188 réponses à ce sujet

[marshalleck]

turian councilor Knockout wrote...

Well, it was good that biotics couldn't blast through shields in ME 2, it should've been too easy and it added a little tactical approach to the combat system, anyway biotics is far from nerfed in ME 2 if you know how to to play biotic classes.

Eh. I hardly think setting up warp bombs is an interesting way to play a biotics class in ME2. And that's about it as far as "know how to play a biotic class" is concerned. 

Effective? Yes. 
Boring? **** yes. 

Modifié par marshalleck, 12 mai 2011 - 01:35 .

[Sailears]

^And that's why it's best to minimise warp bombs and stick to pull/throw among others.

[rabidhanar]

One way to make biotic playing more fun would just be introducing a biotic power that works well on shields, which is the only true defense that booties cannot handle. This is why having a biotic with Energy Drain in ME2 is so much more entertaining to play.

[marshalleck]

Curunen wrote...

^And that's why it's best to minimise warp bombs and stick to pull/throw among others.

To do what? Make bad guys stand up so you can shoot at them like a gimped soldier? 

I think there must be a better solution than almost entirely negating the strengths of an adept on hardcore/insanity. And before you bother to say anything useless like L2P, I've beat ME2 on insanity with an adept. 

Modifié par marshalleck, 12 mai 2011 - 01:39 .

[Bozorgmehr]

marshalleck wrote...

turian councilor Knockout wrote...

Well, it was good that biotics couldn't blast through shields in ME 2, it should've been too easy and it added a little tactical approach to the combat system, anyway biotics is far from nerfed in ME 2 if you know how to to play biotic classes.

Eh. I hardly think setting up warp bombs is an interesting way to play a biotics class in ME2. And that's about it as far as "know how to play a biotic class" is concerned. 

Effective? Yes. 
Boring? **** yes. 

BS! Anyone claiming biotics are worthless because enemies have defenses are saying biotic are total crap. On Insanity enemies have a lot more health than on Veteran thus a lot more damage can be inflicted through biotic powers AND multiple biotic powers are effective against defenses. Hell, the Adept signature power's main purpose is using it against enemies with defenses.

It's really amazing that people still haven't figured out basic game mechanics after one and half year 

[turian councilor Knockout]

marshalleck wrote...

turian councilor Knockout wrote...

Well, it was good that biotics couldn't blast through shields in ME 2, it should've been too easy and it added a little tactical approach to the combat system, anyway biotics is far from nerfed in ME 2 if you know how to to play biotic classes.

Eh. I hardly think setting up warp bombs is an interesting way to play a biotics class in ME2. And that's about it as far as "know how to play a biotic class" is concerned. 

You don't have to be a biotic god like you was in ME 1 and throw away/insta kill enemies or knock them down and finish them with ease and biotics in ME 2 like Singularity, stasis lets you disrupt shielded enemies and you could have companions that make up for your weakness so it was not that bad and what is exactly a "interesting way to play".

Modifié par turian councilor Knockout, 12 mai 2011 - 01:44 .

[termokanden]

Bozorgmehr wrote...

Bugs and other technical hickups should be fixed; I hate it when you do it right, but the game screws it up. Can't get a lock moments, enemies resisting powers, bugged cover, skywalking etc should be gone in ME3. Let's hope the extra time they've got with release in 2012 helps.

I'm saying this because it's been happening a lot to me lately. Probably just bad luck though. Yesterday I had enemies shooting at me without getting out of cover themselves, shooting through my cover, and a destroyer that got hit by Pull, made the right "I'm being Pulled" sound and yet stayed on the ground and flamed me. The day before that, skywalked twice and charged twice into the air.

I'm moaning about the rockets at the moment because I had to go through a certain mission as a vanguard (with rocket spammers), with the Shuriken and Predator as my only "long range" weapons, completely unable to use my class skill. It wasn't hard, it was just insanely annoying. I'd rather have half a billion enemies charging at me than this.

Basically I agree that ME2 did a good job of not making it too tedious, and the enemies don't have massively beefed up HP. At this point it needs some fine-tuning and bugfixes most of all.

Modifié par termokanden, 12 mai 2011 - 01:42 .

[nelly21]

marshalleck wrote...

turian councilor Knockout wrote...

Well, it was good that biotics couldn't blast through shields in ME 2, it should've been too easy and it added a little tactical approach to the combat system, anyway biotics is far from nerfed in ME 2 if you know how to to play biotic classes.

Eh. I hardly think setting up warp bombs is an interesting way to play a biotics class in ME2. And that's about it as far as "know how to play a biotic class" is concerned. 

Effective? Yes. 
Boring? **** yes. 

Well, on my Adept, I hardly do warp bombs. Instead, I bring Miranda and a sniper with shield/barrier stripping powers. All powers are set to affect entire groups. Once their protection is down, my adept goes to town on everything.

