142 réponses à ce sujet

[Gabey5]

no

this is my trilogy all questions should be answered

[MrGone]

Xerxes52 wrote...

Reaper Instrumentality Project?

Oh man..

If it ends up that we need 3 japanese teenagers to stop the reapers, and the reapers turn out to be divine re-interpretations of humanity, and that the whinyest of the 3 teens ends up becoming God . . .

Well that might not be so bad actually. I already went through that.

Still, it would be interesting if there was a spiritual side to the Reaper problem.

It wouldn't fit in with ANYTHING thus far in the games, but it would definitely be interesting.

[KainrycKarr]

Gotta love the way people throw the term "bad storytelling" around. If half this forum is to be believed, the only good storytelling is to write nothing. At all.

At some point, you have to realize that BW is a highly successful company KNOWN for storytelling, in a hyper-competitive industry. Let's just let them do their thing, ya know?

[KainrycKarr]

MrGone wrote...

Xerxes52 wrote...

Reaper Instrumentality Project?

Oh man..

If it ends up that we need 3 japanese teenagers to stop the reapers, and the reapers turn out to be divine re-interpretations of humanity, and that the whinyest of the 3 teens ends up becoming God . . .

Well that might not be so bad actually. I already went through that.

Still, it would be interesting if there was a spiritual side to the Reaper problem.

It wouldn't fit in with ANYTHING thus far in the games, but it would definitely be interesting.

A thousand times NO. Spritualism is the lamest thing in these kinds of series, and it's why anime got incredibly stale for me over time.

[Someone With Mass]

Mysteries are overrated.

[95Headhunter]

Admoniter wrote...

To use another example the Halo series. The Forerunners were so so so much more interesting when we really didn't know that much about them. Sure they built the rings, were losing a war with the Flood, had some relationship with humans, but other than that they were a complete mystery. And then post Halo 3 the Forerunners lost their mystery and the Precursors were the new mysterious advanced species. And now we have Cryptum, and while it is a good read and I have nothing against Greg Bear. That said now we have Interstellar team ups between races that hate eachother, humans beating the Flood by infecting their population, humans being devolved, Forerunners not liking Precursors, Precursos going god mode on, Forerunners trumping there god mode with their own weapons that destroy souls... wtf. Long story short the Forerunners (and the story) were much more interesting when they were called Forerunners because that is all we knew about them, rather than the Forerunners themselves calling themselves that out of sheer hubris.

What I'm getting at is this yes ME3 is concluding the Reaper arc, so we will obviousley learn more about our foes; But that doesn't mean you have to throw it all out there. Keep some of your cards close to your chest. Have it so we know enough about them to kick them where the sun don't shine, but keep other parts shrouded in mystery. IMO its much more enjoyable to have beaten a foe but at the same time never know their ultimate goal (this ones no longer in the running courtesy of the T-800) or origins.

This is precisely why I want some form of closure on the Reapers in ME3. So that Bioware can answer the questions, and idiots like Greg Bear don't come and **** all over the franchise.

Cryptum is a horrible mess, and I would rather Bioware just settled it then leave it hanging to the interpretation of those with no care for the source material.

Terror, I see what you're saying. I too don't want all the answers, but I think Mass Effect needs to come to a close. I'd rather it finish and stay pristine rather than become a bloated mess like the Star Wars EU. I agree the Reapers need some mystery about them, but not having answers would earn far more ire from the world outside these boards. Mass Effect is not a cerebral thriller to get you thinking. It's a space opera, and I would much rather see it become one of the few that manages a self contained story and doesn't get dragged through the mud trying to tie off 'loose ends'. 

By your argument, we should never have seen the Star Wars prequels. While I personally think that would have been better, that's not what the vast majority of people think when they see threads left hanging.

[Ieldra]

I couldn't disagree more with the OP.

