24 réponses à ce sujet

[LobselVith8]

It's mentioned that Hawke is descended from Parthalan, and we have two Parthalans mentioned: Magister Parthalan, who left Tevinter during the Exalted March, and the later Parthalan (who is likely descended from the Magister)who aided Calenhad to form Ferelden from warring teyrnirs, disappearing when the Chantry hunted him down. Fenris indicates that Danarius has influence and power in the Imperium. Hawke's reputation seems to have carried all the way to Tevinter, based on the letter Feynriel writes to him if he leaves for the Imperium. Is it possible that Danarius could restore Hawke's holdings in the Imperium because he's (possibly) descended from Magister Parthalan?

[KnightofPhoenix]

Other than for making Hawke an ally (puppet) in the senate, I don't see why Danarius would waste his time with that pile of fail.

[LobselVith8]

@KOP, Danarius is a Senator, and Hawke is becoming a known figure even in the Imperium. He has the potential to kill the Arishok (which will likely please the anti-Qunari crowd of Tevinter) and he is seen as spreading subversion against the Chantry, which may please the Imperial Chantry (who celebrated the death of the White Divine when the Great Schism happened). Hawke is also a friend of a very powerful mage who can end up in Tevinter - Feynriel. It could be good for Danarius' popularity to bring the apostate Champion (descended from a Magister and the mage who cofounded Ferelden, no less) who bested the Qunari, the Arishok, and the Andrastian Chantry to the Imperium.

As for failure, I have to agree that the story Varric told had Hawke extremely reactive, but even Cullen and Elthina do nothing if Hawke tells them about Anders, so I have to assume the Band of Three promotes sloth among all the denizens of Kirkwall. I'm certain that once Hawke steps out of the Hellmouth, he will finally be capable of being proactive.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Yes, Hawke would be a useful puppet and tool for both Danarius personally and the Tevinter Imperium as a whole, which is what I said. Other than that, I do not see why Danarius would care.

[TEWR]

it doesn't even have to be Danarius. It could be any powerful Magister in the Imperium. Maybe even Feynriel's teacher.

[Big I]

I haven't read the codex entry, but if the Exalted March was THE Exalted March (by Andraste) that's over 900 years ago. After 900 years without even being Tevinter, I doubt Hawke has much of a claim to anything.

[Mykel54]

Parthalan is no longer hawke ancestor and Fereldan, now he is simply a tevinter magister. The fluff about the staff changed.

[Augustei]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Yes, Hawke would be a useful puppet and tool for both Danarius personally and the Tevinter Imperium as a whole, which is what I said. Other than that, I do not see why Danarius would care.

Yeah I think this is the most likely scenario. It would be extremely difficult to prove Hawke is Parlathans descendent anyway.. I dont think even Hawke really knows it. What could happen though is, as a political move on Danarius's part he could make Hawke his apprentice or something since it will increase his holdings influance on the nation.. I mean heck he originally planned to give an apprenticeship to an elven slave, so this is not really any less likely I wouldn't think. At the same time of doing this, he could harbor hawke within the Imperium to protect him from the Templars and / or chantry / mages. Having the Champion of Kirkwall on side would prove beneficial in gaining the trust of the common folk as the Imperium moves its forces south into the free marches in the coming war

But Danarius or the Archon I doubt would do anything without a reason they would benefit from it, So if it were proven that Hawke was a descendent of Parlathan the Magisters wouldn't want him there as it means political competition

Modifié par XxDeonxX, 11 mai 2011 - 01:18 .

[TEWR]

Mykel54 wrote...

Parthalan is no longer hawke ancestor and Fereldan, now he is simply a tevinter magister. The fluff about the staff changed.

source of this please?

[LobselVith8]

@KOP, I'm still holding out the hope that post-Kirkwall Hawke will be capable of being proactive.

@Mykel54, why couldn't there be two Parthalans? If King Alistair named his daughter Wynne, there would be two Wynnes. If Wynne's son found out about his mother and named his daughter Wynne, there would be two Wynnes. I don't see why Magister Parthalan couldn't have progeny and end up having a descendent named after him who would be proactive in aiding Calenhad in the formation of Ferelden.

[Augustei]

The Ethereal Writer Redux wrote...

Mykel54 wrote...

Parthalan is no longer hawke ancestor and Fereldan, now he is simply a tevinter magister. The fluff about the staff changed.

source of this please?

I think he is referring to the in-game codex entry for the Staff of Parlathan

[Mykel54]

http://dragonage.bio...info/parthalan/

Magic has always run strongly within the Hawke bloodline. The tales
passed down from one generation to the next tell of an ancestor named
Parthalan, a mage who long ago helped to unite Ferelden under the rule
of King Calenhad. Parthalan eventually vanished into legend, fleeing the
persecution of the Chantry, but his legacy remains in the hands of his
family - along with his hope that one day, mages would achieve the
freedom that King Calenhad intended to bring to all men.