Oh, and I give him a Mattock so the protection stripping happens quickly.

Honestly, apart from simply saying, "We have decided to make Adepts the win class" I don't see what Bioware could have done differently.

[marshalleck]

Bozorgmehr wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

turian councilor Knockout wrote...

Well, it was good that biotics couldn't blast through shields in ME 2, it should've been too easy and it added a little tactical approach to the combat system, anyway biotics is far from nerfed in ME 2 if you know how to to play biotic classes.

Eh. I hardly think setting up warp bombs is an interesting way to play a biotics class in ME2. And that's about it as far as "know how to play a biotic class" is concerned. 

Effective? Yes. 
Boring? **** yes. 

BS! Anyone claiming biotics are worthless because enemies have defenses

Good thing I didn't say that then! I'm going to ignore the rest of your post as it clearly isn't directed at me. 

Modifié par marshalleck, 12 mai 2011 - 01:44 .

[marshalleck]

turian councilor Knockout wrote...

You don't have to be a biotic god like you was in ME 1 and throw away/insta kill enemies or knock them down and finish them with ease and biotics in ME 2 like Singularity, stasis lets you disrupt shielded enemies and you could have companions that make up for your weakness so it was not that bad and what is exactly a "interesting way to play".

Stasis helps the Adept a lot on hardcore+, but we need to remember that Stasis is not a part of the core Adept functionality. It was only added as a bonus power with Lair of the Shadow Broker. 

[turian councilor Knockout]

marshalleck wrote...

turian councilor Knockout wrote...

You don't have to be a biotic god like you was in ME 1 and throw away/insta kill enemies or knock them down and finish them with ease and biotics in ME 2 like Singularity, stasis lets you disrupt shielded enemies and you could have companions that make up for your weakness so it was not that bad and what is exactly a "interesting way to play".

Stasis helps the Adept a lot on hardcore+, but we need to remember that Stasis is not a part of the core Adept functionality. It was only added as a bonus power with Lair of the Shadow Broker. 

It hardly matters since SMG's/ shotguns can destroy shields easily.

Modifié par turian councilor Knockout, 12 mai 2011 - 01:59 .

[Ghost Warrior]

"Don't make ME3 too hard "
Why not? If it gets too hard for you,you can always decrease the difficulty.I am sure casual will still be a walk in the park. But for those who want more challenge than ME2 insanity could give,we need a more difficult game. As for me,I can't say I really care,because I get used to any difficulty pretty fast.

[marshalleck]

nelly21 wrote...

marshalleck wrote...

turian councilor Knockout wrote...

Well, it was good that biotics couldn't blast through shields in ME 2, it should've been too easy and it added a little tactical approach to the combat system, anyway biotics is far from nerfed in ME 2 if you know how to to play biotic classes.

Eh. I hardly think setting up warp bombs is an interesting way to play a biotics class in ME2. And that's about it as far as "know how to play a biotic class" is concerned. 

Effective? Yes. 
Boring? **** yes. 

Well, on my Adept, I hardly do warp bombs. Instead, I bring Miranda and a sniper with shield/barrier stripping powers. All powers are set to affect entire groups. Once their protection is down, my adept goes to town on everything.

Oh, and I give him a Mattock so the protection stripping happens quickly.

Honestly, apart from simply saying, "We have decided to make Adepts the win class" I don't see what Bioware could have done differently.

Don't you see though that everything you're doing here to make your Adept work is external to the class? Personally I feel like that's kind of a design problem with the class, even though technically yes the adept can successfully beat the game on the highest level just like all the others. 

[Bozorgmehr]

[quote]marshalleck wrote...

Eh. I hardly think setting up warp bombs is an interesting way to play a biotics class in ME2. And that's about it as far as "know how to play a biotic class" is concerned. 

Effective? Yes. 
Boring? **** yes. 

[/quote]

BS! Anyone claiming biotics are worthless because enemies have defenses [/quote]

Good thing I didn't say that then! I'm going to ignore the rest of your post as it clearly isn't directed at me. [/quote]

Actually you did. Warp is one out of five powers available and hardly the most effective - but if you only use Warp(bombs) then yeah it's pretty boring. 

[marshalleck]

Says the guy whose videos prominently show of warp bombing as a primary tactic. We've been over this before Boz and I don't intend to indulge it again. If your only contribution to this thread is arguing with a strawman then I'm just not going to respond. 

Modifié par marshalleck, 12 mai 2011 - 01:51 .

[Sailears]

marshalleck wrote...

Curunen wrote...

^And that's why it's best to minimise warp bombs and stick to pull/throw among others.

To do what? Make bad guys stand up so you can shoot at them like a gimped soldier? 

