90 réponses à ce sujet

[Dariuszp]

Long long time ago, there was a game called Gothic. In this game, you got plenty of NPC around player that
- go hunting
- working in day
- sleeping at night
They move around, talk with each other and stuff. When i see Gothic for the first time after they release it - i was thinking:
- great game, feel so alive. Probably one of the best cRPG i ever played.

And gues what. It's still one of the best.

Bioware, I'm just tired of the world you created in your games. Static npc that don't move, dont do anything. You present us part of a town or station but THERE IS NOTHING THERE!. Everything is dead, boring, always the same.

In 2007 we got first Witcher. In this game, NPC are:
- working in day
- sleeping at night
- talking and moving around
- they hide when it's raning, they run and scream when someone is attacked, they sit in campfire and stuff

Now in 2011 we got next Witcher. Just look yourself:
www.youtube.com/watch

I don't know about anyone else but I WANT SOMETHING LIKE THIS in your games.

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Next topic - combat animation.

Only one thing to ask. Please, get back team that made KOTOR. Please,  ask them to design combat animation for you. Fights when oponents clash their swords with each other is SO COOOOOL. I've seen it first and last time in KOTOR series. I read that the same thing will be in Star Wars: The Old Republic. Game that i wait for so long.
Add this to your games along with the living world we saw in Gothic or Witcher.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

It's no 2000. It's 2011. Do better. You got money, you got experience. Make us best RPG ever please.

[PaulSX]

I am not so into those 'Living world' stuff, the witcher is a decent game but what really draws me into it is the plot twists in it. and still I dont like gothic series and also Risen, their stories are so plain. what I loved about BioWare's games is party-based combat, interaction between characters, plot and decent writing. as long as they delivered those elements, I will be satisfied. No need to create world to simulate real life, that's not bioware's style.

[Dave of Canada]

Commoner 2: How delightful!
Commoner 1: Welcome!
Commoner 2: What's new with you?
Commoner 1: I saw some mudcrabs by the water recently. I steered clear of them.
Commoner 2: Terrible creatures.
Commoner 2: Take care.
*Commoner 1 leaves*

[Dubya75]

BioWare developed a game engine with such severe limitations that there can only be a limited number of moving elements on screen at any given time. This is why the game appears to lifeless and NPCs don't do anything.
Dragon Age would be a much better game if they used a better engine and not their own crappy engine.

[Phaedros]

Dubya75 wrote...

BioWare developed a game engine with such severe limitations that there can only be a limited number of moving elements on screen at any given time. This is why the game appears to lifeless and NPCs don't do anything.
Dragon Age would be a much better game if they used a better engine and not their own crappy engine.

The Witcher uses Bioware's Aurora engine..

[Chromie]

Phaedros wrote...

Dubya75 wrote...

BioWare developed a game engine with such severe limitations that there can only be a limited number of moving elements on screen at any given time. This is why the game appears to lifeless and NPCs don't do anything.
Dragon Age would be a much better game if they used a better engine and not their own crappy engine.

The Witcher uses Bioware's Aurora engine..

The Witcher 2 uses a brand new engine created by CDProjekt and takes advantage of PC hardware.

@suntzuxi Were'nt any plots twists at all in DA:O or DA2 infact I don't even remember a plot twist since Kotor when you find out your Revan.

Witcher 2 looks like it has everything DA2 should have had.

Modifié par Ringo12, 11 mai 2011 - 08:38 .

[Dariuszp]

@suntzuxi, when you walk around a town, you want to look and feel like a town. That point in roleplay in empty, dead and very static world ?

I know that The Witcher have good and bad sides but still, when they design town or vilage - it feel like it. And I could bow my head to Bioware if they create a town like in Assasins Creen where you got ACTUAL CROWD. That was something! (forget that AC is boring but the town was splendid). Same thing for Gothic.

In DA even after 10 years NPC are in the same place. Everything look the same. Almost no one move and some idiot in in one building still repeat same sentence over and over again.

Bioware should also learn something else from CD Project RED. When people complain they release Enchanted Edition where:
- They fix most of the bugs
- They add variety of NPC, Guards etc (before you got town with army of clones :-D)
- They add new content (something like today DLC but with whole new story and stuff, not some stupid armor for 5$)
- they optimizes engine and reduce loading time by 80% (Witcher 2 have no loading screens at all, except chapters - like when you move to another part of the world)
and they do so much more...
Also they release it for free to download for oryginal Witcher owners. And they put boxed version of this along with toolkit.

