298 réponses à ce sujet

[the_one_54321]

Sylvius the Mad wrote...
Agreed, but not relevant.  What matters if the degree of roleplaying that is possible is a game, as these are roleplaying games.

My argument against multiplayer is far weaker than my argument against a voiced protagonist, or in favour of full-party control.  My argument against multiplayer is largely one of personal preference.

Though again I maintain that if people want to play a multiplayer roleplaying game, there are tabletop games for that.  The primary benefit of a CRPG is that other people aren't required.

And here is where you are coming up against a wall. The primary benefit of a CRPG over tabletop is that other people aren't required when you are the one playing the game. For others, the primary benefit is entirely different. I like roleplaying with other people and vastly prefered playerworlds in NWN to many single player RPGs. For me, and many others, the primary benefit of CRPGs over tabletop is that there are actual visuals and sounds to experience while playing.

And for other people there are other primary benefits.

And for other kinds of RPGs there are other primary benefits for all those same people.

When it comes to enjoyment of a game, genre distinction is what is actually irrelivant. Different people enjoy what they enjoy. Adding multiplayer only creates a different level on which to enjoy or not enjoy the game. Or, it would if any company was capable of including multiplayer without it affecting the rest of the game. Which they can't. Usually on purpose, even.

[Sylvius the Mad]

the_one_54321 wrote...

When it comes to enjoyment of a game, genre distinction is what is actually irrelivant. Different people enjoy what they enjoy. Adding multiplayer only creates a different level on which to enjoy or not enjoy the game. Or, it would if any company was capable of including multiplayer without it affecting the rest of the game. Which they can't. Usually on purpose, even.

True.  That said, BioWare's only MP-centric game, NWN, I really enjoyed it.  And I only ever played the single-player component.  I think NWN was a really good single-player game.  Many of the features I ask for now were present in NWN.

[the_one_54321]

I'd be trilled if we got a recreation of NWN multiplayer in any game. But I don't believe it's ever actually going to happen.

[Sylvius the Mad]

I'd be thrilled if we got a recreation of NWN singleplayer in any game.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Alistairlover94 wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

I'd be thrilled if we got a recreation of NWN singleplayer in any game.

NWN's official campaign? Good God, no!

I'm talking about the NWN gameplay.  NWN was a great game, regardless of the specific campaigns.

If we could have NWN's core gameplay, but add in a party with full tactical control like DAO, and then an unstructured plot like BG (or DA2's Act I), that would be just about the best game ever.

[the_one_54321]

Alistairlover94 wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

I'd be thrilled if we got a recreation of NWN singleplayer in any game.

NWN's official campaign? Good God, no!

You know, the Aribeth fan club made the Swoopers look soft spoken and reserved.

Modifié par the_one_54321, 17 mai 2011 - 08:45 .

[Sylvius the Mad]

For the record, I do really like the NWN OC. I don't understand why people don't.

[Tsuga C]

That "rockpapershotgun" link...really sums it up well. Kudos for making it part of your signiture.

[MistySun]

Alistairlover94 wrote...

Tsuga C wrote...

That "rockpapershotgun" link...really sums it up well. Kudos for making it part of your signiture.

That it does. The first one is about how they should've stuck to what worked in Origins, and not pull the complete 180 that they did.

Let's hope Bioware takes note and really makes DA3 the game DA2 should of been. 

[Sylvius the Mad]

Alistairlover94 wrote...

The story was really bad, the characters were flat(compared to BG characters), it was really predictable. It came out after BG2, that's probably why I don't have fond memories of it.

That might be a useful gauge.

I liked the NWN OC because it allowed a fair amount of roleplaying freedom and it offered an interesting setting to explore.  Plus I loved the combat.

That's really all I want from a CRPG.  Everything beyond that is just garnish, so I'm not generally willing to give up any of the meat to get it.

[Nighteye2]

MistySun wrote...

So just what are game companies going to do in the future? Will multiplayer really be the death of single player games like DA:O, DA2, and we hope DA3.


