17599 réponses à ce sujet

[MrDbow]

CptBomBom00 wrote...
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I saw that more as the VS saying that because Shepard ignored him/her during that part.

[100k]

IsaacShep wrote...

Cthulhu42 wrote...

What Tali and Garrus did. They saw everything Cerberus did too, and that didn't stop them from sticking by Shepard.

Nevermind what that fact alone tells us about them, for VS the Cerberus thing is much more important and closer issue. They're not only humans themselves, they're in the Alliance.

The bigger issue is that the VS didn't trust Shepard flat out. Shepard uncovered the Reaper threat, discovered a lost planet, became a sort of prophet, and killed another prophet (Saren), yet Kaien (and Ash) don't have time to let Shepard explain himself? Now, I understand that he was just doing his damn job, but...c'mon! When you witness someone like Shepard stand up against the Council and the Alliance despite a mountain of doubters, you shouldn't shun them for working with "terrorists". You should shut up and at least listen.

The biggest issue however is that the dialogue in that scene was ****** awful. Bioware clearly had little to no idea what they were planning with that scene, and just needed there to be some reletively short conflict between two characters.

[Badpie]

rapscallioness wrote...

A tweet from Casey abt. an hour ago. Interesting question.

"A colleague and I once debated: great games evoke emotions from the player, but are some off the table - like rejection or jealousy?"

I think if you're wanting to evoke a certain emotion within the story that's okay, but people are playing games ultimately to enjoy them and not just suffer through them.  Can we have the bad feelings?  Sure, as long as the good feelings counter them enough.

If he's talking about the fan feeling rejected or ignored or betrayed, particularly when they are long time fans, then I would ask, why would they even want to do that?  Say they purposely take something they know will upset a lot of fans and do it purely for "emotional engagement."  I don't think that's good.  That feels a little mean spirited in my opinion.

Modifié par Badpie, 24 novembre 2011 - 01:52 .

[lobi]

100k wrote...

IsaacShep wrote...

Cthulhu42 wrote...

What Tali and Garrus did. They saw everything Cerberus did too, and that didn't stop them from sticking by Shepard.

Nevermind what that fact alone tells us about them, for VS the Cerberus thing is much more important and closer issue. They're not only humans themselves, they're in the Alliance.

The bigger issue is that the VS didn't trust Shepard flat out. Shepard uncovered the Reaper threat, discovered a lost planet, became a sort of prophet, and killed another prophet (Saren), yet Kaien (and Ash) don't have time to let Shepard explain himself? Now, I understand that he was just doing his damn job, but...c'mon! When you witness someone like Shepard stand up against the Council and the Alliance despite a mountain of doubters, you shouldn't shun them for working with "terrorists". You should shut up and at least listen.

The biggest issue however is that the dialogue in that scene was ****** awful. Bioware clearly had little to no idea what they were planning with that scene, and just needed there to be some reletively short conflict between two characters.

Emotions and actions of the VS point to Survivor guilt manifesting as mild PTSD. This is why Shepard doesnt get angry. Shepard is military and soldiers know about this stuff. It being cerberous just exacerbates the situation.

Modifié par lobi, 24 novembre 2011 - 02:02 .

[xxSgt_Reed_24xx]

Cthulhu42 wrote...

IsaacShep wrote...

Cthulhu42 wrote...

For saying things like "You've turned your back on everything we stood for" and for not trusting Shepard.

And what would have you said being Kaidan and seeing everything Cerberus did in ME1?

What Tali and Garrus did. They saw everything Cerberus did too, and that didn't stop them from sticking by Shepard.

So you'd be a blind sheep?

lol

[Vertigo_1]

twitter.com/#!/jhaletweets/status/139505776535408642

"Great Mass Effect 3 session with the Illusive Man today."

Modifié par Vertigo_1, 24 novembre 2011 - 02:24 .

[ralx22]

Aren't you guys forgetting the email that the vs sends to shepard that somewhat explains why they reacted the way they did on horizon. The vs evens apologizes for their reaction to shepard and wishes he/she stays safe.

[100k]

lobi wrote...

100k wrote...

IsaacShep wrote...

Cthulhu42 wrote...

What Tali and Garrus did. They saw everything Cerberus did too, and that didn't stop them from sticking by Shepard.

Nevermind what that fact alone tells us about them, for VS the Cerberus thing is much more important and closer issue. They're not only humans themselves, they're in the Alliance.

The bigger issue is that the VS didn't trust Shepard flat out. Shepard uncovered the Reaper threat, discovered a lost planet, became a sort of prophet, and killed another prophet (Saren), yet Kaien (and Ash) don't have time to let Shepard explain himself? Now, I understand that he was just doing his damn job, but...c'mon! When you witness someone like Shepard stand up against the Council and the Alliance despite a mountain of doubters, you shouldn't shun them for working with "terrorists". You should shut up and at least listen.

The biggest issue however is that the dialogue in that scene was ****** awful. Bioware clearly had little to no idea what they were planning with that scene, and just needed there to be some reletively short conflict between two characters.

