At the point in the story near the end of act 2 when you are talking to the Arishok about Saemus and Petrice he says this about Petrice. "Resolve this or her hiding place will be reduced to rubble." At this time Anders has already been hinting of doing something big and seeking your support. The kind of explosion we see at the Chantry most people agree is pretty substantial considering the components that he asks you to help him collect.
The technology of Gatlock seems to be wholly a Qunari closely guarded secret. I could easily see the Arishok pulling another move of accidently leaving detailed information if not instructions or components out for the right person to find. Perhaps he had a direct hand in it or, after he is gone there are still a few Qunari around that saw an opportunity for a little pay back.
Plausable?
Was Anders working with the Qunari?
Débuté par
Beerfish
, mai 11 2011 01:42
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#2
Posté 11 mai 2011 - 01:46
Jedi Master of Orion
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Why would he do so? He said it there was no profit in empowered those not of the Qun. He also said that every Qunari there was bound by the Qun to defend the forumla to the death.
Modifié par Jedi Master of Orion, 11 mai 2011 - 01:47 .
#3
Posté 11 mai 2011 - 02:02
Beerfish
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Jedi Master of Orion wrote...
Why would he do so? He said it there was no profit in empowered those not of the Qun. He also said that every Qunari there was bound by the Qun to defend the forumla to the death.
He is very convenient at talking with conviction as long as it suits his immediate needs. He basically gave away their poison gas, something one could argue is pretty damaging in it's own right. He hated Kirkwall and there are Qunari who do not follow the Qun absolutely. They had quite a few dissedents in thier ranks.
They may have also not taught Anders how to make the 'boom' but arranged for him to place it after he collected some components for them or even better throw people off their track by collecting components that were not used.
Modifié par Beerfish, 11 mai 2011 - 02:04 .
#4
Posté 11 mai 2011 - 02:14
BigBad
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As far as I know, the Gaatlok is entirely non-magical. It's gunpowder. The qunari have a deep and inherent distrust of magic.
Anders' bomb, on the other hand, is explicitly magical. Gunpowder cannot make buildings levitate into the air, separate like glowing Lego blocks, and then explode horizontally.
Anders' bomb, on the other hand, is explicitly magical. Gunpowder cannot make buildings levitate into the air, separate like glowing Lego blocks, and then explode horizontally.
#5
Posté 11 mai 2011 - 02:19
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He didn't give away the Saarqamek. He just used it as a decoy behind two armed guards. Somebody still had to go and forcibly take it.
How would he know that Anders would use it to destroy the Chantry? Why would he want to empower mages of all people, they'd probably be the last people he'd want to see with Gaatlok. Why would he even care about the Chantry being destroyed? He said "her hiding place will be reduced to rubble" in the context of destroying it to find or kill her, not out of revenge. How could he know that the people he gave it to would not use it against the Qunari? Also, the Arishok's plan was the seize control of Kirkwall from the Nobility and it was very soon foiled by Hawke. It didn't seem like he'd have time to plan for such a contingency before he was killed. In fact sometimes he gets to leave with Isabella at his own pace, so there would be little to no real need for any contingency at all.
How would he know that Anders would use it to destroy the Chantry? Why would he want to empower mages of all people, they'd probably be the last people he'd want to see with Gaatlok. Why would he even care about the Chantry being destroyed? He said "her hiding place will be reduced to rubble" in the context of destroying it to find or kill her, not out of revenge. How could he know that the people he gave it to would not use it against the Qunari? Also, the Arishok's plan was the seize control of Kirkwall from the Nobility and it was very soon foiled by Hawke. It didn't seem like he'd have time to plan for such a contingency before he was killed. In fact sometimes he gets to leave with Isabella at his own pace, so there would be little to no real need for any contingency at all.
Modifié par Jedi Master of Orion, 11 mai 2011 - 02:19 .
#6
Posté 11 mai 2011 - 02:26
LobselVith8
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I've wondered how Anders could have formulated such an explosion. It's never explicitly stated, but I thought it could have been a mixture of knowledge he could have gained from Justice (as Spirits seem to be have been around for centuries, and Merrill knows the only ones who could have any extensive knowledge about Arlathan and the Eluvians are spirits and demons) and Anders' time with Dworkin the Mad in Amaranthine, who was experimenting on explosives before he vanished.
#7
Posté 11 mai 2011 - 02:30
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Dworkin's explosives were lyrium based though weren't they?
#8
Posté 11 mai 2011 - 02:37
BigBad
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Dworkin's explosives were lyrium-based, yes.
I agree that Anders' bomb was likely based on Dworkin's research. Even though Dworkin came closer than anyone else to duplicating the gaatlok (and is targeted for assassination by the qunari for this), his equivalents were still based on the magical properties of lyrium.
Anders takes Dworkin's research, refines it in the other direction (more magic, not less) for more power using Tevinter lore, and turns it loose.
