17599 réponses à ce sujet

[yoshibb]

I just played a game which showed how stupid and pointless deaths are such a weak plot tool. Without giving away spoilers, Dead Island had by far the stupidest ending I've seen in years and part of the reason was the random death of one of the characters at the end. It was so idiotic, so avoidable, that it came off as absolutely hilarious.

I will argue against death just for the sake of shocking people until the end of time. It is awful and just shows how weak your writing is.

[The Elder King]

Someone With Mass wrote...

I must say that the whole "killing people to prove how serious it is" thing will get old really fast if that's the only way the game can show that the situation won't be easy to handle.

In fact, I'd find it insulting if that's the way the game must try to prove it, as if I can't see that with my own eyes while planets are burning, buildings are crumbling and ships are being shot down by the dozens.

I also find it funny how some people are constantly asking for critical choices while they claim that losing squadmates is a must, taking away the ability to choose in the process.

If you want people dead, make it so. That's your choice.

Virmire is a critical choice. The SM is a joke. The only reason I could choose to kill someone in the SM is because I hate the character.
It doesn't have to be like squadmate_squadmate choice in ME3. Another option could be that if you choose to save one of your sqaudmate you'll lose something else.
And I didn't say that the squadmates should necessary die in ME3. I said that some major character should die. Someone like Anderson, Udina Aria (if she'll not be a squadmate), Hackett, the Council.
The fact is that Shepard is leading a squad in a war. Generally in a war the soldiers die.

[Someone With Mass]

yoshibb wrote...

I just played a game which showed how stupid and pointless deaths are such a weak plot tool. Without giving away spoilers, Dead Island had by far the stupidest ending I've seen in years and part of the reason was the random death of one of the characters at the end. It was so idiotic, so avoidable, that it came off as absolutely hilarious.

I will argue against death just for the sake of shocking people until the end of time. It is awful and just shows how weak your writing is.

That.

Seriously, there are other ways to express the environment and overall feel in games besides death.

Yes, it's a war. I get it. I realized that the second the Reapers landed and started to tear up the place.

[Someone With Mass]

Vertigo_1 wrote...

twitter.com/#!/macwalterslives/status/122057918496522240

"Watching @PWatamaniuk play #ME3 is like watching Andretti race. With Reapers and guns! #MmmReapersAndGuns"

Speaking of Reapers, where's that episode they promised?<_<

[The Elder King]

Someone With Mass wrote...


That.

Seriously, there are other ways to express the environment and overall feel in games besides death.

Yes, it's a war. I get it. I realized that the second the Reapers landed and started to tear up the place.

The fact is, I find a bit unrealistic that Shepard's squad survived in all of its member.

[RocketManSR2]

Vertigo_1 wrote...

twitter.com/#!/macwalterslives/status/122057918496522240

"Watching @PWatamaniuk play #ME3 is like watching Andretti race. With Reapers and guns! #MmmReapersAndGuns"

Thank you for getting us back on-topic. I'm also disappointed that the info drought shall continue.

- Sorry to be an armchair mod, but I think you'd rather have me than the Evil One tell you to create a new topic about who should live or die and how.

Modifié par RocketManSR2, 06 octobre 2011 - 09:50 .

[Vertigo_1]

twitter.com/#!/PatrickWeekes/status/122065544076726272

"Yeah, Garrus, it does look bad out there. On the up side, free pistol mod right on that shelf! #savingthegalaxy #itwasgoingtowaste"

Modifié par Vertigo_1, 06 octobre 2011 - 09:48 .

[Someone With Mass]

Vertigo_1 wrote...

twitter.com/#!/PatrickWeekes/status/122065544076726272

"Yeah, Garrus, it does look bad out there. On the up side, free pistol mod right on that shelf! #savingthegalaxy #itwasgoingtowaste"

What, no "WE COULD USE THIS"? 

[Arbalest7]

hhh89 wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...


That.

Seriously, there are other ways to express the environment and overall feel in games besides death.

Yes, it's a war. I get it. I realized that the second the Reapers landed and started to tear up the place.

The fact is, I find a bit unrealistic that Shepard's squad survived in all of its member.

Then have someone die during the mission if you really want to.  Why should those who want to keep there squad in tact be punished?

[Vertigo_1]

twitter.com/#!/PatrickWeekes/status/122067080257347584

"Game doing nice job of nudging me in right direction despite my fantastic ability to get lost. (Seriously, I get lost in hallways.)"

Modifié par Vertigo_1, 06 octobre 2011 - 09:54 .

[The Elder King]

Arbalest7 wrote...

hhh89 wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...


That.

Seriously, there are other ways to express the environment and overall feel in games besides death.

Yes, it's a war. I get it. I realized that the second the Reapers landed and started to tear up the place.

The fact is, I find a bit unrealistic that Shepard's squad survived in all of its member.

Then have someone die during the mission if you really want to.  Why should those who want to keep there squad in tact be punished?