Quote: Ubisoft introduced multiplayer for the first time in its Assassin's Creed franchise; Valve launched co-op in Portal 2; Warner Brothers hinted at including multiplayer in future Batman games; and Sony has begun hiring programmers for what could be a multiplayer God of War game. Unquote

Read full story here

There are still many people who really like single player games - and always will be, I expect. I generally don't want other players ruining my experience of the story in a game. Out of the 100+ games I've bought over the years, only 1 game I bought for the multiplayer - all the others I bought for the single player experience.

It would be better, for me, if companies stopped wasting resources on multiplayer.

[Sylvius the Mad]

Nighteye2 wrote...

There are still many people who really like single player games - and always will be, I expect. I generally don't want other players ruining my experience of the story in a game. Out of the 100+ games I've bought over the years, only 1 game I bought for the multiplayer - all the others I bought for the single player experience.

It would be better, for me, if companies stopped wasting resources on multiplayer.

When I play MMORPGs, I play them for the single-player experience (which usually ends badly, I'll grant).

[bEVEsthda]

Nighteye2 wrote...

MistySun wrote...

So just what are game companies going to do in the future? Will multiplayer really be the death of single player games like DA:O, DA2, and we hope DA3.


Quote: Ubisoft introduced multiplayer for the first time in its Assassin's Creed franchise; Valve launched co-op in Portal 2; Warner Brothers hinted at including multiplayer in future Batman games; and Sony has begun hiring programmers for what could be a multiplayer God of War game. Unquote

Read full story here

There are still many people who really like single player games - and always will be, I expect. I generally don't want other players ruining my experience of the story in a game. Out of the 100+ games I've bought over the years, only 1 game I bought for the multiplayer - all the others I bought for the single player experience.

It would be better, for me, if companies stopped wasting resources on multiplayer.

Well, as I have already 'proven'  in an earlier post, the total number of multiplayer gamers throughout the whole world, is only 'bout 12 million. Another thing about multiplayer-gamers, apart from that they're so few, is that they spend an awful lot of time exclusively on just one or two games. So if the entire industry goes multiplayer with everything, it's not going to be the end of singleplayer games.
It's just going to be the end of our current game publishers, as they commit *Atari*,  by business model, and new ones will take over.   All will be well.  ...in the end.

...It's going to be a few good gaming years for illiterate, abuse screaming, raging 14y olds, though, skipping school, ruining their futures.


P.S. Forgot one other thing about multiplayer gamers: They haven't got much money.

Modifié par bEVEsthda, 18 mai 2011 - 08:44 .

[Sylvius the Mad]

BioWare had some interesting statistics about how many NWN players ever played multiplayer, and it was a shockingly low number (under 10%).

Modifié par Sylvius the Mad, 18 mai 2011 - 08:22 .

[maxernst]

Alistairlover94 wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

Alistairlover94 wrote...

Sylvius the Mad wrote...

I'd be thrilled if we got a recreation of NWN singleplayer in any game.

NWN's official campaign? Good God, no!

I'm talking about the NWN gameplay.  NWN was a great game, regardless of the specific campaigns.

If we could have NWN's core gameplay, but add in a party with full tactical control like DAO, and then an unstructured plot like BG (or DA2's Act I), that would be just about the best game ever.

You meant gameplay. Then I agree., the core gameplay should be more like NWN.

It's a long, long time since I've played NWN.  What differentiated its core gameplay from the Infinity Engine games other than controlling only one character and being able to rotate the camera?

[the_one_54321]

Infinity engine simulates D&D Advanced, and the Aurora engine simulates D&D 3.5.

[Sylvius the Mad]

maxernst wrote...

It's a long, long time since I've played NWN.  What differentiated its core gameplay from the Infinity Engine games other than controlling only one character and being able to rotate the camera?

The UI, and the inventory were significantly different.

Otherwise, they were quite similar in that regard.

Also, I just liked the NWN environments more. I found the 3D environments easier to use than BG's 2D environments.

[Sylvius the Mad]

the_one_54321 wrote...

Infinity engine simulates D&D Advanced, and the Aurora engine simulates D&D 3.5.

I don't think those differences were very big with regard to gameplay.

As it happens, BG used 2nd edition AD&D rules, BG2 used those same rules with several additions from the optional Skills & Powers manuals (often called AD&D 2.5).  NWN was 3rd edition D&D.  NWN2 was D&D 3.5.