But forget about Dragon Age II for a moment. I don't care about this game anymore. It's sux and i just throw it into bottom of my desk. I just want new games better. See some improvements.


_______________________________

@Ringo12, Witcher 2 yes but part one have ALL this things i mentioned AND they used for this game Aurora Engine from Bioware. Same engine that Neverwinter Nights were on. Just see the diference.
And they design new engine because that limitation. But still they make awsome workd with the old one when they create first Witcher.

Modifié par Dariuszp, 11 mai 2011 - 09:03 .

[Chromie]

Dariuszp wrote...

@Ringo12, Witcher 2 yes but part one have ALL this things i mentioned AND they used for this game Aurora Engine from Bioware. Same engine that Neverwinter Nights were on. Just see the diference.
And they design new engine because that limitation. But still they make awsome workd with the old one when they create first Witcher.

Yes yes I know I was responding to someone else >.>

Bought two copies of Witcher 2 myself

[Foolsfolly]

I'm currently replaying New Vegas. I do love environments that feel alive. That said, I hate it when stores are only open at certain times. I get that the NPC's sleep and have these routines and all...but I hate coming into town, half-dead, loaded with loot I need to pawn off, and now I have to click wait and wait a minute or so before I can hit a load zone to a merchant.

NPCs should have a life, and towns should feel alive and populated at this point in time. But I'm a firm believer that Merchants should be open all the time.

If you need a role-playing reason for it, shop keeps can have day and night shifts.

[Lumikki]

mm... so much advertising other games. How ever, I agree one of the problem in Biowares games has been they world is so statics. I do like how npcs at least move in DA2, but you are right. It's still very static. Many npcs stay in same spot year after year and do nothing, never even moved at all.

[Dariuszp]

24/7 work ? yeah. Bioware shopkeepers need a rise then

@Lumikk it's more like I compare Two different titles than advert Witcher. That game has problem too. 3 armors (and probably you will run 90% of them game with your first one), few swords, additional weapons like axe, dagger etc were useless etc. But world as whole was created very nice. AND on Bioware engine. This is main reason why i talk about Witcher. It was created on BioWare engine.

Then again you got cottor with combat animation. Noone here refere to that but still - don't tell me that it was not nice. It was great. Add few more movement and options to block atacks from few oponents. I like it in KOTOR.

And the wather in Witcher. You got storm, rain or something - NPC hide! under roof. That was something! :-)

Get that things together and create new RPG like noone ever done before.

Modifié par Dariuszp, 11 mai 2011 - 09:25 .

[Corto81]

Dariuszp wrote...
Now in 2011 we got next Witcher. Just look yourself:
www.youtube.com/watch

I don't know about anyone else but I WANT SOMETHING LIKE THIS in your games.

Just something I said in another thread regarding the linked video.

I don't KNOW what The Witcher 2 will play like or how good the plot will be.
I don't KNOW if there'll be meaningful choices or interesting characters.

I do KNOW, just from that video, that 10 billions of metric tons of passion were put into that game.

And regardless if the game is good or bad, whether I love it or hate it, I can respect the effort the devs put in and the attention to detail shows me how much they cared for it.

...

I saw the same in Origins. It was a game done with passion.
BW set out to make a great game and make money in the process.

DAII?
It feels like BW set out to make money. And put in gameplay etc. so people would buy something.
Everything about that game feels cold, detached and done as an afterthought.

[Dariuszp]

@Corto81, i agree with everything you just said. Witcher can be bad, full of bugs, short and boring slasher but all this details force me to say one thing - WOOOOOOOOOOW!.
I just love to see things like this in Bioware games.

DA II is on the engine that DA:O was but game didn't improve in any aspect in my humble opinion. I saw in KOTOR things like combat animation and few other stuff i don't see in their new games.

Then again you got guys from Bethesda Softworks with their Elder Scroll. You got CD Project Red with Witcher and few other teams that make their NEXT GAME BETTER.

Bioware right now working in other direction. They make it worst in some aspect and didn't improve at all in other.

Until DA:O i just preorder their games blindly because i knew that if game is from BioWare - it must be good. But years past, other make better RPG. Other make better actions game (ME2 here) and Bioware lost something. Now after i saw ME2 i just shut up and thing - hey, ME is action game with rpg elements - who cares. Then i saw DA II and i think that was disaster.