Emotions and actions of the VS point to Survivor guilt manifesting as mild PTSD. This is why Shepard doesnt get angry. Shepard is military and soldiers know about this stuff. It being cerberous just exacerbates the situation.

Let me reword my blaiming of BW. 

'I'm not a traitor' = "Ash, you know me! You know I'd only do this for the right reasons!" 

Essentially that sentence right there implies that Shepard IS a traitor, simply one that took up a utilitarian-Saren view point. 

Shepard isn't unemotional because he's a well rehearsed soldier. He's unemotional because, for whatever reason, Bioware didn't really care to put work in to make Meer and Hale react to situations (probably for BETA clarity that was just never changed for the final product). Another example would be when Grunt slams Shepard against a wall, rams his hand up against Shepard's neck/chest, and Meer/Hale react in an absurdly calm and completely unbelieveable voice (and don't you dare attempt to justify this as a stupd "Shepard has ______" argument).

[ralx22]

@Cthulhu42
Apparently you only get that email if you romanced the vs, but even then, the way the vs reacts isn't completely unreasonable considering that they are alliance and from their perspective have no reason to trust cerberus. Let alone abandon their post as an alliance soldier at that moment.

[MasterEcabob]

Hey guys, this is the TWITTER thread, not the Cerberus thread. Please stay on topic!

[Iakus]

Badpie wrote...

rapscallioness wrote...

A tweet from Casey abt. an hour ago. Interesting question.

"A colleague and I once debated: great games evoke emotions from the player, but are some off the table - like rejection or jealousy?"

I think if you're wanting to evoke a certain emotion within the story that's okay, but people are playing games ultimately to enjoy them and not just suffer through them.  Can we have the bad feelings?  Sure, as long as the good feelings counter them enough.

If he's talking about the fan feeling rejected or ignored or betrayed, particularly when they are long time fans, then I would ask, why would they even want to do that?  Say they purposely take something they know will upset a lot of fans and do it purely for "emotional engagement."  I don't think that's good.  That feels a little mean spirited in my opinion.

I like this answer.

[jessielou]

I don't mind being made to feel jealous or rejected (I've already threatened to launch Dr. Michel out an airlock if she ends up being Kaidan's "doctor"), as long as it gets resolved. I don't want to walk away from my ME experience feeling like a kicked puppy.

[Digifi]

Vertigo_1 wrote...

twitter.com/#!/jhaletweets/status/139505776535408642

"Great Mass Effect 3 session with the Illusive Man today."

Is it just me or does it seem like there's a lot more joint recording sessions this time?

I'm taking that as a really good thing because it seems hard to truly work top notch dialog unless you have both sides of the conversation in the room and you can feel the emotion the other person is putting into it.

EDIT: I guess they may not have said as much about it in ME2 development, but I recall during one of the interviews with a VA it being said that they were mostly alone for ME2.

Modifié par Digifi, 24 novembre 2011 - 04:32 .

[Zu Long]

Speaking for myself, my Shepard is going to throw the book and then some at Ash next time we see each other.

[Someone With Mass]

xxSgt_Reed_24xx wrote...

So you'd be a blind sheep?

lol

No, I'd have faith in the man/woman who's fighting the Reapers and not give up all hope just like that.

That's just me, though.

[Funkcase]

Someone With Mass wrote...

xxSgt_Reed_24xx wrote...

So you'd be a blind sheep?

lol

No, I'd have faith in the man/woman who's fighting the Reapers and not give up all hope just like that.

That's just me, though.

Dont you mean that zombie who's back from the dead with no explanation and is working for a terrorist organisation who are known to do stuff like this for their own agenda and not for the interest of the whole galaxy? Yeah it's totally not realistic to be worried here, a real friend will stroke your ego and kiss your ass no matter what...

Anyway let's keep this out of the topic now, it's alread starting to derail it.

[CroGamer002]

Funkcase wrote...


Dont you mean that zombie who's back from the dead with no explanation and is working for a terrorist organisation who are known to do stuff like this for their own agenda and not for the interest of the whole galaxy? Yeah it's totally not realistic to be worried here, a real friend will stroke your ego and kiss your ass no matter what...

Anyway let's keep this out of the topic now, it's alread starting to derail it.

That ain't exactly public knowledge.

Actually, it's not even known outside of Cerberus.


I don't remember Shepard saying he/she died and was resurrected to anyone, but to people from Cerberus.

Modifié par Mesina2, 24 novembre 2011 - 10:35 .

[Funkcase]

Shepard said it to Tali and Garrus, although he told them a lame excuse like ''Cerberus rebuilt me'' That should've gave them pause but nothing more was said. I found it strange how nobody mentioned it whilst I was thinking it the whole game, lol. But yeah the VS knew Shepard died and is now working for Cerberus, they must assume something unethical happened here, that always seems to be the case with Cerberus.

Modifié par Funkcase, 24 novembre 2011 - 10:46 .

[Ulathar]

Badpie wrote...

rapscallioness wrote...

A tweet from Casey abt. an hour ago. Interesting question.

