80 réponses à ce sujet

[KnightofPhoenix]

Xilizhra wrote...
I endorse this idea (assuming you get to pick the gender of both).

Hmmm, I don't think it's unfeasible. The character can still have a very similar personality regardless of gender.
But of course, you'd need 4 voice actors for 2 characters. So yea, not likely to happen.

[Foolsfolly]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

Foolsfolly wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

New game in Tevinter. With class (and maybe race) being the Origins. Warrior / rogue would be a commoner who can rise to power to become say one of Tevinter's greatest generals and a trusted friend of the Archon, butting heads with a few magisters in the process (and others wanting to use you for political leverage). If mage, you start off as a pupil to a Magister, and rise through the ranks to become a Magister lord if not an Archon.

That would be awesome. And If it happens, it would finally wipe the bad taste DA2 left in my mouth. But it probably won't happen.

One of the two other classes, Rogue or Warrior, should be a slave origin. A Warrior could be forced by one magistair to fight for amusment in an arena, for example, being nothing but gladitoral enjoyment. The Warrior will kill their way out. A rogue can be more domestic based, which allows for the Rogue to escape through cleverness perhaps poisoning, assembling the tools to escape unseen in the night, or anything in-between.

I'd prefer the Rogue be the slave, obviously, but a gladitor origin would be nice too.

Me and Ryzaki had a somewhat similar idea.

The game would have two main characters. A mage apprentice aspiring to be a magister, with his / her personal slave, who is the other main character.  If the player picks the mage origin, he plays as the apprentice, with the slave as his companion (and the player chooses how he treats him). If the player picks warrior / rogue, he gets to be the slave of the mage apprentice, but the relationship grows out to become a friendship where the mage listens to his friends advice (and could be manipulated). In essence, each character has a defined set personality if you pick the other.

The duo's adventure starts when the apprentice's Magister master falls victim to some political conspiracy in the senate and both the apprentice and the slave are forced into hiding. Throughout their trials, they can develop a bond with each other, as they try to restore their position in Tevinter. Which leads to a real rise to power as the apprentice and slave try to uncover the conspiracy, slowly discover that it was much bigger than they thought, get involved in politics, and then emerge as one of the two most important figures in the Tevinter Imperium. With the slave possibly becoming a general, and the apprentice becoming a respected Magister lord and a candidate to becoming Archon.

Of course the game should have more than one companion. But I think special emphasis would be made of the relationship between the master and slave, which can evolve into something more equitable if the player wishes it (romance even, why not). I admit, I am basing the premise on the real history of Abd al-Rahman al-Dakhil, the founder of the Umayyad emirate of Spain, and his servant and friend Badr.

If they do another set character like in DA2, I'd really dig this one. If not I'd like the three different class origins. But as set character pieces go that's far and away better than Hawke's.

I especially like the focus and evolution on companion relationship as part of the story. And the political intrigue which is always fun.

I second this, as long we're having a set character.

[Xilizhra]

Would you mind terribly if I stole this idea for a rise to power-centered fanfic idea I had in mind for Tevinter? I actually had the idea after hearing you say how lame the DA2 one was.

[KnightofPhoenix]

@ Foolsfolly

Yea it would require a more framed narrative for it to work. I would hope that there are more choices involved in this than DA2 though. I personally think that some choices (or how you go on about them) should sour the relationship between the apprentice and slave, if not completely end it.

Xilizhra wrote...

Would you mind terribly if I stole this idea for a rise to power-centered fanfic idea I had in mind for Tevinter? I actually had the idea after hearing you say how lame the DA2 one was.

No of course not!
And if you  need any help, brainstorming and all that, I am always happy to help

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 16 mai 2011 - 02:51 .

[Foolsfolly]

I have nothing against set characters. There are many many games and even RPGs that do great with set characters. If BioWare focused on story and the character development (they did character work really great in DA2, plot not so much) they could release a great game. Truly outstanding.

And the master/slave relationship is beautiful! It's morally horrible to modern audiences. It's a complex relationship of loyalty, respect, admiration, and at same time servitude, revilement, and anger.

A complex story of choice, loyalty, personal gain, and political intrigue can be set with this. BioWare only needs time to pull it off and a focused plot where the game (story, plot, characters, and setting) is reactive to the player/NPC.

