206 réponses à ce sujet

[Spartanburger]

Seboist wrote...
When someone insults Cerberus I take it personally.

So let me get this straight.
Your taking an opinion-based discussion about a fictional group of people personally?
BFFFFFFFHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAOHGODIhaventlaughedthishardinYEARS!
Serioulsy. Thank you. I really needed that laugh.

Modifié par Spartanburger, 13 mai 2011 - 12:12 .

[Dean_the_Young]

michaelrsa wrote...

Dean_the_Young wrote...
Which in no way justifies Teltin, which is what Tela Vasir was referring to. A bit inaccurately, mind you, but then she isn't an informed figure like Shepard is.

Shepard? Informed?

Are we talking about the same Shepard who thought the First Contact War was similar to the genophage?

The same Shepard who needed to be reminded by EDI that the protheans were enslaved by the Reapers when you faced the Reaper Larve?

I wish I had your Shepard, maybe he is informed enough that Cerberus is actually justified.

Since my Shepards presumably learns things he/she experiences and hears/sees in more detail, apparently they do have a leg up. Being able to learn is a very valuable skill, yes.

[Seboist]

Spartanburger wrote...

Seboist wrote...
When someone insults Cerberus I take it personally.

So let me get this straight.
Your taking an opinion-based discussion about a fictional group of people personally?
BFFFFFFFHAHAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAOHGODIhaventlaughedthishardinYEARS!
Serioulsy. Thank you. I really needed that laugh.

Yeah I do, insulting TIM is like insulting my momma....... actually I take that back, it's WORSE than that.

[Spartanburger]

Seboist wrote...

Yeah I do, insulting TIM is like insulting my momma....... actually I take that back, it's WORSE than that.

Tim's an idiot who wants to bend over for the authorities.

Sorry... Don't know what came over mTIM IS AN ASS.

Sorry. Can't control myself.

Jeez, I need to ad a disclaimer to my siganture warning of this kind of stuI am going to tea-bag TIM's corpse.


Pardon all that, but you need to get yourself checked out. First off in thinking that TIM is Cerberus, which he is not. And secondly for actually caring for something that is simply. Not. Real.
It a game.
Cerberus does not exist in reality.
What one person says about it isn't going to insult it because it does not exist.

Go ahead and support Cerberus. It's fine to feel emotion for fictional things but don't get over worked on it. What I say about Cerberus or TIM should not affect your opinion of them/him. As such, your opinion of [insert characters I like] is not going to change my opinion of them.
It should be noted that nothing I said above the 'pardon all that' should be taken as a personal insult as I am simply trying to make a point.

Modifié par Spartanburger, 13 mai 2011 - 12:29 .

[Lapis Lazuli]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Reapinger wrote...

I bet you're having a ball with all the bin Laden speculation IRL too.

I'd like to brief you on his current whereabouts but that's a "real-life socio-political issue", and as such is not permitted.

the conspiracy theorists call him TIM Osman...

[OmegaXI]

Yakko77 wrote...

Seboist wrote...

michaelrsa wrote...

Seboist wrote...
Cerberus is a good organization that does charity work.

Thanks to that tax write off for Teltin Facility. It was real nice of them giving all those homeless biotic children a home like that.

Cerberus is insuring the long term security of humanity with it's biotic program. You should be grateful.

Yes, because the only way for humanity to advance in biotics is with death camps.

<_<

Death Camps is such a harsh phrase I prefer Post Mortal Retreat

[OmegaXI]

mrsph wrote...

Seboist wrote...

Cerberus didn't run "death camps" that's just slanderous bull**** and people need to be trained in biotics since childhood in order to use it effectively.

So am I to believe Jack was sent to a wonderful summer camp where she was not forced to kill other children in death matches?

But you have to say the later is alot more interesting and sounds like some kids would get a 'Kick' out of it.

[TheAzureVanguard]

Captain_Obvious wrote...

Kahokou tells you they were Alliance black ops that "went rogue" in his transmission after the Missing Marines quest. How they managed to do that and become so large in the process could be another problem, but I haven't seen enough info to speculate on it.

But here's the problem. The codex entry for Cerberus completely ignores this part.

It never mentions that they were a part of the Alliance or that they went "rogue". It just says that a random message (a manifesto) was sent out and that that was the start of it....

So something is off here. Like another person said its just poor storytelling on Bioware's part.  But its cool.  I just wish there weren't so many of them...

Like for instance how the HELL does Maelon know about "Repear Indoctorination"? Are you telling me the Salarians have known about the Repears all along?

[Reapinger]

TheAzureVanguard wrote...

Captain_Obvious wrote...

Kahokou tells you they were Alliance black ops that "went rogue" in his transmission after the Missing Marines quest. How they managed to do that and become so large in the process could be another problem, but I haven't seen enough info to speculate on it.

But here's the problem. The codex entry for Cerberus completely ignores this part.

It never mentions that they were a part of the Alliance or that they went "rogue". It just says that a random message (a manifesto) was sent out and that that was the start of it....

So something is off here. Like another person said its just poor storytelling on Bioware's part.  But its cool.  I just wish there weren't so many of them...