Because I'll feel like an idiot to kill someone if I could avoid it, and it will have no value. It'll be a stupid thing to do.
I'm not saying that I want the squadmates die. I want to save them. The fact it that people in a war die, and you can't always save them.

[KBomb]

Someone With Mass wrote...

I must say that the whole "killing people to prove how serious it is" thing will get old really fast if that's the only way the game can show that the situation won't be easy to handle.

In fact, I'd find it insulting if that's the only way the game will try to prove it with, as if I can't see that with my own eyes while planets are burning, buildings are crumbling and ships are being shot down by the dozens.

I also find it funny how some people are constantly asking for critical choices while they claim that losing squadmates is a must, taking away the ability to choose in the process.

If you want people dead, make it so. That's your choice.

Exactly. I agree with this entire post.

[Vertigo_1]

Speaking of Reapers, where's that episode they promised?<_<

Already posted a few pages back but this week was more Dragon Age DLC w/ Felicia Day

So...next week?

Modifié par Vertigo_1, 06 octobre 2011 - 10:08 .

[Someone With Mass]

Vertigo_1 wrote...
Already posted a few pages back but this week was more Dragon Age DLC w/ Felicia Day

So...next week?

Damn. Oh well. Next week it is.

[JeffZero]

hhh89 wrote...

Arbalest7 wrote...

hhh89 wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...


That.

Seriously, there are other ways to express the environment and overall feel in games besides death.

Yes, it's a war. I get it. I realized that the second the Reapers landed and started to tear up the place.

The fact is, I find a bit unrealistic that Shepard's squad survived in all of its member.

Then have someone die during the mission if you really want to.  Why should those who want to keep there squad in tact be punished?

Because I'll feel like an idiot to kill someone if I could avoid it, and it will have no value. It'll be a stupid thing to do.
I'm not saying that I want the squadmates die. I want to save them. The fact it that people in a war die, and you can't always save them.

I see where you're coming from and I have a similar thought on the situation but I don't feel like an idiot when I orchestrate deaths.

[AdmiralCheez]

hhh89 wrote...

Because I'll feel like an idiot to kill someone if I could avoid it, and it will have no value. It'll be a stupid thing to do.
I'm not saying that I want the squadmates die. I want to save them. The fact it that people in a war die, and you can't always save them.

F*ck realism, I have real life for that.  And hey, if I need my videogames to have emotional gravity, I can always Nuzlocke.

Speaking of Nuzlocke, let's talk about the power of avoidable deaths.  For those of you who have no idea what the hell I'm talking about, nuzlocking is when you play a Pokemon game with these three simple rules:

1. You may only catch the first Pokemon you encounter in each area.  If you miss, too bad.
2. If any of your Pokemon faint, you must release them.  They are "dead."
3. No reloading.

Now, you wouldn't think it'd matter much (apart from making the game a pain in the ass to play), but when your little critter buddies are so rare and so easy to lose, you start to really care about them.  The knowledge that, at any moment, that douchebag of a wild Koffing could selfdestruct and destroy your beloved Butterfree keeps you constantly on edge.  Every victory feels immensely more important because you know that, had maybe one thing been different, you would have lost more than the match.

It's possible to beat the game without losing a single partner, sure.  But it requires immense skill, luck, and patience.  Every time you have to let a teammate go, you feel all the worse because you could have prevented it if you weren't so stupid and reckless.

The Suicide Mission would have had that sort of gravity had it been a little more difficult/had y'all not read the online strategy guides.

To continue the Pokemon analogy, Virmire was more like, "Hey, about to fight the Elite Four?  Not without a blood sacrifice, pal.  Hand over the Charizard and WATCH IT DIE IN PAIN BUAHAHA."  That's not dramatic, that's taking all the player's hard work and pissing on it because, ooh, look at that emtional storytelling!

(Also, another game series that's built off avoidable deaths: Fire Emblem.)

Modifié par AdmiralCheez, 07 octobre 2011 - 12:59 .

[JeffZero]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

hhh89 wrote...

Because I'll feel like an idiot to kill someone if I could avoid it, and it will have no value. It'll be a stupid thing to do.
I'm not saying that I want the squadmates die. I want to save them. The fact it that people in a war die, and you can't always save them.

F*ck realism, I have real life for that.  And hey, if I need my videogames to have emotional gravity, I can always Nuzlocke.

Speaking of Nuzlocke, let's talk about the power of avoidable deaths.  For those of you who have no idea what the hell I'm talking about, nuzlocking is when you play a Pokemon game with these three simple rules:

1. You may only catch the first Pokemon you encounter in each area.  If you miss, too bad.
2. If any of your Pokemon faint, you must release them.  They are "dead."
3. No reloading.

Now, you wouldn't think it'd matter much (apart from making the game a pain in the ass to play), but when your little critter buddies are so rare and so easy to lose, you start to really care about them.  The knowledge that, at any moment, that douchebag of a wild Koffing could selfdestruct and destroy your beloved Butterfree keeps you constantly on edge.  Every victory feels immensely more important because you know that, had maybe one thing been different, you would have lost more than the match.

