lolwut666 wrote...
To acquire Reaper technology.
He already had Reaper tech and Shepard was never necessary to acquire more.
Cerberus in ME2 What was the point?
Débuté par
Ausstig
, mai 11 2011 03:13
#76
Guest_Saphra Deden_*
Posté 12 mai 2011 - 12:00
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He already had Reaper tech and Shepard was never necessary to acquire more.
Retour en haut
#77
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Posté 12 mai 2011 - 12:03
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I am? I must have been extremely debate-mad at some point. Unblocked now. Cheers.Zulu_DFA wrote...
Yeah I know, it's hard to agree with a Zulu, but sometimes you just can't help it.
Also, [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/wondering.png[/smilie]@ you blocking me.
#78
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Posté 12 mai 2011 - 12:07
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lolwut666 wrote...
@Halo Quea
Name one person who can do what Shepard did.
All Shepard did was shoot at things from behind cover. Miranda, Jacob, Kai Leng, Kaidan Alenko, Ashley Williams, and probably thousands of other individuals could have pulled the mission off.
One of the biggest criticisms of ME2 is that Shepard isn't actually very relevant to the plot.
#79
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Posté 12 mai 2011 - 12:16
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The reason TIM went through all of the trouble to resurrect Shepard and not send someone like Kai Leng is probably very simple. He needed someone who could lead a team full of psychopaths, aliens, war criminals, and Zaeed. Kai Leng would never work with Aliens. No one is going to trust Miranda, and Jacob lacks the force of personality that Shepard has.
Also it is possible TIM wanted Shepard to gather this squad of people that are a threat to Cerberus, or not as loyal to the cause, and get them all killed. So he could send in a clean-up crew of his best and take over the base.
This is all insane ramblings.
Also it is possible TIM wanted Shepard to gather this squad of people that are a threat to Cerberus, or not as loyal to the cause, and get them all killed. So he could send in a clean-up crew of his best and take over the base.
This is all insane ramblings.
#80
Posté 12 mai 2011 - 12:19
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mrsph wrote...
The reason TIM went through all of the trouble to resurrect Shepard and not send someone like Kai Leng is probably very simple. He needed someone who could lead a team full of psychopaths, aliens, war criminals, and Zaeed. Kai Leng would never work with Aliens. No one is going to trust Miranda, and Jacob lacks the force of personality that Shepard has.
Also it is possible TIM wanted Shepard to gather this squad of people that are a threat to Cerberus, or not as loyal to the cause, and get them all killed. So he could send in a clean-up crew of his best and take over the base.
This is all insane ramblings.
According to the SM Jacob is a great combat leader. His non-xenophobic nature and ex-Alliance career would make him a decent Shepard replacement.
#81
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Posté 12 mai 2011 - 12:34
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mrsph wrote...
The reason TIM went through all of the trouble to resurrect Shepard and not send someone like Kai Leng is probably very simple. He needed someone who could lead a team full of psychopaths, aliens, war criminals, and Zaeed.
What were any of those people necessary for? Sure, they reduce the losses you suffer during the mission, but you can skip most of them or assign them to bad roles and still complete it. You can even complete the mission and die in the end.
Really the only character absolutely necessary was Mordin. However he didn't join up because of Shepard, he joined up because Cerberus helped him. So Jacob could have recruited him and ultimately completed the mission just as Shepard did. Cerberus would be spared billions of credits, a space station, and a cartoonish betrayal in ME3.
#82
Posté 12 mai 2011 - 12:37
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Saphra Deden wrote...
mrsph wrote...
The reason TIM went through all of the trouble to resurrect Shepard and not send someone like Kai Leng is probably very simple. He needed someone who could lead a team full of psychopaths, aliens, war criminals, and Zaeed.
What were any of those people necessary for? Sure, they reduce the losses you suffer during the mission, but you can skip most of them or assign them to bad roles and still complete it. You can even complete the mission and die in the end.
Really the only character absolutely necessary was Mordin. However he didn't join up because of Shepard, he joined up because Cerberus helped him. So Jacob could have recruited him and ultimately completed the mission just as Shepard did. Cerberus would be spared billions of credits, a space station, and a cartoonish betrayal in ME3.
True, the only character i can see having great issues with working with Cerberus is Tali but maybe Jacob could learn some of Shepard's legendary "talk-jutsu" and convince her. LOL
#83
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Posté 12 mai 2011 - 12:38
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Jacob, outside of the Suicide Mission, is never shown to be a stellar leader. And his dossier in LotSB just calls him an above average soldier, though I guess his stable personality could have helped.