Like for instance how the HELL does Maelon know about "Repear Indoctorination"? Are you telling me the Salarians have known about the Repears all along?

Conspiracy??? Dun dun dunnnnnnnnn

[pbuck11]

[/quote]

Cerberus didn't run "death camps" that's just slanderous bull**** and people need to be trained in biotics since childhood in order to use it effectively.

[/quote]

It's camps...where people died, lots of people, shall we call it "Happy fun fun land"?

[Nathan Redgrave]

TheAzureVanguard wrote...

Captain_Obvious wrote...

Kahokou tells you they were Alliance black ops that "went rogue" in his transmission after the Missing Marines quest. How they managed to do that and become so large in the process could be another problem, but I haven't seen enough info to speculate on it.

But here's the problem. The codex entry for Cerberus completely ignores this part.

It never mentions that they were a part of the Alliance or that they went "rogue". It just says that a random message (a manifesto) was sent out and that that was the start of it....

So something is off here. Like another person said its just poor storytelling on Bioware's part.  But its cool.  I just wish there weren't so many of them...

Like for instance how the HELL does Maelon know about "Repear Indoctorination"? Are you telling me the Salarians have known about the Repears all along?

Maelon was with the Salarian Special Tasks Group, so obviously he would have access to their files on what went down on Virmire. The indoctrination bit would definitely have come up in Shepard's report, and would have had additional backup if Kirrahe and a certain prisoner of Saren both made it off-world.

As for the codex, keep in mind that it's supposed to be taken mostly as in-universe info feeds. The information on Cerberus, the Illusive Man, and the Reapers (among others) read more as if such reports would if read by civilians or standard Alliance grunts, with only reports directly related to Cerberus activities (Normandy SR-2, M-44 Hammerhead, etc.) being free from the potential B.S. info-dillution that most people are blinded with. (The entry on the Reapers just refers to them as a myth, and says nothing about them that the standard citizen wouldn't know--it gives you essentially the same info Avina does if you ask her about them.) A codex such as Reaper Indoctrination, obtained from a Cerberus research terminal, is a lot more "uncensored."

Obviously, the Alliance would look bad if any direct ties to Cerberus were uncovered, so officially, they were never affliliated in any substantial way.

Modifié par Nathan Redgrave, 13 mai 2011 - 08:52 .

[Nathan Redgrave]

pbuck11 wrote...

Cerberus didn't run "death camps" that's just slanderous bull**** and people need to be trained in biotics since childhood in order to use it effectively.

Torture isn't training. And many, many of the subjects did die as a direct result of experimental procedures they were testing out before risking them on Subject Zero. "Training" is what the Biotic Acclimation Program or the Ascension Project do. What Cerberus does is completely trainwreck the health and sanity of a biotic in an effort to draw out MOAR BIOTIC POWERZ!!!!!1111!!11!ONE!!!!

See: Subject Zero, Gillian Grayson

In ME1, it's suggested on a couple of elevator conversations involving Kaiden that humanity should have stuck to the L2 implants instead of the "weaker" (Wrex's word) L3 implants, but if you speak to Dr. Chakwas about Kaiden, you can learn that the full range of side-effects extends as far as insanity and other horrific issues (the migraines are a lucky case).

Now, tell me. What the hell use is a whole lot of biotic power if the subjects are desperately autistic to the point where they can't function properly (Gillian) or completely freaking batcrap psychotic (Jack), or suffering side effects that probably impair their combat functionality anyway (the worse-off L2 subjects)? I'll tell you how much: not much, that's how much. We'll be leashing Saarabas to our marine commanders and they'll be blasting things with unfocused shockwaves and stuff. Asari Commandos would still kick their behinds right back to the far end of Charon. Sometimes it's better to have less power and more capacity for finesse, yes? 

[pbuck11]

Agreed. Something like Tilton was basically the equvilent of the Mengele experiments.

[Moiaussi]

Shepard needs a Vacation wrote...

Cerberus is an integral part of the alliance as said before the are unofficially part of the Alliance, without the alliance Cerberus would have never gotten started Cerberus has people in all levels od the alliance and earth gov, they will dominate the galaxy at the end of ME 3

In Ascension, TIM outright says to himself that they are not part of the Alliance (not even unofficially). If they were part of the Alliance even unofficially, TIM's belief that the Alliance is weighed down by laws and public opinion and therefore useless would make no sense.

Also, how could Cerberus be humanity if they are merely a branch of the Alliance?

[alperez]

ExtremeOne wrote...

[



well we will disagree on that Shepard rather anyone likes or not was working with Cerberus in 2 so yeah they did save humanity together .  Cerberus is not evil and they sure as hell do not desserve to be rail roaded intio being bad guys in 3 . 

Considering we're now being given the plot twist that Cerberus are working with the reapers and are after Shepard saying they saved humanity with Shepard is kinda a moot point. Saying they are not evil is just plain idiocy though, evil is not defined by what ends are acheived but what you've done to acheive those ends.

If someone commits an evil act then by definition they are evil there is no grey area here, by their actions that we know about cerberus has commited numerous evil acts therefore they are an evil organisation. Their reasons and justifications for these evil actions are not to ensure humanitys survival and never have been, they want to ensure humanitys dominance which is basically the first facet of facism.

