284 réponses à ce sujet

[CulturalGeekGirl]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

I wish to clarify on the title of my old thread linked in the OP, since apparently not all people get it right.

"The only and enough reason NO ME2 SQUAD will be recruitable by default in ME3"

By "default" I meant that they wouldn't be accessible to players who start a new fresh Shepard character in ME3. The same way Wrex's cameo was inaccessible in fresh ME2 Shepards' playthroughs.

Now, that'd been before the PS3 comic was even announced, so kudos to BioWare that they made that content available at least to the PS3 newbies... However, it is my understanding that the comic can be skipped (not DL'd) and then it's a no-Wrex-no-Rachni-no-Council-no-nothing game.

I expect the same to be true to the ME3 default start. It will either assume that ALL ME2 squadmates have been killed in the suicide mision (like in my gibbed save that I'll have to import in ME3 and collect my 2 million internet cookies, when the game does not crash and is winnable), or that just two of them survived (those two being either Miranda&Jacob or Miranda&Mordin - credit to Sir Ulrich von Lichenstein here) who won't be recruitable in ME3 at that.

This way all the optional content (which at this point includes all ME2 squadmates) will be considered reward for the veteran players, while the newbies will be encouraged to go back to ME2, or at least download the intro comic (which you can bet my arse will come only with the fresh copy of the game).

That's why, my dear Garlock, I am not proven wrong. It's elementary.

See, this is the kind of crap you keep trying to pull, and it's frankly pretty ridiculous.

Your original post says

"=> ME2 squadmates = cameos, DLCs." 

And

Zulu_DFA wrote..."BioWare will want to reward importing ME2 characters in ME3. How? More
camoes. Who's cameos? The former squadmates' cameos who will all be dead
by default (except two, probably Miranda & Jacob, still cameo-ed,
though). Bioware can't penalize newbies, let alone casual ME2 players
(who may not have an all-in save) by withdrawing available recruitables
from ME3."

Nothing about them being optional full time squadmates for returning players, nothing about them being temporary squaddies. It's explicitly stated "cameos only" and you explicitly say that "some will come back, some won't" isn't part of the premise of your thread - they wil ALL be cameos. Honestly, having them all be dead in the default sounds completely nuts to me. Pretty much only hardcore and/or moronic players have more than a handful of dead squadmates in their game, and everyone I've met who accidentally had more than 1-3 squad deaths in the SM did a better replay (or decided they didn't care about the game). Having the decision-making comic come with the game pretty much invalidates any assumptions one could make about the percentage of characters who will be dealing with a "default save" (My old premise about the default save is that it would have between 4-5 squad members dead, more than the 1-2 that die on average but less than the worst case scenario.)

Remember: on average, out of all of the hundreds of thousands of save games Bioware datamined, only 14% of the squad dies on the SM.

You can't just define your terms vaguely and come back eight months later to redefine them and prove you were "right." That's not how the internet works.

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 12 mai 2011 - 05:17 .

[jeweledleah]

In game comic... as in part of the shipped game? as in if you are not importing, you get the comic by default? since all new players will need intro?

the game will be winnable and probably at great cost) without most ME2 squadmates because some people deliberately created worst possible imports and bioware doesn't like to truly punish players. Heck the game is winnable without using a single persuasion/interrupt essentially completely bypassing paragon/renegade system (yes its possible, with losses and less quests, but its possible)

but just like paragon/renegade system is useful and makes things easier/more effective, so do more varying squadmates.

[-Skorpious-]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

-Skorpious- wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

By "default" I meant that they wouldn't be accessible to players who start a new fresh Shepard character in ME3. The same way Wrex's cameo was inaccessible in fresh ME2 Shepards' playthroughs.

Now, that'd been before the PS3 comic was even announced, so kudos to BioWare that they made that content available at least to the PS3 newbies... However, it is my understanding that the comic can be skipped (not DL'd) and then it's a no-Wrex-no-Rachni-no-Council-no-nothing game.


This way all the optional content (which at this point includes all ME2 squadmates) will be considered reward for the veteran players, while the newbies will be encouraged to go back to ME2, or at least download the intro comic (which you can bet my arse will come only with the fresh copy of the game.

I'm pretty sure Casey mentioned that new ME3 users will be treated to an in-game comic to determine the choices of ME/ME2. 