It could really be great.

Really great idea, KoP and other guy that began with a 'S'.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Foolsfolly wrote...

I have nothing against set characters. There are many many games and even RPGs that do great with set characters. If BioWare focused on story and the character development (they did character work really great in DA2, plot not so much) they could release a great game. Truly outstanding.

Geralt of Rivia in The Witcher is one such example.

He is a set character, and you don't have control over his personality, but you have control over his perception of both himself and the world. There is even a quest "Identity" that spans several chapters that deals with Geralt's views (and people actually ask him and care about his opinion).

I prefer PCs like Origins because they give me more freedom (even if sometimes illusionary) and flexibility. But a set character can be awesome if done right.

And the master/slave relationship is beautiful! It's morally horrible to modern audiences. It's a complex relationship of loyalty, respect, admiration, and at same time servitude, revilement, and anger.

Exactly and I think it should add nuance to the whole slavery issue, which I believe is excessively villified (not all forms of slavery were the same). Master / slave bonds can and do happen. Many slaves were freed by their masters and out of loyalty, they affiliated themselves to their master's family as clients.

The historical example I provided had a master and slave traverse all sorts of dangers on their own from Syria, all the way to Spain and together founded of the most brilliant civilizations in the medieval era (the slave was freed and became commander of the Emir's armies).

A complex story of choice, loyalty, personal gain, and political intrigue can be set with this. BioWare only needs time to pull it off and a focused plot where the game (story, plot, characters, and setting) is reactive to the player/NPC.

It could really be great.

Really great idea, KoP and other guy that began with a 'S'.

Ryzaki

But such a thing would require a lot of resources. It may not be even feasible, I don't know.

[Foolsfolly]

It would be expensive with 4 PC voices. But that's not impossible. I point to Saint's Row 2 which had 6 PC voices to choose from. It's totally possible to pull off 4 voices. And even more economical to assign gender to the roles, of course that runs the risk of backlash depending on which gender gets which role on top of backlash on the player not having the choice of gender.

But if it had to be economically designed than assigning genders would fix that. Another would be to have a smaller group of companions which seems to the general trend of BioWare games anyway (Origins had 9 to 7 in DA2, ME2 had 12 and ME3's confirmed to have a much smaller group of companions).

The Magister can simply cultivate a group of advisers and senators who act as NPCs while at the same time assemble a close team of specialists and the best of the best. I don't think a 'bodyguard' like character has a place here, even though that's the most obvious, I think having a NPC serve that role will free up room on the roster for more interesting characters, especially since the slave NPC/PC can totally play the bodyguard role more emotionally anyway.

Exactly and I think it should add nuance to the whole slavery issue, which I believe is excessively villified (not all forms of slavery were the same). Master / slave bonds can and do happen. Many slaves were freed by their masters and out of loyalty, they affiliated themselves to their master's family as clients.

It would also add some much needed depth to Tevinter which is just like the Batarans in the ME game. They're ruthlessly evil slavers who have no redeeming qualities at all. In games about choice and full of morally gray areas Tevinter and the Batarans always stick out as 'just complete monsters' while everyone else can various shades of good, evil, right, wrong, and in the middle.

[Xilizhra]

Actually, batarians are better off than Tevinter; you actually get to meet some decent ones.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Foolsfolly wrote...

It would be expensive with 4 PC voices. But that's not impossible. I point to Saint's Row 2 which had 6 PC voices to choose from. It's totally possible to pull off 4 voices. And even more economical to assign gender to the roles, of course that runs the risk of backlash depending on which gender gets which role on top of backlash on the player not having the choice of gender.

But if it had to be economically designed than assigning genders would fix that. Another would be to have a smaller group of companions which seems to the general trend of BioWare games anyway (Origins had 9 to 7 in DA2, ME2 had 12 and ME3's confirmed to have a much smaller group of companions).

The Magister can simply cultivate a group of advisers and senators who act as NPCs while at the same time assemble a close team of specialists and the best of the best. I don't think a 'bodyguard' like character has a place here, even though that's the most obvious, I think having a NPC serve that role will free up room on the roster for more interesting characters, especially since the slave NPC/PC can totally play the bodyguard role more emotionally anyway.