How the explanation of why Cerberus is suddenly (if that's the case) working with the reapers will only justify whether or not the storyline makes sense not whether or not Cerberus were evil or whether they've been retconned into an area that makes no sense.

Since we don't know the specifics of this storyline yet, we can't they're being railroaded into being bad guys, not to mention the simple fact that from our very first encounters of Cerberus they were already bad guys.

Your argument seems to be i like cerberus, i agree with their actions and intent therefore i am right and everyone else is either wrong or stupid or that bioware are deliberately screwing you over since the storyline doesn't go in the direction you wanted.

But you have to face up to a simple and undeniable truth, everything we've been told about cerberus, everything we know about cerberus would lead us to the possibility of the situation we may face in me3 becomeing a reality. How they integrate it into the storyline will only prove one thing, whether or not Bioware's story arc makes sense and was always the way it was intended to be, not whether or not you like it, agree with it or it went how you wanted it to go.

One last point, everything cerberus done in me2 can be summed up in one phrase (The Enemy of my Enemy is my Freind) cerberus used Shepard to acheive a goal, what that goal was and what they're intention of it we've yet to see fully.

[M-Sinistrari]

alperez wrote...

Your argument seems to be i like cerberus, i agree with their actions and intent therefore i am right and everyone else is either wrong or stupid or that bioware are deliberately screwing you over since the storyline doesn't go in the direction you wanted.

Other than missing "If *I* have to kill TIM then I'll do worster to Hackett and Anderson!!1!", you've got every single post of ExtremeOne's summarized up.

At this point I'm convinced he's either the most tenacious troll I've come across which is pretty damn impressive, or someone identifying waaaaay too strongly with a fictional group in a game.

Nothing anyone's going to say is going to change his mind.

[ExtremeOne]

M-Sinistrari wrote...

alperez wrote...

Your argument seems to be i like cerberus, i agree with their actions and intent therefore i am right and everyone else is either wrong or stupid or that bioware are deliberately screwing you over since the storyline doesn't go in the direction you wanted.

 








Other than missing "If *I* have to kill TIM then I'll do worster to Hackett and Anderson!!1!", you've got every single post of ExtremeOne's summarized up.

At this point I'm convinced he's either the most tenacious troll I've come across which is pretty damn impressive, or someone identifying waaaaay too strongly with a fictional group in a game.

Nothing anyone's going to say is going to change his mind.

   








So defending Cerberus makes one a troll . WOW  you alliance fans have been using the books and anything to defend the idea that Cerberus is evil .  As far as changing my mind Bioware will need to have a very logical reason why TIM and Cerberus turned on Shepard in 3 .  I am not a troll because I defend Cerberus . I am just one that is not afraid to speak up about them .  

[M-Sinistrari]

ExtremeOne wrote...

So defending Cerberus makes one a troll . WOW  you alliance fans have been using the books and anything to defend the idea that Cerberus is evil .  As far as changing my mind Bioware will need to have a very logical reason why TIM and Cerberus turned on Shepard in 3 .  I am not a troll because I defend Cerberus . I am just one that is not afraid to speak up about them .  

Defending Cerberus the way you do, disregarding facts and replacing them with your own unsubstantiated opinion, yeah, just makes you a troll.

Only way I can bother with reading your posts anymore is to give them the madlib treatment.  Just replace the word Alien with something like "Muggle/pepsi drinker/minority" and replace Cerberus or humanity with "Wizard/coke drinker/white people" and it's like visiting every fringe website out there without having to actually go there to read the crazy.

[Captain_Obvious]

My view of Cerberus has always been the classic "do the ends justify the means?" question. If someone thinks that the goal is to promote humanity at any cost, pro-Cerberus. If someone else thinks that the goal is to ethically promote humanity, pro-Alliance ( I realize "ethically" isn't exactly the right word here, but you get the idea). I tend to be pro-Alliance because in my opinion promoting humanity at any cost jeopardizes the very humanity that is so valued.

[Seboist]

M-Sinistrari wrote...

alperez wrote...

Your argument seems to be i like cerberus, i agree with their actions and intent therefore i am right and everyone else is either wrong or stupid or that bioware are deliberately screwing you over since the storyline doesn't go in the direction you wanted.

Other than missing "If *I* have to kill TIM then I'll do worster to Hackett and Anderson!!1!", you've got every single post of ExtremeOne's summarized up.

At this point I'm convinced he's either the most tenacious troll I've come across which is pretty damn impressive, or someone identifying waaaaay too strongly with a fictional group in a game.

Nothing anyone's going to say is going to change his mind.

The Cerberus haters are the ones who get too emotional. I've seen one guy on here pass personal judgment on people just on the count of supporting Cerberus.

[M-Sinistrari]

Seboist wrote...

The Cerberus haters are the ones who get too emotional. I've seen one guy on here pass personal judgment on people just on the count of supporting Cerberus.

I'd like to see those posts then since when it comes to people taking fictional factions with way too much intensity, I can easily think of two in particular who make the other Cerberus fans look bad.