13 réponses à ce sujet

[Saaziel]

A bit of a spoiler warning ; Mass effect 3 is rumoured to have more "funky" cover as opposed to ME2's -Crates and Chest high wall- cover design. What's been alluded so far is something akin to how "The Lair of the Shadow Broker" worked. This is of great  concern to me  because LofSb didn't worked all too well in that regard (in my opinion anyways).

Note that I'm not going on a "The sky if falling" rant , I'll wait until I've played the game before making judgement. That said the problem boils down to - Style over Function-.

Why is this in the "classes , Builds & Strategy" section ?

Simply put ; I can't work a strategy if i don't know what's cover ( And what its covering me from) & what's not cover. Combat becomes more annoying than anything and i can't appreciate how "pretty" everything is if I'm throwing a fit ,cursing at my computer screen.

Several "cover" points , specifically on the Ship portion of LotSB, can hardly be described as cover ; Shepard's body being 20-30% outside of cover. That said, you can't actually get shot but as a visual queue its very confusing . Moreover , angled cover & multi levelled areas ( like the Collector base or the initial Azure fight ) often "jukes" Shepard's aim ; Making powers hit ledges & useless doodads or missing targets completely . Stylized cover only exacerbates this problem by adding a question mark as to "where am i gonna aim once I'm out of cover" ?

I can understand why you'd want to make cover more subtle than "Crates & Chest high walls" however if it impairs game play i don't see the point.

As a side note: Enough with the camera wobble. I get it . Something exploded . You don't have to send the 3rd person view in a tumble drier to get the point across.

Modifié par Saaziel, 12 mai 2011 - 11:41 .

[Waltzingbear]

You're looking at the current system and asking how will it handle the change. This is not the case however.

Unlike a DLC, ME3 allows to recreate the entire system. Would it really be possible to blend the cover layout into the natural design of the environments without crippling the way you interact with cover? not really. That's why they're touching almost every aspect of the game though.
The cover system will have to be more dynamic, and I bet this is exactly what they're doing.

The work on the design of the game is done as a whole. Taking ME1, making guns more accurate and binding a key to take cover does not make ME2.

[Saaziel]

I understand.

Still, you have to keep in mind that they play tested LotSB , and thought it was satisfactory. It would have been perfectly fine to change 50% of stylized cover points with "standard" cover for that DLC. And highlighting this as a model for their upcoming release has me concern its all.

If anything, its better to point out flaws now; When there is still time to modify things over ,than after release when nothing can be done.

Modifié par Saaziel, 13 mai 2011 - 12:15 .

[mcsupersport]

I would take ten levels of the kind in LotSB to every one of the current run of the mill cover in ME2. You may not like it, but I loved the cover especially the outside of the ship portion. The only real issue I had was the typical Vanguard getting caught in areas he couldn't move from or charge from, but that happens in all areas with charge on occasion. Now if all you want is a perfect wall to crouch behind making you untouchable so you can calmly peek out and kill a guy and duck back in, then I have a feeling you will be SEVERELY disappointed in ME3. They have stated they are trying to make a more dynamic fight area, with rushing enemies and multiple style attackers in every group that you face. This tells me they don't want you to just sit back and hide in cover until the fight is over, they want you to move, think, be flanked, flank, and generally be a full running battle. Now we will have to wait and see if they get it right, but if you are expecting ME2 crouch and wait cover game, then be prepared to hate ME3.

[Saaziel]

Sitting back is the last thing i want.

However if they want cover to be an integral part of the game ,it would only make sense to make it functional. Otherwise i'd be fine running after Shield regens & Health pack. I mean , when i look at a piece of the Shadow broker's ship i have no idea if its cover or a useless doodad; Its this weird quasi triangular / roundish rectangle hybrid protrusion .

Frankly i think that the Electrical arc antennas are there as a testament that the design was problematic. They needed to ease up the run and added a static RPG .

But heck , if you're right , more power to ya .

[PsychoWARD23]

I thought this thread was about the box art and didn't realize what was going on until about halfway in to the OP. D'oh!

However, all I think they're doing is making it so the cover seems more believable, I'm pretty sure they knocked Gears of War, bu honestly, Gears does it better than most.

[Saaziel]

I agree of course.

The problem i mentioned before is where "Style overtakes Functionality" for the sake of style.

No matter how believable they make it ,we'll always be aware that its a game (Well most of us at least). So if it comes down to crates and a solid game play versus believable Palm trees & Xmas decorations and a clusterf*** style cover mechanics. I'd much rather have my trusted crates to fall back on.

Don't get me wrong I'm not hating on the game .If they can do both , great.

Modifié par Saaziel, 13 mai 2011 - 01:53 .

[Ahglock]

I kind of want cover to be even less reliable. Like have more of the fragile cover, a log should not protect me too much from a mass accelerator weapon IMO.

[Saaziel]

Destructible cover would be very nice indeed!

Certainly it would add more strategies in regards to guns and priority targets. However i wouldn't want it turned into a "Second guessing" game. Much like , having a dumber squadmate AI might make encounters more challenging, it wouldn't make them more fun.

[Ahglock]

I am not sure if this would work on the the game play side of things, but given the weapons I kind of wish cover in games provided more of a accuracy penalty than a bullet stop benefit. Even todays guns easily penetrate most interior walls, but cover does help in that it conceals the target making shots harder to make or deflecting the shots a bit off course, and yes slowing the round a bit. When guns are more like man portable rail guns it even becomes harder to see a normal wall stopping the projectile. But I don;t know if something like that is feasible on a game play level.

So instead off a totally new mechanic destructible cover is in ME2, so if they upped that a bit more, maybe make its destruction more slow deterioration as opposed to on off and I think you could have some interesting game play dynamics. You probably don;t want to make it too common though, it just gets old if you overuse something like that.

Modifié par Ahglock, 13 mai 2011 - 04:16 .

[DeadLetterBox]

I'd like to see less cover available, and cover being made out of everyday objects. It seemed pretty subtle to me in Splinter Cell Conviction, for example. To make up for that, I think it would be nice to have portable cover. I mean, if we can make kinetic barriers that protect a ship from a giant mass accelerator round (if only one or two of them) could we not make a portable, one-use cover device? Like the barriers the Collectors used, except powered by battery (hence the disposability.)

You could limit availability like medigel to make sure it didn't make the game a cakewalk, but it would allow for more open areas.

[Golden Owl]

I would like to see more of a mixture of covers, ie. destructibility, natural formations, the hardy crates, etc... Personally, I enjoyed Shadow Broker and the odd angles and ranged covers, but then again as an Infiltrator, cloaking was a boon for me in that situation.

[Bozorgmehr]

I agree with the OP's critique regarding using powers and weapon while in cover. There are a lot of 'places' where you seem to pop up randomly (sometimes up, sometimes sideways) and powers, although well-aimed, hit some 'invisible' cover or wall.

I hope there's less cover in ME3, but I also hope it's less buggy than using cover in ME2. Oh, and the damn power-using-sniper-zoom crap has to go too!

[termokanden]

PsychoWARD23 wrote...

However, all I think they're doing is making it so the cover seems more believable, I'm pretty sure they knocked Gears of War, bu honestly, Gears does it better than most.

It did it better than most. Been playing the Gears 3 beta and I really wish it had changed more. Other people seem to disagree. I have my hopes up for the 4 player coop though!

Anyway I am also a bit worried about the stylized cover for the reasons mentioned above.