If I have stopped the Reapers without understanding their motivation, then I will feel I have failed. Not in the immediate task, but in furthering my Shepard's prime agenda, and one I think should be humanity's, which should not be limited to survival, but include the search for understanding. We are living in a big universe with lots of mysteries. To be left at the end of an epic story with no more understanding than at the start, that's highly unsatisfying. It would be, perhaps, appropriate for a classic horror story, but not for an epic SF drama.

Having said that, we don't need to know everything about them. For instance, the question "who built the first Reaper" may be left unanswered. It's not so very relevant after all since they're very likely dead. But about the Reapers' motivation nothing should be left in the dark.

Edit:
I also would hate with a passion if anything "spiritual" was inserted into the story. This is an SF epic, not a fantasy. Science and technology, and the natural mysteries of the universe, the natural progression of life, possibly into shapes that appear miraculous but only to the ignorant, those should provide the puzzles and the means of their solutions. Biotics seem like magic, but they aren't. Reapers may seem like Cthulhuesque horrors completely beyond understanding, but they aren't. They are just a form of life. Incredibly advanced and powerful beyond our current comprehension maybe, but nothing in them is inherently mysterious, even less evil. To add a spiritual dimension would ruin the whole universe for me.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 11 mai 2011 - 10:41 .

[Jebel Krong]

 this thread is just so that Terror_k has something to complain about no matter what happens... 

@ Ieldra, i agree with you here.

[Jexx21]

We're going to learn about the reapers. It's only logical. We disable a reaper(s), we take the parts in, and we download all their computer databases. Guess what? We translate the words and then we have information! yaaaaaayyy.

[Skilled Seeker]

IMO it's cheap and lazy if we don't get an explanation. So I disagree with you completely OP.

[Dem_B]

I would like to hear the story from the words of an eyewitness event, from the words of the Reapers.

"Once there we were living. But no one lives forever... and our time has come. But we did not want to die and did not put up with death. And we found a way..."

So I see the beginning of the way to hell.
 

[Kusy]

I want to have a sense of closure here and I won't get that without knowing more about the very reason Shepard is running around the galaxy shooting things - the Reapers.

[PsychoWARD23]

Yes! This is what I've been wanting and hoping for.

[Grumpy young man]

I for one am interested in knowing more about them. For start, who made them and for what specific purpose and is there some sort of race opposite the "good/bad" spectrum to the Reapers themselves. I remember the description of a planet in ME1 where it is stated that a volus had a vision of ancient beings of light fighting evil machines.

[Kaiser Shepard]

I agree with Terror K and Rivercurse, although I'm sure our efforts will be in vain.

For better or for worse (nah, most definitely for worse), most of the fanbase consists of people who scream "PLOTHOLE!" at every little thing that isn't completely explained or explicitly made clear. Quite ironic actually, considering how most of the fanbase elevates itself above those of "mindless first-person shooters" and the sort.

Modifié par Kaiser Shepard, 11 mai 2011 - 12:18 .

[88mphSlayer]

really depends on whether they write it well or write it like MGS4 (lulz)

i want to know what their purpose is, hell we've been debating that for months

a twist would be nice tho, mysteries aren't as fun when they are what you expected

and it's never advisable to spill all the beans, giving a hint is all that's really required

Modifié par 88mphSlayer, 11 mai 2011 - 12:23 .

[WizenSlinky0]

It would utterly cheapen the experience and investment not to know. It really would feel like a generic shooter if at the end of the day you basically just said "Well good thing that's dead, wonder where it came from, ah well!" and walked off into the sunset with a gun slung over your shoulder.

A strong story is a crucial aspect of any Bioware game and I wholly expect them to put their writing staff to the task of fleshing out the final chapter of the reapers character.

[Evil Johnny 666]

Fiery Phoenix wrote...

Terror_K wrote...

I just think The Reapers are far cooler and menacing if they really are as complex as they claim. It just makes them seem pathetic bullies if it's so easily explained and understood what their motivations are. It reduces them as an enemy and threat in my eyes if it really is as simple as it seems on the surface after ME2.

I have no problems with learning more about them, and perhaps us thinking that we know their motivations according to our own logic and reasoning, but that's rather different from actually knowing them in their entirety.

