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[TheAzureVanguard]

So in ME1 that Kahoku guy says that Cerberus was originally a Black Ops group WITHIN the Human Systems Alliance.

Then in ME2 and other works claim that Cerberus was never a part of the Alliance and is radical pro Humanity terrorist group...

Whch is the ofifical story Bioware? Was ME1 just a mistake? 

[Ramus Quaritch]

They probably had links with some high-ranking elements within the Alliance. This makes sense as a lot of people in the Alliance, particularly the military, were worried about defending humanity from the Turians after the First Contact War (before humanity became familiar with the Citadel Council and the galactic order) and that they would have ties to a human supremacist group such as Cerberus. I'm sure somewhere along the line (as ME1 shows), Cerberus went too far and the Alliance cut ties to it due to its terrorist methods.

[Zulu_DFA]

Cerberus officially* was never part of the Alliance.

* keyword.

Unofficially, it was essential ever since its founding.

[Zulu_DFA]

Ramus Quaritch wrote...

somewhere along the line

When exactly?

Ramus Quaritch wrote...

(as ME1 shows),

All that ME1 shows is that Ceberus has some serious backing on a level that can entirely cut a whole rear admiral off all options, even when a platoon of Alliance marines is missing.

[Ramus Quaritch]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Ramus Quaritch wrote...

somewhere along the line

When exactly?

I don't know for sure.  My guess is that some (but obviously not all) Alliance officials cut ties to Cerberus after they stole the antimatter from an Alliance starship (which I believe was where they became well known).

Ramus Quaritch wrote...

(as ME1 shows),

All that ME1 shows is that Ceberus has some serious backing on a level that can entirely cut a whole rear admiral off all options, even when a platoon of Alliance marines is missing.

I agree.  Mass Effect: Ascension also shows that they have a lot of agents and sympathizers in the Alliance.  And ditto to the above post.  Bureaucracy is a mess in general.  It would only take one or a few Cerberus agents or sympathizers to slow down Kahoku.  Also the classified nature of Banes and his research would probably have made it harder for Kahoku to get answers.

Modifié par Ramus Quaritch, 12 mai 2011 - 04:37 .

[Xilizhra]

Thankfully, it looks as though the Alliance will shortly be purged of the Cerberus cancer.

[Reapinger]

Just prop up a chair and wait for ExtremeOne to get here.

[Someone With Mass]

Xilizhra wrote...

Thankfully, it looks as though the Alliance will shortly be purged of the Cerberus cancer.

Had so much potantial, too.

Could be humanity's STG, but nope. Must have human dominance at all costs and all that crap.

[Dean_the_Young]

TheAzureVanguard wrote...

So in ME1 that Kahoku guy says that Cerberus was originally a Black Ops group WITHIN the Human Systems Alliance.

Then in ME2 and other works claim that Cerberus was never a part of the Alliance and is radical pro Humanity terrorist group...

Whch is the ofifical story Bioware? Was ME1 just a mistake? 

ME2 and other works never claim Cerberuus was never part of the Alliance. Neither depiction is wrong, as there is no mutual incompatibility.

Cerberus was created by the Alliance as a darker-than-black ops group. During this time TIM was an influential figure within Cerberus. Cerberus itself, in so much as it was known as all, was only publicly known as a subtle terrorist group and it's true affiliation a carefully guarded secret. Cerberus's public presence is as a radical pro-Humanity terrorist group as deemed by the Council and Alliance, despite the Alliance's secret ties.

Some short time before ME1, The Illusive Man usurped control of the group and Cerberus went 'rogue', as depicted by Admiral Kohaku. As the galaxy and Alliance at large never knew of Cerberus's true alignment, the split was largely never noticed or known except in so much that counter-terrorism experts suspected a change of leadership and priorities. (The Cerberus codex.)

Currently, Cerberus remains a radical pro-Human group, still deemed terrorist by the Council and Alliance.

[Moiaussi]

Zulu, if Cerberus is part of the Alliance, why does TIM say otherwise as part of his soliloquy in Ascension?

Quote: "The Alliance was a clumsy, blunt instrument, weighed down by laws, convention, and the crushing weight of public opinion"

If Cerberus is part of the Alliance, it would also be part of that 'clumsy blunt instrument' and just as weighed down. Either that, or the statement would have been false in that the Alliance wouldn't be weighed down, since they would have Cerberus to get around those 'limitations.'

TIM's own words speak against your theory.

[Moiaussi]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

ME2 and other works never claim Cerberuus was never part of the Alliance. Neither depiction is wrong, as there is no mutual incompatibility.

Cerberus was created by the Alliance as a darker-than-black ops group. During this time TIM was an influential figure within Cerberus. Cerberus itself, in so much as it was known as all, was only publicly known as a subtle terrorist group and it's true affiliation a carefully guarded secret. Cerberus's public presence is as a radical pro-Humanity terrorist group as deemed by the Council and Alliance, despite the Alliance's secret ties.