Now i decide not to preorder games from BW. I'm waiting for few reviews. I'm waiting for few screenshoots, gameplay on YT, demo etc. And after that i could buy their next game. I bought DA II and ME2 only because those games was for something like 20$ on holiday (DA II with ME2 included for free).

[Dariuszp]

I must disagree. PT or BG didn't have living world. In PT it was mostly background noise that make world more alive. Don't know about BG2 because I played it very long ago. I played PT less than one year ago - that's why i remember.
KOTOR have the same thing like DA II or DAO. Almost nothing move there. And i know what I'm saying because I played KOTOR 1 and 2 few times. Probably most alive place in KOTOR was Mandalorian camp (and it still sux).

I don't talk here about the Witcher but about fighting animation from KOTOR and more lively world like in Witcher or Gothic series.

We already know it's not because Aurora engine or whatever they are using now because CD Project RED show that loot of things is possible with that engine. And I expect from BW that their new engine is even better. Then what's the problem ?

[Brockololly]

BioWare has never been able to do convincing cities post BG2 and Athkatla. Its been the same issues of them always feeling static and flat and yet BioWare opts to make DA2 almost exclusively set in one city for the entire game.

And as for KOTOR-esque combat, yes, I'd love to see DA with more KOTOR like combat where you maybe have fewer trash mob waves on screen at once but can have it such that the animations can actually interact with combatants and even be able to queue up commands.

Not that any of that will happen, as DA3 will likely be even more of a twitch based hack and slash, but there you go.

Modifié par Brockololly, 11 mai 2011 - 02:23 .

[Gabey5]

the looked super dull

[Rawgrim]

The Kotor combat was rather poor. A character stood 2 feet away from another, and shot him 25 times in the face, with a laser rifle, untill the enemy fell over. It was lame as hell.

[Dariuszp]

simfamSP wrote...

A living world goes far beyond the amount of people in it. What made PS:T and BG a living breathing world was how rich the characters were.

You dont need to tell me.

Let's take Assassin's Creed for example. A brilliant game (I love it) and the cities are AMAZING. It is filled to the breach with NPC activity. But out of the hundreds there are what? 9-10 npcs that are remotley interesting (aside from the main characters.)

In AC you got plenty of NPC but that's not the point. Point is - bioware has almost NONE. It's ok if you are in some stupid dungeon but hey - if your in CITY and they spend 2 years to create CITY and then explain that the city is FULL OF REFUGES then i'm asking - how the hell is so empty ?

PS:T had Fell, the fallen Darius, it had a Quinn, Reek-Wind, The Stone/man warrior, the Wizard in love with candy at the Festhall...

Witcher has plenty of interesting NPC. So is Gothic and others. Tell me... is there ANY NPC you remember from Dragon Age 2 ? Because for example I still remember few from Gothic, Witcher, plenty from Fallout, few from Arcanum, from KOTOR etc. I really cannot recall any interesting person in Kirkwall. And i finished this game not so long ago.

If your asking Bioware to do something that will alienate the way they do things. Then I think it's a very unfair suggestion. The Witcher is a great RPG, I love it to bits. But it's not a BIOWARE game. All Bioware games have been similar to eachother. Apart from ME and JE the rest have had the same gameplay mechanics.

Disagree. Bioware games change a loot since the beginning. I know because I played them all. And really played ALL. From my point of view, things has change from good to worst or didn't change at all. Except graphic but compare to other modern games - not so good also.
Still if DA II shows direction where BW games are goint then they degenrate.

But I know where your coming from, but I think what you *want* is a AC kind of enviorment, or a Bethesda City... I'm sorry, but that can't happen in Bioware games, unless they want to the ditch further than they did in DA2.

Nope. I want few more NPC + some movement + day/night cycle. I dont even expect reaction on the rain or killing just next to them. 

I just want BW to improve their games because as I say - some aspects didn't change and few of them got worst. And they have it all. The cities, combat animation, dialogues etc. Now what ?

[Zanallen]

First off, please show me a game with a living world that also has a large group of companions and party based combat.

[Rawgrim]

Zanallen wrote...

First off, please show me a game with a living world that also has a large group of companions and party based combat.

Ultima 5 Lazarus, and the Ultima 6 remake.

[RinpocheSchnozberry]

They shouldn't bother. I've actually been outside guys, and no video game is going to recreate that.