214 réponses à ce sujet

[Leonia]

There are some people that do not hate or like Cerberus. But TIM isn't interested in impressing people, he just wants to get results.

"Judge us not by our methods but by what we seek to accomplish."

Modifié par leonia42, 11 mai 2011 - 12:52 .

[Icinix]

88mphSlayer wrote...


metrics would also say ME3 should only have 1 class - soldier

Yeah...you got me there...

But it does explain the continual evolvement with combat to it becoming as engaging and reactive as it sounds.

[Gill Kaiser]

Where are you guys getting the idea that Cerberus has teamed up with the Reapers? As I understand it, all we know is that they're trying to kill Shepard.

[Apollo Starflare]

The most difficult thing the writers need to do to convince me with the change in direction is explain TIM's part in it. He struck me as a lot of things in ME2 but not unintelligent and spiteful. Which is exactly what he will seem if he is going after Shepard before dealing with the Reapers or even worse, making a deal with the Reapers.

I'm willing to believe there is a good explanation surrounding the Cerberus change of direction, but it's definitely contraversial in the meantime.

As for those saying 'haha you should have known' well, speaking for myself I always presumed Cerberus wasn't trustworthy but there is far more evidence to suggest the group puts Human interests above all else and despite not being a bastion of justice and virtue obviously wasn't a wholey evil organisation (there are plenty of crewmen who aren't crazed henchmen for starters). They just came across as an extremist group who Did What Must Be Done, ends justifying the means and all that. With no love for alien dominance, but no apparent desire (at a ground level) for the extermination of all non human life.

Another spanner in the works of the 'they are biding their time until the Reapers have weakened the aliens' theory is that the Reapers are not going after the alien races! They want the Humans first and foremost. Cerberus would have been mad to believe otherwise after the events of ME2 as well. Sure the Council races look like they will suffer as well, but Earth is obviously going to be a big deal in the game, going well beyond 'acceptable losses'.

With all that said I also don't think the decision to keep the base will be purely negative. Look at the Rachni decision, or the Council decision. Most big decisions in the series have come with both positive and negative repurcussions, and I doubt the Base will be any different. I'm putting my money on it affecting one of the plots surrounding recruiting a race/civilisation or perhaps even fighting the Reapers themselves. The decision will matter, regardless of whether Cerberus can be sided with.

...And afterall, whose to say they stay on your tail for the whole game? Maybe there is an opportunity to take control of them and use them against the Reapers?

@Gill: It's because one of the articles speculated that 'they are working with the Reapers'. It isn't explicitly stated in the article whether the previewer wrote that because of insider info, or just pure speculation based on the fact they are after Shep.

Modifié par Apollo Starflare, 11 mai 2011 - 01:12 .

[88mphSlayer]

i just think TIM working for the reapers is about as likely as TIM working for the Council, really what's the difference to TIM?

[Someone With Mass]

Saphra Deden wrote...
Except, you know, they aren't. You just want to believe that because it makes it easier for you to justify your hatred of them. Rather unnecessary, I say. Well adjusted (but misguided) people have plenty of reasons to dislike Cerberus without inventing lies about them.

Yeah, except for that part when TIM flat out says "Cerberus IS humanity!" 

And I'm sure they'd have used the Collector base to benefit mankind as a whole, right? Same with all those useless biotic and geth experiments. 

[Apollo Starflare]

88mphSlayer wrote...

i just think TIM working for the reapers is about as likely as TIM working for the Council, really what's the difference to TIM?

Indeed. In fact siding with the Reapers would be worse for TIM's goals, they are uncontrollable whereas if he worked with the Council he might be able to get even more influence within Galactic politics, perhaps even maneuvering Cerberus to a particularly strong position post-invasion ready to take over or make big gains in the aftermath. Helping the Reapers (as is being proven in early footage) only makes Earth, and surely Cerberus, weaker. The opposite of his goals.

Some posters let their disapproval of TIM and his methods (which is fair enough, he's not a nice fellow) blind them a bit to how little sense it makes. Obviously we aren't seeing the whole picture, but surely it isn't as simple as 'lol The Indoctrinated Man'.

[jbblue05]

This sucks I really wanted to kick some Reaper ass alongside Cerberus.

I'm guesssing the experiments done on Shepard in Arrival have something to do with Cerberus attacking Shepard

[DaBigDragon]

I'm thinking the Reapers close proximity to the galaxy is affecting the Illusive Man's mind, what with his run-in with that Reaper artifact years ago that messed up his eyes.

[Seboist]

Apparently in retrospect the whole point was to build up Cerberus as a villain in ME3 despite all the signs of TIM greatly admiring Shepard and hints at continued Cerberus cooperation post SM.

In other words it was all a load of bull****.

[M-Sinistrari]

Seboist wrote...

Apparently in retrospect the whole point was to build up Cerberus as a villain in ME3 despite all the signs of TIM greatly admiring Shepard and hints at continued Cerberus cooperation post SM.

In other words it was all a load of bull****.

What hints?  I'm honestly curious since I've never had anything of the sort in my renegade playthroughs.

[Alpha-Centuri]

Seboist wrote...

Apparently in retrospect the whole point was to build up Cerberus as a villain in ME3 despite all the signs of TIM greatly admiring Shepard and hints at continued Cerberus cooperation post SM.

In other words it was all a load of bull****.

Huh?

Can you expand on that? When I do a Renegade playthrough, I didn't get that. Shepard sorta scolds him, and tells him that he(Shepard) can save the world on his own.

Here is a video of the ending dialogue after you keep the base. Where is the hint that there will be continued Cerberus cooperation?

www.youtube.com/watch

You want a hint at ME3? Play LOTSB. Liara has intel that rivals and/or surpasses Cerberus, and she has never tried to kill you like Cerberus has (ME1), or sent you into a trap (ME2-Collector Ship). Why would Bioware make a redundant source of information by allying you to theShadow Broker who is more trustworthy than TIM? The proof is in the pudding.