Edit - Yeah, page 74 of the XboxWorld 360 magazine reveals that both the PS3 comic and a "really fancy savegame generator" will allow new fans to make the major ME/ME2 decisions. I assume this means new fans will be given the chance to determine the course of the suicide mission. 

PS - normally I would provide a link, but that it agaisnt site rules since they are scans. 

Which, I repeat, will mean that they are not recruitable by default. You'll have to download a comic for that.
Which will mean that the game is still winnable without them.

The comic which determines end-game ME2 decisions will be available on all ME3 disks if GameWorld 360 is indeed accurate. Why should the ME2 crew be left out of ME3 when players are given (if not forced) a generator to use? If they skip it, then the ME1 decisions from the default ME2 savegame are used, but Bioware can still decide that the suicide mission was a complete success for a default ME3 save.

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Which will mean that they don't have nearly as many lines as the permas such as Liara, VS, and any of the newfaces.
Which will mean that they are a total waste of bytes for everybody except their particular fan-bases.

I'm going to go out on a limb and say that ME2 squadmates will receive almost the same amount as non-killables. Why? Look at ME - only Liara/Tali impacted the plot beyond being a hired gun. In ME2 only Jacob, Miranda and Mordin played critical plot-essential roles - that means 75% of ME2 squadmate dialogue is, essentially, useless optional content. Thats a lot of writing to 'waste' on content some may never access.

Sure, the ME2 characters may miss a few specific plot events, but why does that stop Bioware from developing significant dialogue for the ME2 squadmates? Especially since the crew size is getting cut-back? 

Modifié par -Skorpious-, 12 mai 2011 - 05:37 .

[didymos1120]

jeweledleah wrote...

In game comic... as in part of the shipped game? as in if you are not importing, you get the comic by default? since all new players will need intro?

From what's been said, it's not going to an actual comic.  It's just going to be like the one on the PS3 version of ME2 in that it allows people to make choices.  Also, everybody gets it.  If you import then it just becomes a non-interactive recap of your major choices.  If you start fresh, it will pause and allow you make the decisions yourself.

Modifié par didymos1120, 12 mai 2011 - 05:30 .

[didymos1120]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

You can't just define your terms vaguely and come back eight months later to redefine them and prove you were "right." That's not how the internet works.

Well, that actually is how the internet works.  It's not how reality does, however.

[jeweledleah]

didymos1120 wrote...

jeweledleah wrote...

In game comic... as in part of the shipped game? as in if you are not importing, you get the comic by default? since all new players will need intro?

From what's been said, it's not going to an actual comic.  It's just going to be like the one on the PS3 version of ME2 in that it allows people to make choices.  Also, everybody gets it.  If you import then it just becomes a non-interactive recap of your major choices.  If you start fresh, it will pause and allow you make the decisions yourself.

yep.  I should have phrased it better and used different punctuation.  was just trying to reply to Zulu, as he seems to imply that comic would be optional.

[Zulu_DFA]

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

Nothing about them being optional full time squadmates for returning players

Zulu_DFA wrote...

"=> ME2 squadmates = cameos, DLCs."

Zaeed, Kasumi. Optional, not recruitable by default.

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

, nothing about them being temporary squaddies.

I can admit that at the time of posting that thread I had already dismissed previusly postulated possiblility, that there would be what I called "playeable cameos" at the time. Later the term "temporary squadmate" became more common (and much less clumsy than mine), although basically it had the same meaning. And with the LotSB's release I returned to admitting of that as a possiblility for the ME2 expendables' treatment in ME3, and a quite probable one (and the one that's now is definitely confirmed).

And if you are determined to catch me on my word and insist that I don't have this thing you call "intellectual honesty", I'm prepared to dig my earlier post as well as the more recent ones (from the linked thread) postulating that some (a few) ME2 squadmates could be given the LotSB or Kasumi treatment in ME3.

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

You can't just define your terms vaguely and come back eight months later to redefine them and prove you were "right." That's not how the internet works.

And I can't write a treatise on every single topic I choose to speculate about. Not so much that I'm unable to, but I prefer to get spam pics than TL;DR-s in response. The pics are usually funny.

And I know what I meant. That's good enough for me to make clarifications any time I see people don't get it.

CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

you explicitly say that "some will come back, some won't

Oh, and BTW, this is just plain putting words in my mouth. I always said that ALL ME2 expendables would be back  (just like Casey God bless his mother Hudson has confirmed), but in roles different than full-time Shep's henchmen (which Casey Hudson has also confirmed about at least half of the expendables).