It's possible to beat the game without losing a single partner, sure.  But it requires immense skill, luck, and patience.  Every time you have to let a teammate go, you feel all the worse because you could have prevented it if you weren't so stupid and reckless.

The Suicide Mission would have had that sort of gravity had it been a little more difficult/had y'all not read the online strategy guides.

To continue the Pokemon analogy, Virmire was more like, "Hey, about to fight the Elite Four?  Not without a blood sacrifice, pal.  Hand over the Charizard and WATCH IT DIE IN PAIN BUAHAHA."  That's not dramatic, that's taking all the player's hard work and pissing on it because, ooh, look at that emtional storytelling!

(Also, another game series that's built off avoidable deaths: Fire Emblem.)

Nuzlocking Pokemon, Fire Emblem... aw hell, I knew I friended you for a reason.

[Someone With Mass]

Cheez, you always manage to make me laugh in a good way.

[JeffZero]

Man, my GameFAQs buddy recently finished a Black run with JZero the Eevee. Hell yes. I lived.

Uh, anyway, Mass Effect is super effective.

Oh god, that worked.

[Benchpress610]

I will second Cheez rant with one of my own, maybe not as colorful, but here it goes:


I will have to side with the “player choice” camp in this discussion. When I see such a diversity of opinions, it becomes clear that BioWare will do well by its fans by going from the “Sunshine and Bunnies”, as Joker would say, to the galactic Judgment Day scenario. Yes, many people will die, it’s inevitable. But at least the player will have the choice of Shepard, playing his cards right, and saving all his friends and forging alliances with every race in the galaxy.
 
I think believability is a relative term and depends on personal perception. “Sunshine and Bunnies” might not be believable for must of us, but it will be for some. BioWare has made a game where, according to Casey Hudson, player choice is paramount. Therefore, the player should have the option of having an ending of his/her liking. This is OUR game. For two games we have shaped our Shepard and our galaxy according to our choices. We have fought along and shared time with our favorite characters. It should stand to reason we have a say in how we want it to end.
 
And yes, I understand it’s unreasonable expecting 1000 different endings, as the development of the game would be practically impossible. Obviously everyone has an opinion, and that’s fine, but that’s all it is, an opinion.
 
And one more thing: this is a science-fiction game. I don’t think the words “believable” and “realistic” have much application here where we have accepted the main premise of the story of mass relays and FTL travel. While this makes for a very good story, and I plead as guilty as everyone here of loving the concept, it violates all of today’s known laws of Physics. So lighten up a little will ya!!

[Gorosaur]

I find this discussion interesting because it essentially boils down to how we perceive a series in terms of writing and storytelling.

You will find that with any series it is typically the first that is most beloved and universally praised. Now the first installment of a series in any medium may not be the best but it has something going for it that the other installments don't.

The original of any series thrives in that the player/reader/viewer has no preconceived ideas of what they are in for. It is at this point that media is given the most leeway and control seeing as it is building our appreciation for the world, story, and characters.

After the first installment has gone along its way, the player/reader/viewer has now developed an idea of what they think of the series, but more importantly what they think it should be and how and where it should end.

In this way, people take ownership of a series more so than they do for a singular piece of storytelling which essentially just leaves a single impression. This is primarily why finales are so fundamentally polarizing among fanbases.

Bioware has actually made this worse for themselves with the Mass Effect series by introducing the idea of player choice. Player's not only want to receive the ending the've envisioned, but due to dialogue choices they expect it as well.

Many players have come up with the assumption that Mass Effect is a literal mold that can be shaped into any form they wish. While nice in concept and partially true, this is simply not the case. Bioware like any other story writer is out to tell a story, and while you have influence upon its outcome it was never about making your own completely original adventure. This is why the issue of character death is so personal for fans, and why Bioware may have made their most controversial game to date.

(Sorry for the slightly off topic rant)

[AdmiralCheez]

JeffZero wrote...

Man, my GameFAQs buddy recently finished a Black run with JZero the Eevee. Hell yes. I lived.

Awesome.  I was doing a Nuzlocke on Ruby, but after Lord Tater the Linoone took a critical hit to the face, I kinda ragequit.  I'll pick it back up when I'm done grieving.

WHY, LORD TATER, WHYYYYY?!

Uh, anyway, Mass Effect is super effective.

Oh god, that worked.

Pokemon references are always appropriate.

[Tyrannosaurus Rex]

[quote]AdmiralCheez wrote...
Man, my GameFAQs buddy recently finished a Black run with JZero the Eevee. Hell yes. I lived.[/quote]
Awesome.  I was doing a Nuzlocke on Ruby, but after Lord Tater the Linoone took a critical hit to the face, I kinda ragequit.  I'll pick it back up when I'm done grieving.
[/quote]

Linoone.. Is that Zigzagoon's evolution?

Also. Ruby? Cheez I am disapointed, Saphire is much more kewl.

Kyogre > Groudon.

Althrough Groudon's instant solar beam was pretty sexy.