I agree that Anders' bomb was likely based on Dworkin's research. Even though Dworkin came closer than anyone else to duplicating the gaatlok (and is targeted for assassination by the qunari for this), his equivalents were still based on the magical properties of lyrium.
Anders takes Dworkin's research, refines it in the other direction (more magic, not less) for more power using Tevinter lore, and turns it loose.
#9
Posté 11 mai 2011 - 02:38
LobselVith8
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Jedi Master of Orion wrote...
Dworkin's explosives were lyrium based though weren't they?
The ones he specifically worked on with the Warden-Commander's help were with lyrium sand. I'd assume he's tried different variations, though.
#10
Posté 11 mai 2011 - 02:45
Foolsfolly
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No.
Hell no.
Oh god no.
Anders is all about Mage freedom and however he feels about Templars he has to feel worse about the Qunari for how they treat mages. Working for the Qunari and Anders just don't work.
Hell no.
Oh god no.
Anders is all about Mage freedom and however he feels about Templars he has to feel worse about the Qunari for how they treat mages. Working for the Qunari and Anders just don't work.
#11
Posté 11 mai 2011 - 02:54
Sussurus
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Qunari hunt down anyone with knowledge of their explosive even if it means the death of every Qunari.
The Arishok states clearly that his entire force would defend to the death the gatlock, because the Qun demands it.
It's not something he'd give away as a qunari.
Though given his very Tal Vashoth nature later on I'd say he was close to doing anything.
The Arishok states clearly that his entire force would defend to the death the gatlock, because the Qun demands it.
It's not something he'd give away as a qunari.
Though given his very Tal Vashoth nature later on I'd say he was close to doing anything.
#12
Posté 11 mai 2011 - 03:22
Peer of the Empire
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Jedi Master of Orion wrote...
He didn't give away the Saarqamek. He just used it as a decoy behind two armed guards. Somebody still had to go and forcibly take it.
How would he know that Anders would use it to destroy the Chantry? Why would he want to empower mages of all people, they'd probably be the last people he'd want to see with Gaatlok. Why would he even care about the Chantry being destroyed? He said "her hiding place will be reduced to rubble" in the context of destroying it to find or kill her, not out of revenge. How could he know that the people he gave it to would not use it against the Qunari? Also, the Arishok's plan was the seize control of Kirkwall from the Nobility and it was very soon foiled by Hawke. It didn't seem like he'd have time to plan for such a contingency before he was killed. In fact sometimes he gets to leave with Isabella at his own pace, so there would be little to no real need for any contingency at all.
As far as general strategy goes it makes perfect sense to have the mages devastate the nations of Thedas and vice versa. Just in time for a Qunari invasion
#13
Posté 11 mai 2011 - 03:41
Foolsfolly
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As far as general strategy goes it makes perfect sense to have the mages devastate the nations of Thedas and vice versa. Just in time for a Qunari invasion
The Qunari in DA2 state a few times they do not care nor are they actively pursuing conquest or indoctrination. They just want their relic and then they're gone.
They will invade one day, but that's a part of the Qun just like the Chantry will eventually try to convert the Qunari because their belief is that they must spread the Chant everywhere. The philosophies of the two both will eventually lead to....aggressive expansion!
....leave me alone, I just watched Dark Knight again.
#14
Posté 11 mai 2011 - 03:47
Beerfish
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Foolsfolly wrote...
No.
Hell no.
Oh god no.
Anders is all about Mage freedom and however he feels about Templars he has to feel worse about the Qunari for how they treat mages. Working for the Qunari and Anders just don't work.
Anders didn't seem to care much at all during the kejotan quest. He also showed clearly that he didn't care about a lot of mages as long as he met his desired end. he even murdered a defensless young female mage. Anders is not Anders, he is vengance anders and would be perfectly willing to sacrifice many mages as long as he acheived his desired end game.
#15
Posté 11 mai 2011 - 03:49
Beerfish
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Peer of the Empire wrote...
Jedi Master of Orion wrote...
He didn't give away the Saarqamek. He just used it as a decoy behind two armed guards. Somebody still had to go and forcibly take it.
How would he know that Anders would use it to destroy the Chantry? Why would he want to empower mages of all people, they'd probably be the last people he'd want to see with Gaatlok. Why would he even care about the Chantry being destroyed? He said "her hiding place will be reduced to rubble" in the context of destroying it to find or kill her, not out of revenge. How could he know that the people he gave it to would not use it against the Qunari? Also, the Arishok's plan was the seize control of Kirkwall from the Nobility and it was very soon foiled by Hawke. It didn't seem like he'd have time to plan for such a contingency before he was killed. In fact sometimes he gets to leave with Isabella at his own pace, so there would be little to no real need for any contingency at all.
As far as general strategy goes it makes perfect sense to have the mages devastate the nations of Thedas and vice versa. Just in time for a Qunari invasion
Exactly, this is a best case scenario for the Qunari if they have designs on invasion. Mages and tempalrs battling, chantry in total disarray, possible the devine sending a large force to kirkwall. Perfect time to move in.