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 12 mai 2011 - 06:00 .

[Zulu_DFA]

didymos1120 wrote...

jeweledleah wrote...

In game comic... as in part of the shipped game? as in if you are not importing, you get the comic by default? since all new players will need intro?

From what's been said, it's not going to an actual comic.  It's just going to be like the one on the PS3 version of ME2 in that it allows people to make choices.  Also, everybody gets it.  If you import then it just becomes a non-interactive recap of your major choices.  If you start fresh, it will pause and allow you make the decisions yourself.

Is there a reference to the information that the comic will be on disk, as opposed to some "Cerberus Network" thing?

[Quole]

Zulu, do you have ANYTHING better to do than troll?

[Zulu_DFA]

Quole wrote...

Zulu, do you have ANYTHING better to do than troll?

Don't you have anything better than feeding the trolls?

Here is a hint: you think it's trolling - report, don't post. And move along.

[Quole]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Quole wrote...

Zulu, do you have ANYTHING better to do than troll?

Don't you have anything better than feeding the trolls?

Here is a hint: you think it's trolling - report, don't post. And move along.

evidently not.

Also, no. I dont have anything better to do.

U mad?

[HTTP 404]

woo hoo! I like to think my poll in my sn helped? nah probably not.

[noisecode]

Actually I specifically remember Zulu saying, in several threads and posts, across several months, that " No charecter's from mass effect 2 will be returning as full squadmates."   He spoke at great lengths about how Tali and Garrus would be "Cameos"


So someone pass him some salt so he can eat his words .....

[Quole]

noisecode wrote...

Actually I specifically remember Zulu saying, in several threads and posts, across several months, that " No charecter's from mass effect 2 will be returning as full squadmates."   He spoke at great lengths about how Tali and Garrus would be "Cameos"


So someone pass him some salt so he can eat his words .....

You DO know hes trolling, right? Just saying.

[noisecode]

Quole wrote...

noisecode wrote...

Actually I specifically remember Zulu saying, in several threads and posts, across several months, that " No charecter's from mass effect 2 will be returning as full squadmates."   He spoke at great lengths about how Tali and Garrus would be "Cameos"


So someone pass him some salt so he can eat his words .....

You DO know hes trolling, right? Just saying.

Of course.....and he is slightly foolish, and I'm slightly amused watching him try and explain / weasle / talk his way out of his stone cold predictions.

I been looking forward to this for months.

but only slightly....

[Zulu_DFA]

Quole wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Quole wrote...

Zulu, do you have ANYTHING better to do than troll?

Don't you have anything better than feeding the trolls?

Here is a hint: you think it's trolling - report, don't post. And move along.

evidently not.

Also, no. I dont have anything better to do.

U mad?

So who's troll here?

[Zulu_DFA]

HTTP 404 wrote...

woo hoo! I like to think my poll in my sn helped? nah probably not.

You know who I am, and that is my favorite poll on the Internet.

[CulturalGeekGirl]

[quote]Zulu_DFA wrote...

I can admit that at the time of posting that thread I had already dismissed previusly postulated possiblility, that there would be what I called "playeable cameos" at the time. Later the term "temporary squadmate" became more common (and much less clumsy than mine), although basically it's had the same meaning. And with the LotSB's release I returned to admitting of that as a possiblility for the ME2 expendables' treatment in ME3, and a quite probable one (and the one that's now is definitely confirmed).

And if you are determined to catch me on my word and insist that I don't have this thing you call "intellectual honesty", I'm prepared to dig my earlier post as well as the more recent ones (from the linked thread) postulating that some (a few) ME2 squadmates could be given the LotSB or Kasumi treatment in ME3.[/quote]

I'm just saying that it would make more sense if you said "I was probably wrong about the idea of returning permanent or temporary squadmates when I wrote that thread, just like I'm wrong about most of my predictions I made early on when there wasn't much data. Still: here's my new theory. Maybe this time it'll be right, it's based on the same premises as my original theory, but now it incorporates new data."

You linked to that thread when starting this one. "These are the shadows of the things that have been, that they are what they are, do not blame me." (To quote a popular Dickens paraphrase.) You asked the question "Was I right when I created that thread?" to which the answer, given the evidence we have right now, seems to be "probably not." You provided a single link. Upon clicking that link, I find sound evidence that you were probably wrong. If you want to prove that you were, in fact, right later in that thread, that is up to you.