The thing is the story has to end this time around. Any good story must achieve a satisfying state of completion and resolution at some point. Revealing the Reapers' mysteries is part of the formula, otherwise it would render the whole thing rather pointless.

But ''satisfying state of completion and resolution'' doesn't mean explaining the whole thing. I'm with TerrorK here, this is no police game thing, we don't need to know everything about the reapers. They are million years old galactic beings which MADE a certain cycle of civilization rises and descents, they NEED to be mysterious, you just can't unveil everything. Stopping them would already be a ''satisfying state of completion and resolution'', although I'd want a bit more than that. Giving hints and small bits would be enough.

WizenSlinky0 wrote...

It would utterly cheapen the experience and investment not to know. It really would feel like a generic shooter if at the end of the day you basically just said "Well good thing that's dead, wonder where it came from, ah well!" and walked off into the sunset with a gun slung over your shoulder.

A strong story is a crucial aspect of any Bioware game and I wholly expect them to put their writing staff to the task of fleshing out the final chapter of the reapers character.

Except that's not what generic shooters do. Usually they unveil everything, which is what you seem to want. Plus, ME2 is far from Bioware's best writing. In fact, I find it to be rather mediocre. Take police books, you get to know everything in the end, but that's because it's the whole purpose, unveiling the mystery. Good horror movies might explain elements, but never reveal everything, they keep the genesis secret, and that is the good writing as it gives you a sense of mystery, a sense of scale that unveiling everything would cheapen the experience. You'd be like: ''ah, that's it?'' Because the mystery gives always give you the impression that it's something truly exceptional, while it can never reach that level in reality if you explain everything. Mass Effect is about a sci-fi universe, about its mysteries and how we seem to be part of an never ending cycle. It's not just about the mystery itself, and it's the mystery that gives much of the game's appeal as far as the story goes in the first place. Explain everything, and it will not live up to the hype, to the mystery or what you're imagination felt about it. It's never as pretty when you know everything.

Modifié par Evil Johnny 666, 11 mai 2011 - 03:23 .

[Evil Johnny 666]

Ieldra2 wrote...

I couldn't disagree more with the OP.

If I have stopped the Reapers without understanding their motivation, then I will feel I have failed. Not in the immediate task, but in furthering my Shepard's prime agenda, and one I think should be humanity's, which should not be limited to survival, but include the search for understanding. We are living in a big universe with lots of mysteries. To be left at the end of an epic story with no more understanding than at the start, that's highly unsatisfying. It would be, perhaps, appropriate for a classic horror story, but not for an epic SF drama.

Except YOUR Shepard's prime agenda may not be Shepard's prime agenda. Shepard has always been a semi-defined character, like you choose his alignment rather than who he truly is. You have several choices for his backgrounds, but they are all well-detailed ones which you did not come up with. Sure you can come up with your prime agenda, but that wouldn't be the game's fault for not doing something which it had no obligation whatsoever to do.

Jebel Krong wrote...

 this thread is just so that Terror_k has something to complain about no matter what happens... [smilie]http://social.bioware.com/images/forum/emoticons/pinched.png[/smilie]

You're right, formulating yourself an opinion and not conforming to the masses, or having standards that are different than others is just so overrated.

Modifié par Evil Johnny 666, 11 mai 2011 - 03:30 .

[theSteeeeeels]

Terror_K wrote...

That's what Case Hudson said on his Twitter, and my instant reaction was "NOOOOO!!!"

Seriously, this is stupid, IMO. It's one thing to think we know what The Reapers are all about, but their true motivation should remain a mystery. According to Sovereign it was all supposed to be "beyond our comprehension and understanding" after all. If we just find out what their true motives are and it's easy for us to understand, then that's just clearly not the case at all, and it just rapes The Reapers of all mystery and menace, IMO. Like the best horror movies tend to be ones that don't show the monster/horror/evil/whatever, The Reapers are best left with something largely still unknown about them.