I doubt Garrus would work with Cerberus without Shepard being there.
Seboist wrote...
True, the only character i can see having
great issues with working with Cerberus is Tali but maybe Jacob could
learn some of Shepard's legendary "talk-jutsu" and convince her. LOL
I doubt Garrus would work with Cerberus without Shepard being there.
Modifié par mrsph, 12 mai 2011 - 12:39 .
#84
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Posté 12 mai 2011 - 12:40
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Without Shepard they probably wouldn't bother picking up Tali. Garrus they'd have perhaps recruited accidentally, but it's had to say how that would have turned out. If Cerberus promised to acquire Sidonis with him he might agree to work with them. Most especially when they demonstrate the threat the Collectors are.
I can imagine TIM briefing Garrus to convince him to join the crew.
I can imagine TIM briefing Garrus to convince him to join the crew.
#85
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Posté 12 mai 2011 - 12:43
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Legion wouldn't have been recruited, neither would have Grunt. Something tells me Thane would die if Jacob was the leader of the team, Jack would either not join or be killed.
#86
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Posté 12 mai 2011 - 12:43
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Plot-wise, the point is to introduce Cerberus and IM. Other than that, it's hard to say without playing ME3, but I'm going to make a guess.
We know that TIM acquires the Reapers' tech no matter what your decision regarding the base is. If you destroy the base, he recovers it from the debris. It's the only thing of essence that comes out of your mission, aside from delaying the Reapers further: TIM holds Reapers' tech.
If you fail at Arrival, the Reapers destroy the galaxy. But if you buy humanity a few months, you've got a chance to save the galaxy. Therefore, it would be logical to assume that TIM or one of those he shared the tech with manage to do something with it in those few months, something that's going to utterly turn the tide of the war in our favour.
Pure speculation, of course.
As for the non-plot-wise, the point of ME2 is to play the game.
We know that TIM acquires the Reapers' tech no matter what your decision regarding the base is. If you destroy the base, he recovers it from the debris. It's the only thing of essence that comes out of your mission, aside from delaying the Reapers further: TIM holds Reapers' tech.
If you fail at Arrival, the Reapers destroy the galaxy. But if you buy humanity a few months, you've got a chance to save the galaxy. Therefore, it would be logical to assume that TIM or one of those he shared the tech with manage to do something with it in those few months, something that's going to utterly turn the tide of the war in our favour.
Pure speculation, of course.
As for the non-plot-wise, the point of ME2 is to play the game.
#87
Posté 12 mai 2011 - 12:43
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mrsph wrote...
Jacob, outside of the Suicide Mission, is never shown to be a stellar leader. And his dossier in LotSB just calls him an above average soldier, though I guess his stable personality could have helped.Seboist wrote...
True, the only character i can see having
great issues with working with Cerberus is Tali but maybe Jacob could
learn some of Shepard's legendary "talk-jutsu" and convince her. LOL
I doubt Garrus would work with Cerberus without Shepard being there.
Garrus would be dead without (insert Cerberus operative)'s help and when he was recruited by Shepard he was impressed and eager to work with them(to Shepard's possible dismay).
#88
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Posté 12 mai 2011 - 12:46
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Why wouldn't Jack join? She joins because she's offered intel on Cerberus, not because of any connection to Shepard. As long as that carrot is dangled in front of her she can be kept on the crew.
Grunt and Legion, I agree, wouldn't be recruited. Thane still would be and I don't see any reason he would be fated to die. Jacob might not like him, but he never starts any fights with him and in fact Thane's loyalty mission would be an excellent opportunity for them to settle their differences.
Getting back to Garrus, another way to convince him to join would be for Cerberus to offer to pay for his mother's treatments.
Thinking back on it, Garrus being on the team might be enough to convince Tali to join too.
Grunt and Legion, I agree, wouldn't be recruited. Thane still would be and I don't see any reason he would be fated to die. Jacob might not like him, but he never starts any fights with him and in fact Thane's loyalty mission would be an excellent opportunity for them to settle their differences.
Getting back to Garrus, another way to convince him to join would be for Cerberus to offer to pay for his mother's treatments.
Thinking back on it, Garrus being on the team might be enough to convince Tali to join too.