I change my theories based on evidence all the time, and openly admit it. I've admitted that, given the high probability of frequent temporary squadmates and the focus on a smaller team, my original list of "3-7 squadmates likely to return permanently" is may not be valid beyond the first few entries. I'm not going to be so bold as to say "when I said those seven were likely to return, I meant some of them would be permanent and some temporary" because I feel that would be disingenuous.

I guess I'm saying that I've had enough of your disingenuous assertions.

[quote]Zulu_DFA wrote...
[quote]CulturalGeekGirl wrote...

You can't just define your terms vaguely and come back eight months later to redefine them and prove you were "right." That's not how the internet works.[/quote]
And I can't write a treatise on every single topic I choose to speculate about. Not so much that I'm unable to, but I prefer to get spam pics than TL;DR-s in response. The pics are usually funny.

And I know what I meant. That's good enough for me to make clarifications any time I see people don't get it.

[/quote][/quote]
So you're more interested in inciting than communicating? I guess that makes sense.

And if knowing what you meant is all it takes, then I will say this:

"ME2 characters will return in ME3."

There. Now no matter what happens, I am completely, totally, and inarguably right. I've perfectly predicted every character's exact role and appearance in ME2, down to the exact number of lines of text they have and how many outfits they can wear. If you don't get it, that's fine. I'll clarify what I mean. Meet me back here in...  say... May of 2012.

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 12 mai 2011 - 06:05 .

[HTTP 404]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

HTTP 404 wrote...

woo hoo! I like to think my poll in my sn helped? nah probably not.

You know who I am, and that is my favorite poll on the Internet.

I remember your thread way back when talking about squadmates who could die couldn't return as squadmates.  And I agreed with you.  I think we are half right.  but to some, we are half wrong.  

[Quole]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Quole wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Quole wrote...

Zulu, do you have ANYTHING better to do than troll?

Don't you have anything better than feeding the trolls?

Here is a hint: you think it's trolling - report, don't post. And move along.

evidently not.

Also, no. I dont have anything better to do.

U mad?

So who's troll here?

You?

Modifié par Quole, 12 mai 2011 - 06:12 .

[Elite Midget]

This is why you can't have intelligent debate on these forums. When you bring forth evidence you get attacked by mobs of Tali and Garrus Fans.

Interesting, Zulu. Though Tali and Garrus Fans wont even entertain the thought that Garrus and Tali aren't premanent Squaddies in ME3 because that would ruin ME3 for them. Yet it's okay that Miranda and co. aren't permanent squaddies in their Hypocritical Eyes.

Modifié par Elite Midget, 12 mai 2011 - 06:13 .

[noisecode]

Zulu_DFA wrote...


And I can't write a treatise on every single topic I choose to speculate about.

Ah but you don't speculate Zulu..... you made those posts and declarations as though you were the Sybil herself.

(( She was a prophet / oracle in case you have to ask ))

When you made all those posts it was like you had built a TARDIS and propeled yourself into the future, played Mass Effect 3, and came back to tell us about it.  ((seems a lot of people are doing this lately -  i weep for the space time continuum))

You were'nt speculating....  you were dictating your opnion as fact.

Modifié par noisecode, 12 mai 2011 - 06:18 .

[CulturalGeekGirl]

And yet the Mordin fans all calmly sit back and say "even if he's just an NPC, I'm just glad to have him around again, and I will not take it personally if other squadmates return full time, rather I will welcome them with open arms."

Man, we Mordin fans are THE BEST.

Also, if I hadn't already completely and unerringly predicted the
appearance of every single squadmate in ME3, I would put Miranda next on
the list of "people who might be permanent squadmates." But if you read
my definitive treatise on ME3 in my previous post, and if you really
"get it," you already know exactly what role she will have.

Modifié par CulturalGeekGirl, 12 mai 2011 - 06:30 .

[Seboist]

Even though Tali is one of my top five favorite squaddies it's ridiculous how she and Garrus have gotten special status over all the others when they were just as disposable as the rest.

What also blows is that we get no new LIs. First we get robbed out of romances with Zaeed and Kasumi and now we're getting nothing at all in ME3? That's bull****.