This description was the one used before the game was released, but when the game went live it was replaced by the codex entry you mentioned about the Tevinter mage. We have to judge the game only using in-game material, as such, there is no information whatsoever in the game that suggest that this tevinter mage was an ancestor of hawke. The only piece of background that suggest so has been removed from the game and replaced with something else. Also, i may add that the new staff released in the dlc (malcom´s honor), suggest an alternative way to bring in the mage heirloom of the hawke family, making the pre-release parthalan fluff even less canon.

[Master Shiori]

XxDeonxX wrote...


I think he is referring to the in-game codex entry for the Staff of Parlathan

Indeed. 

Due to change in codex entry on Staff of Parthalan, it seems Parthalan was rectonned from being Hawke's ancestor into some Tevinter Magister with no apparent ties to the Hawke family.

Modifié par Master Shiori, 11 mai 2011 - 04:59 .

[LobselVith8]

I don't see why it's impossible for there to have been a Parthalan who aided King Calenhad when it's canon that the Circle of Magi sided with him for "mysterious reasons" and we're given a very plausible explanation with Parthalan aiding Calenhad for a nation where mages would be treated as equals. If the staff originated from a more distant ancestor who was from Tevinter, why does that mean there couldn't have been a later Parthalan who aided Calenhad?

[TEWR]

Lob's idea makes sense. There have been numerous centuries since Magister Parthalan's departure from Tevinter to the Free Marches and the time when Calenhad united Ferelden. It's within the realm of reason that Magister Parthalan had a descendant who was also named Parthalan as a way to remember him.

[Augustei]

But is Parlathan Immortal? Are his methods Supernatural?

Anyone who gets that reference gets a whole jar of cookies

[TEWR]

I have this feeling I should get that reference....

[LobselVith8]

Ra's Al Ghul, of the Lazarus Pit fame.

[KnightofPhoenix]

A Ra's Al Ghul like Magister would be awesome.

[Augustei]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Ra's Al Ghul, of the Lazarus Pit fame.

*Clap* Impressive. as Ras's Alias would say =D You ok with choc-chip?

[Augustei]

Mykel54 wrote...

Parthalan is no longer hawke ancestor and Fereldan, now he is simply a tevinter magister. The fluff about the staff changed.

Surely, a man who spends his nights scrambling over the rooftops of Kirkwall wouldn't begrudge me dual identities?

[LobselVith8]

I am indeed ok with choc-chip.

It is the nector of the gods. I believe Dumat said as much when he was teaching blood magic to the Magister of the Imperium.

[Master Shiori]

LobselVith8 wrote...

I don't see why it's impossible for there to have been a Parthalan who aided King Calenhad when it's canon that the Circle of Magi sided with him for "mysterious reasons" and we're given a very plausible explanation with Parthalan aiding Calenhad for a nation where mages would be treated as equals. If the staff originated from a more distant ancestor who was from Tevinter, why does that mean there couldn't have been a later Parthalan who aided Calenhad?

No reason, other than the fact that the lore for the staff got reconned. I mean, if you want feel free to entertain the idea about there being 2 Parthalans. 

We're just pointing out that the lore changed. Staff of Parthalan is now the staff of a former Tevinter Magister who has no relations to the Hawke family. The true family staff is the one you get from item pack DLC; a staff crafted my Malcom Hawke himself.

As far as ingame lore is concerned was no Parthalan aiding King Calenhad anymore, since he's no longer mentioned anywhere in the codex.

[LobselVith8]

Master Shiori, did the lore change, or is this simply your theory on what happened? If you have a quote from David Gaider or another developer who worked on Dragon Age 2, feel free to provide it, because I'm genuinely curious.

[Master Shiori]

LobselVith8 wrote...

Master Shiori, did the lore change, or is this simply your theory on what happened? If you have a quote from David Gaider or another developer who worked on Dragon Age 2, feel free to provide it, because I'm genuinely curious.

It's the lore for the staff as presented in the ingame codex, so it obviously changed from the description on DA2 website. Considering that the codex and information contained within were written by Mary Kirby, and had to be approved by David Gaider, I'd say it's accurate.

There is no longer any mention of Parthalan aiding KIng Calenhad or being related to Hawke family. In fact, all we know, from the codex entry itself, is that Parthalan was a Tevinter Magister who disappeared while travelling to Kirkwall.

My theory, if you care to hear it, is that the change happened because the writers wanted to make Hawke's father, Malcom, the famous apostate who Hawke and Bethany looked up to. At least that's the impression I got after reading the entries for mage items DLC which describe Malcom's adventures and how he met and later married Leandra Amell.

If you're really interested in finding out why the lore changed, I'd suggest dropping a line to Mary Kirby or David Gaider and asking them.
 

Modifié par Master Shiori, 11 mai 2011 - 09:21 .