#89
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Posté 12 mai 2011 - 12:56
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Jacob might actually have worked as a replacement for Shepard now that I think about it. He was on the team for stabilizing purposes after all, and did something similar to Shepard before the game started.
#90
Posté 12 mai 2011 - 12:56
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In LotSB, the Shadow Broker said that once he kills Shepard, he would use the Normandy's IFF to get through the Omega 4 relay to collect the remains of the base s/he blew up. Once the SB said that, I realized that Bioware had given themselves an out to have a similar outcome whether or not you blew up the base.
If you kept the base, Cerberus has Reaper technology. If you blew up the base, the information from the IFF allows Cerberus to send their loyal team in to collect Reaper technology. Either way, the option is open for the ultimate face-palm: TIM gets indoctrinated! God, I hope I'm wrong.
Side-note: Even if you blew up the base, I wonder if Shepard is going to be smart enough to allow the Quarians through the Omega 4 relay to see what they can recover from the millions of years worth of alien wreckage around the base.
Edited for spelling.
If you kept the base, Cerberus has Reaper technology. If you blew up the base, the information from the IFF allows Cerberus to send their loyal team in to collect Reaper technology. Either way, the option is open for the ultimate face-palm: TIM gets indoctrinated! God, I hope I'm wrong.
Side-note: Even if you blew up the base, I wonder if Shepard is going to be smart enough to allow the Quarians through the Omega 4 relay to see what they can recover from the millions of years worth of alien wreckage around the base.
Edited for spelling.
Modifié par Abispa, 12 mai 2011 - 12:58 .
#91
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Posté 12 mai 2011 - 01:08
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mrsph wrote...
Jacob might actually have worked as a replacement for Shepard now that I think about it. He was on the team for stabilizing purposes after all, and did something similar to Shepard before the game started.
Should have just made him the star, I say. (and killed Shepard at the end of ME1 when the rubble hits him or just had him as an NPC in ME2)
#92
Posté 12 mai 2011 - 01:09
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Abispa wrote...
In LotSB, the Shadow Broker said that once he kills Shepard, he would use the Normandy's IFF to get through the Omega 4 relay to collect the remains of the base s/he blew up. Once the SB said that, I realized that Bioware had given themselves an out to have a similar outcome whether or not you blew up the base.
If you kept the base, Cerberus has Reaper technology. If you blew up the base, the information from the IFF allows Cerberus to send their loyal team in to collect Reaper technology. Either way, the option is open for the ultimate face-palm: TIM gets indoctrinated! God, I hope I'm wrong.
Side-note: Even if you blew up the base, I wonder if Shepard is going to be smart enough to allow the Quarians through the Omega 4 relay to see what they can recover from the millions of years worth of alien wreckage around the base.
Edited for spelling.
Yeah that whole Shadow Broker thing is what set off alarm bells with me over the CB decision. I knew we were going to be railroaded as soon as i saw that.
#93
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Posté 12 mai 2011 - 01:30
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Saphra Deden wrote...
Why wouldn't Jack join? She joins because she's offered intel on Cerberus, not because of any connection to Shepard. As long as that carrot is dangled in front of her she can be kept on the crew.
That's what she thinks. She rationalizes it. They all do. But the fact is, they're affected by Shepard's charisma and leadership, and they don't even realize it. They will follow Shepard into hell itself.
Grunt - Shepard is his battlemaster. He claims he's with Shepard because his enemies are strong. Right. Shepard totally dominated him and claimed him as his minion, and Grunt didn't even notice. Grunt admits it later, when he says that he has everything.
Jack - She'll tell you she's here only for Cerberus files. But she remains even after she's got those files. She even says that you could go pirate after the mission is over. She's drawn to Shepard, she wants to remain even after the mission is over, and she's trying to rationalize it by thinking that she likes the ship. And if you ask her again about the mission later, she says she realizes that it's either the Reapers or them. Can you believe that Shepard made her care about humanity?
Legion - totally in denial about his motivations. And you can corner him to admit as much when you press him about your armor.
Mordin Solus - here for atonement. At least, that's what he thinks. Look how elated he is later, when he discusses how the Collectors and the Reapers are abomination, and how at ease it makes him feel. He's relieved that there is a good reason for him to be in this, and that there is a good reason for him not to let Shepard down.
Speaking of the aliens, there's no good reason for them to follow Shepard in this mission whatsoever. There's no immediate threat to the galaxy - only to humanity.