"A colleague and I once debated: great games evoke emotions from the player, but are some off the table - like rejection or jealousy?"

I think if you're wanting to evoke a certain emotion within the story that's okay, but people are playing games ultimately to enjoy them and not just suffer through them.  Can we have the bad feelings?  Sure, as long as the good feelings counter them enough.

If he's talking about the fan feeling rejected or ignored or betrayed, particularly when they are long time fans, then I would ask, why would they even want to do that?  Say they purposely take something they know will upset a lot of fans and do it purely for "emotional engagement."  I don't think that's good.  That feels a little mean spirited in my opinion.

Well said.

[mineralica]

Vertigo_1 wrote...

Welsh Inferno wrote...

 https://twitter.com/...704175528812544

If we had been under such tough constraints on #ME3 that we supported only one love interest character, who would you choose?

twitter.com/#!/gtez/status/138725718862462977

"Stop making the fans afraid lol"

Lol indeed

[Pride Demon]

xxSgt_Reed_24xx wrote...

So you'd be a blind sheep?

lol

Now that's just mean...
It would be nice if you reconsidered this statement, especially considering Garrus and Tali as characters have depth, they aren't flat pieces of paper doing things just because "thou must"...
After being recruited both of them show concern about Shepard "affiliation", it's not like they just go along with it...

Looking at the other side, it would also be nice if people didn't bash the VS too much...
Each reacts to grief their own way, and unlike what you have with the other characters, the VS joining with Shepard (who is with Cerberus) would be flat out treason towards the Alliance...
Sure the way they deliver their speech can be a bit painful (can't think of a better term now :/), but that's just it...

Funkcase wrote...
Dont you mean that zombie who's back from the dead with no explanation
and is working for a terrorist organisation who are known to do stuff
like this for their own agenda and not for the interest of the whole
galaxy? Yeah it's totally not realistic to be worried here, a real
friend will stroke your ego and kiss your ass no matter what...

This is even meaner... Turning it around one cound say "a real friend, if you do something you'll normally not do, will question your better judgement and refuse to even consider your explanations no matter what..."
Both visions are simplistic and reductive of the character's actual depth, in my opinion...

Regardless, I always got the feeling that, even if Shepard says he/she was dead and brought back to life to his/her crew, no one actually believes him/her... Except Miranda, Jacob and Liara of course...
I always felt they consider that some sort of cover for what Shep did in those two years, probably to rationalize how it is possible he/she came back...

After all, if the Shadow Broker was able to recover his/her body from Alchera, it means nobody made the effort to search for it, so Shepard was never officially confirmed to be dead, as in they buried him/her (the Alliance in fact downplayed Shep's death if I'm not mistaken)...
I'd be happy if this issue were to be resolved in ME3, possibly causing some emotional shift in Shep's companions (or at least confirming they believe him/her)...

That said, we should probably avoid taking too many tangents, and keep ourselves on topic...

Modifié par Pride Demon, 24 novembre 2011 - 01:53 .

[Funkcase]

Sorry, I didn't mean to come across so harsh. It just gets to me how some people make out that the VS turned their back on Shepard and are no longer a real friend of Shepards. If someone calls you a God/Legend I'm sure they're your friend if not more than that.

The whole fact they confirmed Shepards story to the Council (they could've just said Shepards a traitor but they didn't, they told them Shepard was telling the truth) I found the scene on Horizon not as them turning on Shepard, but more that they're confused, Shepard was supposed to be dead, Joker even witnessed it. And now Shepard is back working for a enemy of the Alliance. They're worried Cerberus are controlling him/her (they could've put a control chip in him/her) or that it's not really Shepard at all. Thats how I saw it, just confusion. I wish I could've explained things better as Shepard though, but I assume by that recent tweet that'll come up in ME3.

I agree, let's move on. This can be discussed in the Ash or Kaidan thread if need be I suppose.

[CroGamer002]

Funkcase wrote...

Shepard said it to Tali and Garrus, although he told them a lame excuse like ''Cerberus rebuilt me'' That should've gave them pause but nothing more was said. I found it strange how nobody mentioned it whilst I was thinking it the whole game, lol. But yeah the VS knew Shepard died and is now working for Cerberus, they must assume something unethical happened here, that always seems to be the case with Cerberus.

Since when does "rebuilt me" means being brought back alive from death?

At best, they can assume Shepard was in coma( which Shepard actually says) and some of his/hers body parts were replaced.


And no, nobody but Cerberus, Shadow Broker, Collectors, Reapers and Liara knew Shepard died.


And that's only after Shadow Broker find that first when Collectors asked to bring them Shepard's body an the rest followed.



Shepard was officially MIA, just Council wanted Shepard gone to shut down any reference to Reapers and said he/she is KIA despite no body was found.


Last person who seen Shepard alive is Joker and he had no idea what really happen to Shepard until Cerberus called him to work for them.

[CerberusWarrior]

Ash will rot on the SR 2 in ME 3 in my game she will be ignored . her actions in ME 2 was inexcusable . Bad writing or not Shepard deserves better .