#16
Posté 11 mai 2011 - 03:50
Beerfish
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Foolsfolly wrote...
As far as general strategy goes it makes perfect sense to have the mages devastate the nations of Thedas and vice versa. Just in time for a Qunari invasion
The Qunari in DA2 state a few times they do not care nor are they actively pursuing conquest or indoctrination. They just want their relic and then they're gone.
They will invade one day, but that's a part of the Qun just like the Chantry will eventually try to convert the Qunari because their belief is that they must spread the Chant everywhere. The philosophies of the two both will eventually lead to....aggressive expansion!
....leave me alone, I just watched Dark Knight again.
The Qunari and the Arishok in particular deceive as much as anyone in the game, they also twist the Qun to suit them best at any given time. I wouldn't trust the words of the Arishok any further than I could throw the big fellow.
#17
Posté 11 mai 2011 - 03:53
MyKingdomCold
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Beerfish wrote...
Foolsfolly wrote...
No.
Hell no.
Oh god no.
Anders is all about Mage freedom and however he feels about Templars he has to feel worse about the Qunari for how they treat mages. Working for the Qunari and Anders just don't work.
Anders didn't seem to care much at all during the kejotan quest. He also showed clearly that he didn't care about a lot of mages as long as he met his desired end. he even murdered a defensless young female mage. Anders is not Anders, he is vengance anders and would be perfectly willing to sacrifice many mages as long as he acheived his desired end game.
Anders does care during the quest with Ketojan. He disapproves when Ketojan says he still has to die even if you help him. Ketojan even gets into an argument with him about it.
This is what Anders says, Of all the ridiculous, spineless, mind-controlled, senseless piece of **** arguments I've ever heard!"
So, he does care how magi are treated by the Qunari.
Modifié par MyKingdomCold, 11 mai 2011 - 04:01 .
#18
Posté 11 mai 2011 - 01:44
Beerfish
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MyKingdomCold wrote...
Anders does care during the quest with Ketojan. He disapproves when Ketojan says he still has to die even if you help him. Ketojan even gets into an argument with him about it.
This is what Anders says, Of all the ridiculous, spineless, mind-controlled, senseless piece of **** arguments I've ever heard!"
So, he does care how magi are treated by the Qunari.
He doesn't particularly care about Ketojan, he cares about the ideal of a mage having a chance at his beacon of freedom and not leaping for it.
#19
Posté 11 mai 2011 - 01:52
Maria Caliban
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I don't think so. More likely, it's a bit of foreshadowing, such as when Aveline tells Anders, 'Of all the mages I know, you're the one I always thought would go out with a bang.'Beerfish wrote...
Plausable?
#20
Guest_Alistairlover94_*
Posté 11 mai 2011 - 01:54
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Maria Caliban wrote...
I don't think so. More likely, it's a bit of foreshadowing, such as when Aveline tells Anders, 'Of all the mages I know, you're the one I always thought would go out with a bang.'Beerfish wrote...
Plausable?
Subtle.
#21
Posté 11 mai 2011 - 01:55
DOYOURLABS
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The Qunari are 100% anti-mage. You can see that from Sten's dialogue in Origins, and Ketojan in DA2. They wouldn't help out a mage seeking freedom.
#22
Guest_Alistairlover94_*
Posté 11 mai 2011 - 02:01
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DOYOURLABS wrote...
The Qunari are 100% anti-mage. You can see that from Sten's dialogue in Origins, and Ketojan in DA2. They wouldn't help out a mage seeking freedom.
Indeed. No helping Saarebas or bas sareebas.
#23
Posté 11 mai 2011 - 02:03
PlumPaul93
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DOYOURLABS wrote...
The Qunari are 100% anti-mage. You can see that from Sten's dialogue in Origins, and Ketojan in DA2. They wouldn't help out a mage seeking freedom.
they would if the writers want them to.
#24
Guest_Alistairlover94_*
Posté 11 mai 2011 - 02:05
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PlumPaul82393 wrote...
DOYOURLABS wrote...
The Qunari are 100% anti-mage. You can see that from Sten's dialogue in Origins, and Ketojan in DA2. They wouldn't help out a mage seeking freedom.
they would if the writers want them to.
It's not like David Gaider can't retcon anymore stuff, right?
#25
Posté 11 mai 2011 - 02:15
highcastle
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DOYOURLABS wrote...
The Qunari are 100% anti-mage. You can see that from Sten's dialogue in Origins, and Ketojan in DA2. They wouldn't help out a mage seeking freedom.
QFT. Additionally, Anders seems to be pretty anti-Qunari himself. If you take him along on the Ketojan quest, he's pretty much disgusted by their treatment of the Saarebas. He wouldn't willingly work with them, and I doubt they'd work with him either.