The Council figured out that much. I suspect they believe perfectly well in what Shepard says about the Reapers. They just think it doesn't concern them. They think the Reapers will take humanity and leave them in peace. I'm surpised they're not the ones making deals with the Reapers. They should be the ones, and not Cerberus, it would make so much more sense. "Sanctus Espiritus, redeem us from our solemn hour," and all that.
Nono, wait, I won't get started on Cerberus, I'll resist...
Saphra Deden wrote...
Thinking back on it, Garrus being on the team might be enough to convince Tali to join too.
Why? I can't remember a single conversation between Tali and Garrus in ME2. Did I miss something crucial?
#94
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Posté 12 mai 2011 - 01:35
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laecraft wrote...
That's what she thinks. She rationalizes it. They all do. But the fact is, they're affected by Shepard's charisma and leadership, and they don't even realize it. They will follow Shepard into hell itself.
Uh huh.
#95
Posté 12 mai 2011 - 01:37
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Bioware screwed us Cerberus fans and renegade Shepard players.
#96
Posté 12 mai 2011 - 01:37
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From what I can remember of Tali and Garrus' conversations from both games they don't like each other all that much.
#97
Posté 12 mai 2011 - 02:08
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C'mon, of course Tali will join 'cause of Garrus. They can EAT THE SAME FOOD!
Ah, "Fleet and Flotilla" was just awesome.
Ah, "Fleet and Flotilla" was just awesome.
#98
Posté 12 mai 2011 - 02:10
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Cerberus' Reaper tech is not infinite. There's only so much they could salvage from Sovereign's corpse before it started drawing attention, and even less would actually have any practical use.
The only other source of Reaper tech Cerberus found was the derelict Reaper, and that was during the events of ME2.
By passing through the Omega 4 Relay to the Collectors' homeworld, they would find more Reaper tech than they would know what to do it.
The Illusive Man ressurected Shepard because he is the only person who was up to the task. Shepard is the galaxy's best fighter and leader, and nobody else has more experience fighting the Reapers.
Why is this so difficult to understand?
The only other source of Reaper tech Cerberus found was the derelict Reaper, and that was during the events of ME2.
By passing through the Omega 4 Relay to the Collectors' homeworld, they would find more Reaper tech than they would know what to do it.
The Illusive Man ressurected Shepard because he is the only person who was up to the task. Shepard is the galaxy's best fighter and leader, and nobody else has more experience fighting the Reapers.
Why is this so difficult to understand?
#99
Posté 12 mai 2011 - 02:37
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lolwut666 wrote...
Cerberus' Reaper tech is not infinite. There's only so much they could salvage from Sovereign's corpse before it started drawing attention, and even less would actually have any practical use.
The only other source of Reaper tech Cerberus found was the derelict Reaper, and that was during the events of ME2.
By passing through the Omega 4 Relay to the Collectors' homeworld, they would find more Reaper tech than they would know what to do it.
The Illusive Man ressurected Shepard because he is the only person who was up to the task. Shepard is the galaxy's best fighter and leader, and nobody else has more experience fighting the Reapers.
Why is this so difficult to understand?
No, that was the PLOT. What this forum is debating is why the option was given to be a Cerberus ally in ME2 when it APPEARS (from a Game Informer article and other releases) that Cerberus is going to be your adversary in ME3. Provided that a lot of people aren't misinterpreting the information, it appears that Shepard and TIM will be at odds even if the player chose to work WITH Cerberus. Thus, "What was the point?"
#100
Posté 12 mai 2011 - 02:38
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lolwut666 wrote...
Cerberus' Reaper tech is not infinite. There's only so much they could salvage from Sovereign's corpse before it started drawing attention, and even less would actually have any practical use.
The only other source of Reaper tech Cerberus found was the derelict Reaper, and that was during the events of ME2.
By passing through the Omega 4 Relay to the Collectors' homeworld, they would find more Reaper tech than they would know what to do it.
The Illusive Man ressurected Shepard because he is the only person who was up to the task. Shepard is the galaxy's best fighter and leader, and nobody else has more experience fighting the Reapers.
Why is this so difficult to understand?
not a very full proof plan when even renegade sheps can blow up the base if they want, there's really no consequences for keeping or destroying the base either way tho
either way if my renegade shep is okay giving an intact base to Cerberus, why would Cerberus have a problem with that?
Modifié par 88mphSlayer, 12 mai 2011 - 02:39 .