I think there must be a better solution than almost entirely negating the strengths of an adept on hardcore/insanity. And before you bother to say anything useless like L2P, I've beat ME2 on insanity with an adept. 

Don't get uptight, I'm not the sort of person who would say "L2P" or such nonsense.

I'm sure you are aware there are a multitude of (very effective) ways to play any class, and while warp bombing could be considered the most effective for an adept, it is certainly the most boring.

Personally I find pull/throw combos and multiple pull field disabling to be not only more fun, but also surprisingly effective. Add in the odd stasis/singularity here and there, and you can enjoy flying through most encounters without resorting to multiple warp bombs.

Especially when you consider some of the dlc weapons (mattock GPS) capable of removing majority of defences without the need of stripping powers (overload/incinerate...), it is very possible to adapt the playstyle considerably.

[Someone With Mass]

marshalleck wrote...
The power of the biotics is not an issue--in other words, the amount of weight you can lift and throw, the size of a singularity, or the blast radius of warp. It's the question of whether they are almost entirely negated by enemy defenses. 

Well, it was made like that because they felt that biotics in ME1 were very overpowered when Shep could just knock everyone out with one biotic attack.

[marshalleck]

Right. Stasis and Mattock rock, but it's not like they rock any less in the hands of any other class. I mean honestly, the Mattock is so overpowered it's really not your adept kicking ass, it's the Mattock soloing each level with your character along for the ride.

[Someone With Mass]

The only biotic powers I really enjoyed in ME2 were Charge and Dominate. The rest of them were just for show.

[marshalleck]

Someone With Mass wrote...

marshalleck wrote...
The power of the biotics is not an issue--in other words, the amount of weight you can lift and throw, the size of a singularity, or the blast radius of warp. It's the question of whether they are almost entirely negated by enemy defenses. 

Well, it was made like that because they felt that biotics in ME1 were very overpowered when Shep could just knock everyone out with one biotic attack.

As someone who played an assault rifle adept and a singularity vanguard in ME1 I really grok the problem with biotic balance in ME1. I'm just saying I think there could be a better solution in ME3. Personally I think a good compromise would be to allow biotics to lock down and control opponents but without also doing damage at the same time. Then you still get the CC abilities, but still have to do all the killing via Shepard and friends. Perhaps have some defenses affect biotics (like barrier for example) while others would have standard vulnerability. How does armor plating make one immune to a gravity well singularity anyway? I understand the idea here is gameplay balance as opposed to lore-based rationales, but the side effect of that is you might as well have only one type of defense (with multiple layers or varying strength) as there's little differentiation between barriers, armor, and shields from a gameplay standpoint.

Modifié par marshalleck, 12 mai 2011 - 02:03 .

[Someone With Mass]

To lock down and control enemies? Stasis and Dominate. Ta-daa.

[Sailears]

marshalleck wrote...

Right. Stasis and Mattock rock, but it's not like they rock any less in the hands of any other class. I mean honestly, the Mattock is so overpowered it's really not your adept kicking ass, it's the Mattock soloing each level with your character along for the ride.

Fair enough (although GPS happens to be my preference).
But it is there, and does allow you to mess around a lot more same as it would for any class, so the advantage is across the board and so to me not a problem.

Of course if you're talking about the class in general, I agree changes are necessary - the same applies for most classes (except perhaps the infiltrator which I find to be decently varied).

[marshalleck]

Someone With Mass wrote...

To lock down and control enemies? Stasis and Dominate. Ta-daa.

Neither of which are Adept abilities. See what I am saying? My point here is that the Adept is almost uniquely disadvantaged in ME2 on the higher levels. I am not saying the class is broken or unplayable, but it does have some inherent problems which I feel the other classes are not subject to, at least not to the same degree. I shouldn't have to rely on DLC weapons or biotic powers to perform on the same level as my vanguard who destroys the game with nothing but the base ability/weapon loadouts.

And yes, I know Dominate is not a DLC power. It's still a bonus power not normally a part of the Adept's toolset.  

Modifié par marshalleck, 12 mai 2011 - 02:11 .

[Someone With Mass]

marshalleck wrote...
Neither of which are Adept abilities. See what I am saying?

Perhaps making the class so reliable on powers wasn't such a hot idea. Especially when they're almost all the same, unlike the Engineer, who has a wide variety of powers to use.

[turian councilor Knockout]

marshalleck wrote...

Someone With Mass wrote...

To lock down and control enemies? Stasis and Dominate. Ta-daa.

Neither of which are Adept abilities. See what I am saying?

Pull, Throw, Shockwave and singularity can all be very valuable Crowd Control powers, it's not the power that is the problem for you it's the shields and how is shields exactly a problem they go down in seconds, then maybe biotics classes isn't for you.