I support the limiting of companions. 6 is a good enough number for me. And like you said, important NPCs can also be present and we can have an expanded relationship with them.
As for the bodyguard, the slave can be that, at least initially. In fact, when in hiding, the slave could have all the street smarts and practicallity that the more educated and intellectual mage would have little clue of. So the apprentice becomes more dependent on his slave, at least in the first part of the game.

It would also add some much needed depth to Tevinter which is just like the Batarans in the ME game. They're ruthlessly evil slavers who have no redeeming qualities at all. In games about choice and full of morally gray areas Tevinter and the Batarans always stick out as 'just complete monsters' while everyone else can various shades of good, evil, right, wrong, and in the middle.

Exactly and I greatly dissaprove of both villifications (especially the Tevinter one because it's used to justify a failing system).

This would be a chance of not only exploring Tevinter society, but of also exploring the opposite ends of the spectrum, with a magister apprentice and a slave and their relationship.

[Foolsfolly]

We met like one Batarian who said humans were evil and responsible for a plague and then when Shepard goes out of the way to help him says, "Well, I guess humans aren't that bad."

Not really a great guy, or decent, just begrudgingly willing to say humans aren't bad once Shepard saves his life without having any personal gain in it (guy doesn't reward Shepard or anything, it's truly optional...actually you steal his wallet if he dies so there's a reward for letting the guy die).

The only other Batarian I can think of that wasn't just pure evil were the ones who had the doctor hostage which is already on a bad foot since they've taken a pacifist doctor who's trying to help them at gunpoint and would have killed him had Shepard not shown up.

I actually think the Tevinters have it better since, strictly speaking, Fenris is Tevinter.

[Xilizhra]

The only other Batarian I can think of that wasn't just pure evil were the ones who had the doctor hostage which is already on a bad foot since they've taken a pacifist doctor who's trying to help them at gunpoint and would have killed him had Shepard not shown up.

Garrus also mentions a batarian on his team once, and there are a few other batarians we meet who are criminals, yes, but don't seem like irredeemable scumbags.

I actually think the Tevinters have it better since, strictly speaking, Fenris is Tevinter.

That's like saying Talitha is a good representative of batarians.

[Foolsfolly]

Exactly and I greatly dissaprove of both villifications (especially the Tevinter one because it's used to justify a failing system)

Ugh, I know! Mages can't be free because they'll become masters and enslave the non-mages. This is worse than the current situation where Human nobles have all the power, riches, and freedom while non-noble humans, all dwarve, and every elf everywhere are enslaved by caste and economic systems?

There's no freedom in these games unless you're a noble. Which is fine! I love the castless dwarf Warden the best because of that very fact! So who really cares if the guy ruling over the masses has a different color hat on.

It's a non-argument unless you're already in power, in which case, LOCK THOSE MAGES UP QUICKLY!

[Foolsfolly]

That's like saying Talitha is a good representative of batarians.

Your point is pointy but I must stress that one is a race while the other a nation and Talitha isn't a batarian. It's a small point but I think it matters. I have no evidence to say they treat human slaves worse than batarian slaves but I think the whole racial hatred between the two would agree with it.

Both cases, Tevinter and Batarian, are under explored and they only exist as evil slavers. This is counter to the dwarves and qunari who are the melee warrior races and the krogan and turian who are the ME warrior races. They've all gotten more depth to them other than just being the Tough Elite Sub-Boss fights in the games.

[UrsulaCousland]

I think personally I'd rather see Tevinter than Orlais, but I especially like the idea of a war breaking out between the two...that is just LOADED with potential. And, since both have been so extensively mentioned, I'd think either nation would need its own game or multiple expansions.

As far as expansions for DA2 go - I could see exploring the other Free Marches cities, perhaps in the time gaps at years 3 and 7, during Hawke's time as a mercenary/smuggler, or perhaps in the aftermath of What Happens in Kirkwall. Any of these could be very cool if given enough development resources.

And, who knows? Bodhan's and Sandal's plans could change. Can you imagine the bad juju if a magister got a hold of Sandal and cracked his hold over his powers? Tragic, and potentially scary!

