30 réponses à ce sujet

[blothulfur]

I think any setting can be original and unique if the designers simply commit to it and dig deep into the different cultures and mores of the societies and not settle for the same tired old cliches of dudes in full plate, big bads and yadda yadda.

Hell though Tolkiens vision maintains an autocratic grip over the genre his inspiration the norse sagas and mythologies have never been really explored in depth or used to their full potential, kenning poetry, the mystic application of allfathers runes, the dynamism and adaptability of the people and their petty vindictive bickering that would birth the first western parliament.

I would have liked to see painted ash warriors in Ferelden, a unique style of dress such as the kilt or trousers where the rest of Thedas wears long tunic a la the romans, simplistic mail coats with iron plates strapped atop instead of fully articulated armour, as it was apart from the fabulously designed mabari carvings decorating everything I just did not get a feel for the Fereldens that I was expecting from the codex writings.

In fact the dwarves were the only race that sprang off the screen for me with their seperate language, angular architecture, deeply conservative mindset and labyrinthine power plays that showed the vitality and ingenuity of their culture while it slowly fades in importance and power. Unfortunately the companion we recieved to represent them was a tired old throwback to other gameworlds when we could have had an emmisary as effective as Sten was in bringing the alien ideology of the Qun to life.

In an ideal world I would like a game set in an ancient living city at the crossroads of the world such as Byzantium (Minrathous?) where different and distinct cultures from the ancient world, the dynamic young barbarians countries and impossibly exotic far off foreign nations rub shoulders, plot and parley while a deeply personal and existential plot ties into the power plays and and scheming of the great and grasping.

And i'd like to be at the centre of such things not a janitor who cleans up at the end of everything then buggers off into the sunset, abandoning everything the game made us fight for.

[ajm317]

First of all on the technology thing, that's actually been done a lot. It's especially popular in anything coming out of Japan. If we take Final Fantasy for example technology is a staple of the series, whether it's steampunk like in FF VI or FF IX or futuristic like in FF X or FF XIII. It also pops up in western sources. Take comic books for example, the New Gods of DC and the Asgardians of Marvel are decidedly techno-magical. It also pops up in games, like in Too Human. Even DA has printing, gunpowder and sewers. It might not be as done to death as traditional fantasy, but it's been done a lot.

As to the prevalence of western medieval fantasy settings and whether anything new can be done with them, I would argue yes. Ultimately the western medieval setting is just a backdrop to tell stories that have to make sense and be relevant to a modern western audience, and I think the medieval fantasy setting is flexible enough to allow virtually any kind of story to be told. It's like asking if anything new can be done in drama set in a real world contemporary setting. No one would ask that because it's ridiculous on its face. Fantasy is most interesting in my opinion when its used to comment on issues relevant to our modern world, and it allows its writers to do that by talking about our world without actually talking about it. A game about the PATRIOT act would immediately carry baggage and controversy with it and people would view the game through certain lenses based on their prior political convictions. A game about templars and mages sidesteps this baggage while still being able to debate the central points.

In this context it's clear why western medieval settings are so prevalent. It is precisely because they are familiar. On the one hand this saves on exposition. Bioware doesn't have to explain what an elf is for example. Everyone knows what an elf is. On the other hand if you want to talk about modern society in a fictional setting you need a fictional setting that resembles modern society to a certain degree. Modern western societies are the direct descendants of medieval Europe. There are a lot of differences of course, but there are more similarities. A game set in a bronze age setting might be an interesting change of pace, but would be more difficult. Bronze age Mesopotamia is fundamentally alien to modern audiences. They had a different philosophical background, and dealt with different issues from different viewpoints in different ways. This makes it more difficult to meaningfully comment on modern society using such a platform, and certainly it is less flexible in this role. That's not to say you couldn't do a really good game like that, but I don't know that you could use it as a standard platform for an entire genre that people would find interesting.

Modifié par ajm317, 11 mai 2011 - 04:37 .

[Sussurus]

Arcanum... tech has come and conquered, magic is it's anthisis.
Oil and water too much of one destroys the other conflicts arise, tech is an advantage as masses can use it.
Traditions are hard to let go and magic is still more powerful than tech in its use.
By far the most thought out and detailed examination of fantasy and steampunk combined.

However no game has yet come close to making such a thought out universe since imo.
As class systems in DA:2 have also streamlined it would remove any possiblity of making as good a system to show off such tech in a good way.

DA:O's even would not have the depth tbh and it had vast amounts, try Arcanum for a class system that it would require to do this well.

Modifié par Sussurus, 11 mai 2011 - 04:47 .

[GenericPlayer2]

Some of the people in this thread talked about stagnation in the fantasy genre vs science fiction. I was giving it some thought today and realized that it is rare that something comes along in Sci Fi that is truly different. The last thing I remember being completely new was BSG.

Vulcans are space elves! The Wraith from Stargate Atlantis are Vampires. Several Sci Fi shows have a race with a very strong warrior tradition, like Klingons, Jaffa, Krogan, Mimbari....etc. In space-based Sci Fi humans are almost always portrayed as the newcomers with lots of potential to shape events to come.

So I guess what I am saying is that with Sci Fi not much changes either!

[Medhia Nox]

I haven't read many posts in the thread - but I think Fantasy needs to "grow up".

Tolkien is amazing - and many of his adaptations of mythological creatures will remain forever part of fantasy... but, it shouldn't be all fantasy is. Tolkien created a complex world - with a deep history (read the Silmarillion).

Magic is one of the greatest criminals of fantasy. High-magic worlds are often trite and unsophisticated. "A wizard did it." is a complete cop out.

Lack of any real knowledge of "medieval" history. Of course fantasy isn't "medieval" - though most people think it's at least based off of it. What it's actually based off of is modern life with a coating of medieval costume design. Women are equal - homosexuality is tolerated - free thinking goes unchallenged - there are no slaves - most knights are noble and brave, most villains are absolute.

I think it's the severe level of unsophistication in much of fantasy fiction that will eventually hurt the genre. It's why I turned my back on it for a long time in favor of science fiction ((which, is actually all fantasy anyway. Aliens, faster than light travel, teleportation - there is no information to support these things are "reality" any more than dragons, elves, and magic))

-----

Personally I am drawn to low-magic worlds now. Conan is an excellent "sword and sorcery" (which is actually "middle-magic")

The new "Camelot" is interesting - as is "Game of Thrones" (I have not had a chance to read the novels.)

My final opinion is the magic is the greatest enemy of fantasy. It makes writers extremely lazy. A writer is told to "set rules and keep consistent" - but most fantasy writers who use magic too much do exactly the opposite. They make no rules (presumeably for the mystery of magic) - and never stick to the ones they apply (Dragon Age constantly breaks their rules and adds new ones when it suits them).

Science Fiction can be just as lazy - but I think its proponents hold it to a different standard.

[Wereparrot]

88mphSlayer wrote...

they should go back in time to the bronze age instead of always using medieval fantasy

Yeah. I like medieval settings, but I think that it couldn't hurt the fantasy genre if it branched out a bit on occasion. I liked the Industrial Revolution setting of Fable III, but would also like to see different areas of history covered, like the Broze Age as you say, and I would like to see other cultures represented aswell; I liked the Eastern theme of Aurora in the same game, and while I liked running around in the clearly Western setting of Acre in Assassin's Creed, I also liked Damascus.