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"the single most important character in the world of Dragon Age"


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#1
Eternalist

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 So, let's discuss the importance of Hawke in Thedas. Throughout the marketing and previews for the game, it was often stressed that Hawke was not only and extremely badassed individual, but as "the single most important character in the world of Dragon Age".

Now, I for one do not understand how Hawke's deeds lend much truth to this title. Sure, she/he went into the Deep Roads deeper than anyone had before, but that was with great assistance as a partner that assisted in funding the expedition. It seems likely the expedition would have failed if not for Hawke, but the partial success of the operation should not be acredited to Hawke solely. Recovering the Lyrium idol may have been what drove Meredith insane years later, but that was only the catalyst for the Mages - Templar conflict. No doubt the Grey Warden expedition headed by Nathaniel may have turned up some interesting intel had they gotten all the way to the Primeval thaig, but that detail is minor at best. 

Secondly, while Hawke tpk'ing the Arishok and his hipster crew may have more or less ended the attempted invasion, but it seems likely Orisno and Meredith would have (albeit with some difficulty) been able to do the same. These actions quite rightly so gave Hawke the title of Champion of Kirkwall, but once again that doesn't make him particularly important outside of The Free Marches or Par Vollen. 

Thirdly, the Mage - Templar conflict. Regardless of personal decisions, Anders destroyed any chance of compromise by nuking the Chantry and kicked off a civil war about the Thedosian circles. Hawke played some part in this by chosing a side, but the fact that Orsini panics and signs his death warrant to either side makes the choice itself more or less irrelevant. Meredith effectively turns on you even if you side with her, claiming that you're more deceitful than those infiltrating blood mage rapists she believes are EVERYWHERE. The Lyrium Idol, as stated earlier made these rising tensions worse by riding Meredith paranoid at the very least, but this was only an indirect effect of the Deep Roads Expedition that Hawke only saved from being a complete botch job. You could argue that taking any part in the mini conflicts constitutes as choosing as thus makes it all worse in the long run, and sitting back does little to make **** worse.

Lastly, the side and companion quests may have some influence on his standing in and around Kirkwall, but that hardly set Hawke to be the most important person in Thedas. If importance is measured by side quests performed, I'm sure that makes Mass Effect 1-era Shepard to be more important than the Reapers. Deciding to, say, assist Merrill in reconstructing the Eluvian could be pretty damn important if it bears fruit, but that may just link in to the Morrigan sub-plot in Origin's endgame/ Witch Hunt DLC. Assisting Anders with his godawful Sela Petrae (read: Salt Peter/ Potassium Nitrate) and Dragon **** quest. It was no doubt added to add some shock factor when he reveals the purpose, but ultimately occured regardless so Anders was much more important in this. If anything, Hawke was at best an assistant in Ander's vendetta against Templars in general.

Anyway, a lot of that turned into incoherent rambling towards the end, but I just wanted to make a point that Hawke wasn't really as important as marketing suggested; especially not in comparison to say, the Warden/Warden-Commander who with some assistance ended a blight and (optionally) helped the Darkspawn to become a sentient species.

tl;dr- Hawke, I am disappoint.

Modifié par Eternalist, 12 mai 2011 - 11:42 .


#2
LobselVith8

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I get the feeling that the title of "most important character" in this storyline should be attributed to Anders, who proactively changed the fate of the mages across the continent, while Hawke merely reacted to the events unfolding around him. Whether you love him or you hate him, Anders' actions are going to have an impact on the future of Thedas.

#3
Beerfish

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That was the whole point of Varrics talking to Cassandra, she assumed that the things were as they were due to the actions of the champion but in the end it was a series of events not totally related to the champion.

We really can't say for sure though how important he or she was as we don't know what would have happened if he wasn't there. For all we know the Arishok could be sitting in the viscount chair.

#4
Beerfish

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LobselVith8 wrote...

I get the feeling that the title of "most important character" in this storyline should be attributed to Anders, who proactively changed the fate of the mages across the continent, while Hawke merely reacted to the events unfolding around him. Whether you love him or you hate him, Anders' actions are going to have an impact on the future of Thedas.


I would agree with this point of view.  Anders, for good or bad threw the gates of chaos wide open.