In retrospec, I'd say that the goal was to expand on the universe by fleshing out characters that will be players in the finale. Sorta like LotR: Two Towers. Sauron was no closer to being defeated, but we learned a heck of alot about the world in it.

[alperez]

The funny thing is they could have got around this by just making blowing up the base mandatory.

At least that way they'd have an easy cop out as to why suddenly cerberus go from Shepard's the only hope to Shepard must be killed.

The problem they have now is that unless they come up with a complex and compelling argument as to why cerberus is after shepard they risk turning the storyline into a joke and the problem with complex and compelling arguments in me3 is they don't fit into an easily understandable game for people who haven't played the other 2 in the series.

We will probably get the usual cliches and noting complex but i hope for more than that otherwise it takes a lot away from the epicness of the trilogy and we may end up looking at it as Bioware's ewok moment.

[Seboist]

There's dialogue options like "You're on my team now' and "we need each other" in both of the endings. That and in LOTSB(if played after SM) Shep is working off of Cerberus intel and can defend their actions to Vasir.

Cerberus never tried to kill Shepard in ME1 . That was a one sided aggression on Shepard's part and they never retaliated against him either. The whole Collector Ship mission wasn't some scheme to kill him either, like TIM said it was a necessary risk that ended up providing valuable intel.

Modifié par Seboist, 11 mai 2011 - 05:31 .

[M-Sinistrari]

Seboist wrote...

There's dialogue options like "You're on my team now' and "we need each other" in both of the endings. That and in LOTSB(if played after SM) Shep is working off of Cerberus intel and can defend their actions to Vasir.

I've seen that dialog and it's nothing hinting towards an admiration or continued working together.  It's more of a headbutting over TIM's bs and Shep going freelancer.

[88mphSlayer]

Seboist wrote...

Apparently in retrospect the whole point was to build up Cerberus as a villain in ME3 despite all the signs of TIM greatly admiring Shepard and hints at continued Cerberus cooperation post SM.

In other words it was all a load of bull****.

the whole point really was to setup ME3 which basically makes ME2 optional content

[Someone With Mass]

The funny thing is that Renegade Shepard said that he was out to destroy the Collectors before the suicde mission, yet he won't destroy the base.

As for Cerberus "unexpected" turn, I really don't give a crap which it is, as long as I get a believable explenation.

[Seboist]

88mphSlayer wrote...

Seboist wrote...

Apparently in retrospect the whole point was to build up Cerberus as a villain in ME3 despite all the signs of TIM greatly admiring Shepard and hints at continued Cerberus cooperation post SM.

In other words it was all a load of bull****.

the whole point really was to setup ME3 which basically makes ME2 optional content

Sure seems like it now. The Collectors were just some small group preying upon defenseless colonies. They were hardly a big deal in the grand scheme of things.

[Seboist]

Someone With Mass wrote...

The funny thing is that Renegade Shepard said that he was out to destroy the Collectors before the suicde mission, yet he won't destroy the base.

As for Cerberus "unexpected" turn, I really don't give a crap which it is, as long as I get a believable explenation.

Shepard didn't know it was possible to capture the base and neither did TIM for that matter beforehand.

[Alpha-Centuri]

Seboist wrote...


Cerberus never tried to kill Shepard in ME1 .

Tell that to  Sole Survivor Shepard.

[Seboist]

Alpha-Centuri wrote...

Seboist wrote...


Cerberus never tried to kill Shepard in ME1 .

Tell that to  Sole Survivor Shepard.

Sole Surivor Shepard doesn't exist in my canon.

[Spaghetti_Ninja]

88mphSlayer wrote...

the whole point really was to setup ME3 which basically makes ME2 optional content

If it sets up the events in ME3 then obviously it's not optional, genius. You couldn't go from ME1 to ME3 without some huge question marks, like who the hell are these people that make up 80% of my team, why am I on trial, where is the Normandy SR1 and what the hell is this gigantic base about.

ME1, on the other hand, can be easily skipped because almost everything is explained again in the second game.

[88mphSlayer]

Spaghetti_Ninja wrote...

88mphSlayer wrote...

the whole point really was to setup ME3 which basically makes ME2 optional content

If it sets up the events in ME3 then obviously it's not optional, genius. You couldn't go from ME1 to ME3 without some huge question marks, like who the hell are these people that make up 80% of my team, why am I on trial, where is the Normandy SR1 and what the hell is this gigantic base about.

ME1, on the other hand, can be easily skipped because almost everything is explained again in the second game.

i'm sure they're going to explain everything again with ME3

[celuloid]

M-Sinistrari wrote...

Seboist wrote...

Apparently in retrospect the whole point was to build up Cerberus as a villain in ME3 despite all the signs of TIM greatly admiring Shepard and hints at continued Cerberus cooperation post SM.

I've seen that dialog and it's nothing hinting towards an admiration or continued working together.  It's more of a headbutting over TIM's bs and Shep going freelancer.

Well, before suicide mission, TIM says: "I appreciate the risk you take. Regardless of your opinion of Cerberus, of me, you are a valuable asset, to all of humanity".

So the only explanation there is for TIM's sudden change of heart in ME3 is some master plan which involves implanting Shepard to defeat Reapers.

Modifié par celuloid, 11 mai 2011 - 06:17 .

[Moiaussi]

Given we already had Shepard regardless of politics simply going along with Miranda and Jacob rather than taking over the shuttle or even so much as looking at the robotic controls himself, I think anyone expecting any meaningful explaination for the change in ME3 (other than maybe indoctrination) is being overly optimistic.