW IT ALL" BULLCRAP JUST SO YOU KNOW SERIOUS JAY IS SERIOUS!

......

Ugh, people, they'll announce something when there's something to announce. If you can't handle the fact that  WHEN is sometime other than NOW, I suggest you find something else to occupy your time --or at least learn some flipping civility and patience!

Modifié par Jayce F, 27 décembre 2009 - 04:13 .

[YohkoOhno]

Here was the last update from Bioware

Hi everyone. Sorry for not popping in and providing another update sooner. Based on some of the feedback in this thread, we made the decision to revisit Return to Ostagar and make some small improvements, including the addition of a new Ostagar-specific achievement/trophy and a reduction in the price. This has required a patch/title update and some additional testing and certification. This has pushed our dates back and I can confirm that the PS3 version will not arrive until the New Year. For PC and X360, we're still working hard to get it out in time for Christmas but we're not out of the woods quite yet. We'll put out another press release once we're 100% confident of the dates.

[TastyLaksa]

Jayce F wrote...

Oh noes! Bioware enployees don't come in here here and offer their firstborn every time I get impatient and fly into NERD RAGE.

I HATE! THEM I SHALL NEVER BUY A BIOWARE GAME AGAIN!!!!!111one111!!

AND HERE IS SOME ALLCAPS POMPOUS "I KNOW IT ALL" BULLCRAP JUST SO YOU KNOW SERIOUS JAY IS SERIOUS!

......

Ugh, people, they'll announce something when there's something to announce. If you can't handle the fact that  WHEN is sometime other than NOW, I suggest you find something else to occupy your time --or at least learn some flipping civility and patience!

We're not asking for first born, cause some of them have no kids. So just their souls will do.

[Jimmy Fury]

narf.

Broken, Vengeance, you both missed the most important part of Verticae's post (along with the posts from everyone else who responded to Broken)



The moderator is not a Bioware employee (As made clear by the statement "Bioware devs are probably at home with their families / enjoying a short break.") .

Torias does not speak on behalf of the company. More importantly (pay attention now) Torias is not a customer service rep.

Therefore all the very serious rants about his (or her) unprofessional behavior are pointless.



Further more, you're both misquoting him. He didn't say "shut-up" he said "relax" and he said it specifically in reference to those people who were in a blood-rage over the whole ordeal.

(note: his mention of the more "hysterical / outlandishly outraged" posts)



And seriously folks. Relax. Some petty bickering in a forum is not worth missing out on ME2 or giving yourself an ulcer.

[Little Paw]

Silensfurtim wrote...

there are 4 kinds of people in this thread:

The Apologists - the people who really dont give a f*ck. the "its okay bioware youre doing a great job" bunch.

The People who complain about the release date - the impatient people

The People who just want some communication with the devs - the people who just want answers

The People who whine about the whiners - the bunch who really dont know whats going on in this thread.

How about the people who want to see better business practices in the gaming industry overall, and want Bioware to lead the way? I have not blasted Bioware in my posts at all.
It is not enough to say that we fall into "The People who just want some communication with the devs - the people who just want answers" camp.
I am commenting on the entire business model and offering ideas and suggestions.
Luckily for me, I get to perfect a business plan and model in my professional life, but here I can only offer suggestions from the viewpoint of a consumer and perhaps offer some insight.
Hey, I want Bioware to make TONS of money! Too many companies I enjoyed (Troika for one) folded while being fantastic at making games. Those who complain about EA being involved do not see the advantage of the financial backing it offers Bioware. EA probably gets sued for more than most gaming companies even make.

As a businessperson I see the apologists as peole I would not hire - since they do not see the failure of Bioware to maximize profit and are not acknowledging any areas for improvement. Those would be scary employees. Apologists are apathetic, more clam, or maybe just shy away from having hardline opinions, but again, my employees that do not have strong opinions based on facts are the ones I am usually working on a succession plan for.
Whining abut whiners...pretty much are also apologists or think that people complaining are unhealthy or unhappy. I am perfectly happy...but it is an open forum, and we can hope Bioware and EA can find some kind of constructive feedback out of some of the posts that they value.
Release date complainers - I do not agree with these people at all. It is about going off half cocked not a hard release date. I would have spent $20-$30 by now if there was product offered. I will not spend that now especially with ME2 almost out. Perhaps their business plan is being met financially, so they are not concerned about this. These DLCs might not be worth the work they put into them...I would not know.
Again, I want Bioware to make money, but also make improvements. Someone at Bioware, CFOs and other bean counters like any other company, are always going to wonder how much they could have made if decision A or B was made or if plan A or B was adhered to.

That said - I hope it comes out soon. I have the points and nothing to use them on.

[Eurypterid]

essarr71 wrote...

The explination for the delay is somewhere in this steaming pile, and sorry that I don't have the desire to rummage an actual quote.

No need to rummage for dev quotes/posts. All you have to do is click on the BioWare logo under the thread title in the forum listing. That will bring up all the dev posts in the thread.