I understand wanting to tie up all the major plotlines in the final chapter, but there's such a thing as tying up too many loose ends, and revealing too much. Also, if too much is explained and revealed, where will the ME universe go after this? If every question has been answered, even the stuff that doesn't tie directly into the main plot, what is there left?

lmao what a ******! mass effect isnt a horror film. we'l have three games all about the reapers and you dont want any answers? wise up moron

[the_one_54321]

88mphSlayer wrote...
and it's never advisable to spill all the beans, giving a hint is all that's really required

No way. I want to know everything. Every. Last. Little. Detail. If I envest all this time into playing a game, not giving me every single answer I want will only accomplish making me very angry.

[Evil Johnny 666]

theSteeeeeels wrote...
lmao what a ******! mass effect isnt a horror film. we'l have three games all about the reapers and you dont want any answers? wise up moron

Yeah, because ME2 was sooo much about the Reapers you realized it only halfway through the game. Even then, more often than not you do nothing that has to do with reapers when running after the Collectors, finding squad mates or playing their errand boy. Sure, it is ''about Reapers'', but the game as a whole isn't really about the Reapers, if that's understandable.

And please, acting like an **** doesn't make you more right, only less credible if anything. Mass Effect is not an horror game, but if you were actually intelligent enough to read properly his post, you'd know that's not what it meant and it had some other meaning to it. But then I guess not all is obvious to people and they can't read between the lines. I thought they taught you this at school?

the_one_54321 wrote...

88mphSlayer wrote...
and it's never advisable to spill all the beans, giving a hint is all that's really required

No way. I want to know everything. Every. Last. Little. Detail. If I envest all this time into playing a game, not giving me every single answer I want will only accomplish making me very angry. 

Because you only play a game for its outcome? It IS a thing to look forward, but wanting to know everything no matter what is a bit naive, you'd have to know first if it's best to the story and overall experience to know everything. I have a leaning towards not knowing everything, but admitedly we'll only truly know it when the game we'll complete the game.

Modifié par Evil Johnny 666, 11 mai 2011 - 03:41 .

[Elvis_Mazur]

Well, just because Sovereign said this and that, doesn't mean he said the truth. There is always such possibility.

And, showing all the secrets doesn't necessarily mean that they are going to ruin the whole series, because depending on how they deal with that, it can be amazing revealings.

Plus, there is always the chance of existing bigger threats than the Reapers. We'll have to wait and see.

[theSteeeeeels]

Evil Johnny 666 wrote...

Yeah, because ME2 was sooo much about the Reapers you realized it only halfway through the game. Even then, more often than not you do nothing that has to do with reapers when running after the Collectors, finding squad mates or playing their errand boy. Sure, it is ''about Reapers'', but the game as a whole isn't really about the Reapers, if that's understandable.

And please, acting like an **** doesn't make you more right, only less credible if anything. Mass Effect is not an horror game, but if you were actually intelligent enough to read properly his post, you'd know that's not what it meant and it had some other meaning to it. But then I guess not all is obvious to people and they can't read between the lines. I thought they taught you this at school?

yes, me2 is still about the reapers. the trilogy is ABOUT the reapers. if you dont want answers about what 3 games have been made around then i dont know what to say

yea they do teach you that actually, curious that you have to ask, shouldnt you know yourself..... ?

[Fiery Phoenix]

Evil Johnny 666 wrote...

But ''satisfying state of completion and resolution'' doesn't mean explaining the whole thing. I'm with TerrorK here, this is no police game thing, we don't need to know everything about the reapers. They are million years old galactic beings which MADE a certain cycle of civilization rises and descents, they NEED to be mysterious, you just can't unveil everything. Stopping them would already be a ''satisfying state of completion and resolution'', although I'd want a bit more than that. Giving hints and small bits would be enough.

Either way, if BioWare plans to completely end the Reaper subplot in ME3, you can bet they will reveal everything about the Reapers -- otherwise not; they might leave part of the mystery for a spinoff, which I personally don't see happening.