[Xilizhra]

And, who knows? Bodhan's and Sandal's plans could change. Can you imagine the bad juju if a magister got a hold of Sandal and cracked his hold over his powers? Tragic, and potentially scary!

He'd probably use "not enchantment" and fuse the magister into a rock or something.

[The Baconer]

GREATEST. NATION.

Being able to reconquer the rest of Thedas would be endlessly pleasing, though I doubt Bioware would allow us to make a choice of that scope.

[Osena109]

Knight of Dane wrote...

Expansion: Starkhaven
Next title: Orlais

why starkhaven  never understood the apeal of sabastian veal or why would we want to reclaim his  principality for him

[happy_daiz]

Well, it is one of the big 3 cities in the Free Marches. I would hope that if there is a story/location DLC, that it also includes Tantervale (in addition to Starkhaven). I don't want much, though, do I? 

I didn't like Sebastian at first, but he's kinda grown on me. I don't take him out much, but he does have some funny lines if in the right company. I think he's going to be my next LI, if I can bring myself to rivalmancing him. Hehe. 

Honestly, I think Sebastian should have been part of the main story, but he probably wasn't finished in time for the initial release.
 

[Foolsfolly]

I wouldn't mind a Starkhaven DLC, to be honest. Despite a whole game in the Free Marches I don't exactly feel like we've explored anything at all. It made Kirkwall feel static and boring while at the same time making the whole Marches boring.

I'm actually glad DA2 didn't take place in Ferelden, Orlais, or Tevinter. Those places feel like they'd be interesting to visit and if they were the setting for DA2 they would have been terribly boring and lifeless places.

So a DLC in an interesting Marches city-state would add life and interest to this small backwater hellhole.

...that somehow is important to the Templars and somehow a small mage revolt can spark a worldwide event.

....not like there's fantasy oil under it.

[Rifneno]

I doubt we'll see a Starkhaven DLC centered around Sebastian, if only because it would likely require you to have the Exiled Prince DLC.  Having one DLC dependent on another will affect its sales.  Especially if the dependent DLC on question is about a self-righteous douchebag. 

[football_punk64]

I never finished reading, but I had a thought. Considering the high level cap Bioware gave us, I have a suspicions that they will give us some substantial DLC's. Any takers on this theory?

[HSHAW]

football_punk64 wrote...

I never finished reading, but I had a thought. Considering the high level cap Bioware gave us, I have a suspicions that they will give us some substantial DLC's. Any takers on this theory?

I'll take that bet.

[Rifneno]

football_punk64 wrote...

I never finished reading, but I had a thought. Considering the high level cap Bioware gave us, I have a suspicions that they will give us some substantial DLC's. Any takers on this theory?

Define substantial. Will we get a lot of different DLC's? Almost certainly. Will they be quality ones like ME2's, or garbage like Witch Hunt? Only time will tell on that.

[football_punk64]

Rifneno wrote...

football_punk64 wrote...

I never finished reading, but I had a thought. Considering the high level cap Bioware gave us, I have a suspicions that they will give us some substantial DLC's. Any takers on this theory?

Define substantial. Will we get a lot of different DLC's? Almost certainly. Will they be quality ones like ME2's, or garbage like Witch Hunt? Only time will tell on that.

Well, me thinks that based on the fact that Completionist players are making it to lvl 25 tops and the cap is 50 (I've confirmed this through altering saves) thats leaves a lot of room. Theoreticly, you could play the length of the kirkwall story all over again and still have a lot of level up room. I think we will see something similar to  DA:O Awakening, along with multipul other smaller DLC's.

  Now we can speculate whether they will be the same quality as ME2 or the cheesy ones like its predecessor, But only Bioware truly knows. I don't know if bioware was with EA when they made the origins DLC's. But, due to recent trends by looking at ME2 DLC's there very well is hope in some phenomenal DLC's. Just look, Thus far they have only really come out with equipment pack ( other than the exiled price), If you look at ME 2 trends they have come out with a DLC every 2 or 3 months. It's looking like a similar time period for DA2 so we can only home for the best.

  I believe EA and bioware have a plan with the DA series, and I believe there is good things to come, and they will surprise the fans in a pleasant way!