Some short time before ME1, The Illusive Man usurped control of the group and Cerberus went 'rogue', as depicted by Admiral Kohaku. As the galaxy and Alliance at large never knew of Cerberus's true alignment, the split was largely never noticed or known except in so much that counter-terrorism experts suspected a change of leadership and priorities. (The Cerberus codex.)

Currently, Cerberus remains a radical pro-Human group, still deemed terrorist by the Council and Alliance.

Alternatively, Kahoku could have gotten the wrong idea either due to the level of Cerberus sympathy in the Alliance or by way of outright misinformation, just as Cerberus sets things up in ME2 to give the Alliance and Council the impression that Shepard has been working with them longer than he has.

If Kahoku starts asking questions about black ops group that never was part of the Alliance, he would come across similarly to how Shepard sounds talking about Reapers and it is quite easy to see how he could get nowhere.

[Zulu_DFA]

Ramus Quaritch wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Ramus Quaritch wrote...

somewhere along the line

When exactly?

I don't know for sure.  My guess is that some (but obviously not all) Alliance officials cut ties to Cerberus after they stole the antimatter from an Alliance starship (which I believe was where they became well known).

That seems to be too soon after the foundation.

And it's actually a standard black op:

Cerberus needs antimatter.

Alliance wants to give them the Antimatter.

But the Alliance can't just literally give it to anybody or lose it or anything (think weapons-grade plutonium IRL).

That's why the Alliance has to stage a phony terrorist attack, but only TIM and his Alliance cronies know it's phony, while the regular Alliance redshirts and Cerberus mooks think they're fighting for real. And they do fight and die for real, just so the Alliance  could say: "Ooops, pesky terrorists stole our antimatter", while in fact the antimatter is just where the Alliance wanted it in the first place - at TIM's disposal.

Deniability.

[Reapinger]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Ramus Quaritch wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Ramus Quaritch wrote...

somewhere along the line

When exactly?

I don't know for sure.  My guess is that some (but obviously not all) Alliance officials cut ties to Cerberus after they stole the antimatter from an Alliance starship (which I believe was where they became well known).

That seems to be too soon after the foundation.

And it's actually a standard black op:

Cerberus needs antimatter.

Alliance wants to give them the Antimatter.

But the Alliance can't just literally give it to anybody or lose it or anything (think weapons-grade plutonium IRL).

That's why the Alliance has to stage a phony terrorist attack, but only TIM and his Alliance cronies know it's phony, while the regular Alliance redshirts and Cerberus mooks think they're fighting for real. And they do fight and die for real, just so the Alliance  could say: "Ooops, pesky terrorists stole our antimatter", while in fact the antimatter is just where the Alliance wanted it in the first place - at TIM's disposal.

Deniability.

Keepin' my mouth shut

Modifié par Reapinger, 12 mai 2011 - 05:44 .

[Zulu_DFA]

Reapinger wrote...

I bet you're having a ball with all the bin Laden speculation IRL too.

I'd like to brief you on his current whereabouts but that's a "real-life socio-political issue", and as such is not permitted.

[Moiaussi]

I am still waiting for an explaination as to why TIM is thinking himself that Cerberus isn't part of the Alliance in Ascension if it really is still part of the Alliance.

[gogman25]

Reapinger wrote...

Just prop up a chair and wait for ExtremeOne to get here.

Hey, I think Cerberus sucks and Miranda looks like M.J!
There, that should speed up the process, he can hear these things from a good few miles away.

[Nathan Redgrave]

Read Evolution by any chance?

Jack Harper (the Illusive Man) and his comrades were working toward "the cause" during the First Contact War. They were working closely with General Williams on Shanxi, whose previous backstory is now called into question by his resignation motive being stated as not being able to get on-board with trying to kiss up to the Citadel Council. Harper himself could be considered an Alliance black-ops man at the time. Cerberus was definitely affliliated with the Alliance at some point, although Kahoku's "a few months back" estimate of when they broke away is a bit less trustworthy at this point.

[ExtremeOne]

Oh poor alliance fans are you shocked that Cerberus was part of the alliance. Bioware needs to come clean on the whole Cerberus / alliance issue as well why is Cerberus after Shepard in 3 .

[Seboist]

mrsph wrote...

ExtremeOne wrote...

Oh poor alliance fans are you shocked that Cerberus was part of the alliance. Bioware needs to come clean on the whole Cerberus / alliance issue as well why is Cerberus after Shepard in 3 .

Because Cerberus is jerks

Cerberus is a good organization that does charity work.

[CroGamer002]

michaelrsa wrote...

Seboist wrote...
Cerberus is a good organization that does charity work.

Thanks to that tax write off for Teltin Facility. It was real nice of them giving all those homeless biotic children a home like that.

This is both hilarious and sick.

[Seboist]

michaelrsa wrote...

Seboist wrote...
Cerberus is a good organization that does charity work.

Thanks to that tax write off for Teltin Facility. It was real nice of them giving all those homeless biotic children a home like that.

Cerberus is insuring the long term security of humanity with it's biotic program. You should be grateful.