#5
primero holodon

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the way I role played my warden and my Hawke, I'd have to say that Hawke would end up being a far more important character, considering my Warden was a Dalish elf who would have gladly turned his back on Fereldan and let human society burn if the dalish weren't also threatened by the blight. My Hawke on the other hand, was at least partly willing to get involved in the conflicts of Thedas. 

#6
Sussurus

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It's just a marketing ploy and product brand change.
From Dark fantasy to action adventure, become a hero gain some levels fight a boss.

The true powers were M, O, A, F, E, A.. next it'll be the empress of Orlais and the leader of the white chantry.

Modifié par Sussurus, 13 mai 2011 - 01:07 .


#7
jonesd

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Butterfly effect I would say says Hawke was very important. But yes, I would say Anders was more "important." Well.. atleast in the sparking of the war.

While this debate can be interesting, it usually turns into a whine fest saying Hawke is useless. I thought one thing that made DA2 interesting was companions that actually had a life outside of Hawke.

#8
Boiny Bunny

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1) Deep Roads Expedition.

Was this significant? Did this change the world? Have an impact on a vast number of people? I don't believe so. If Hawke had never existed, perhaps Bartrand would have been killed, or perhaps he would have easily found another sap to replace Hawke and succeeded just the same. The treasure found down there was just enough to make Hawke a noble in Kirkwall, but certainly not the richest. Really, the way I see it, the lyrium idol was the only thing of any significance to come out of the expedition - and again, this had nothing to do with Hawke personally. Another thug mercenary could have cleared the way to the ancient thaig and lost the idol to Bartrand just the same.

2) Qunari Situation

Hawke attempts to keep the peace through a few minor lapdog quests for the Arishok and the Viscount. These amount to absolutely nothing, and war breaks out anyway. Hawke (and his/her party) personally kill about 100 Qunari, then deal with the Arishok. Remember that there were only 300 or so Qunari that landed to start with. Take off the deserters and others that had died, and you are left with a grand total of around 150 or so Qunari in Kirkwall when they attempted to take over. Had Hawke never existed, the Templars/Mages would have utterly crushed the Qunari - though perhaps taken a little longer, and not saved as many nobles. So what difference did Hawke's existance make? Some extra nobles were maybe saved. Maybe no difference at all.

3) Mages vs Templars

Again, Hawke runs around like a lapdog, doing some fairly meaningless quests in an attempt to keep the peace. It fails utterly regardless of which side you support or how you deal with the quests - due to Anders - who is really the star of the show.

Whether Hawke supported war or peace, his/her actions amount to nothing next to Anders. Anders is the reason that the war started, and spread across Thedas.

So, if Bioware want to claim that the person who is responsible for the 'mage chantry' war is the most important person in the world of Dragon Age (even more important than say Andraste herself? Really, Bioware?) - they're really talking about Anders rather than Hawke, from my point of view.

The game was a personal story. Hawke was the person, the person did some things, and was basically overshadowed by the actions of his/her companions at all points of the story in terms of action significance and impact on the world.

#9
SnakeStrike8

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Hawke isn't the most important character of the game. Anders is, and DA 3 will begin with Cassandra discovering that Varric was lying, and the Champion of Kirkwall and Anders are, in fact, the same person.
And I'm totally serious about this. Totally.

#10
KnightofPhoenix

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What I find even more mind boggling is Cassandra thinking for some reason that Hawke can prevent the war.

When his resume consists of failing to prevent 2 conflicts (Qunari vs Kirkwall, Mage vs Templars) from erupting in the same city 3 years apart from each other, I can't possibly imagine why Cassandra would think that Hawke is the perfect mediator they need. If anything, she should reach the exact complete opposite conclusion.

#11
Addai

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Eternalist wrote...

 So, let's discuss the importance of Hawke in Thedas. Throughout the marketing and previews for the game, it was often stressed that Hawke was not only and extremely badassed individual, but as "the single most important character in the world of Dragon Age".

Now, I for one do not understand how Hawke's deeds lend much truth to this title. 



(husband)

All true but you are not factoring in the +20 to Charisma vs. mages and templars role playing buff that they are giving the character as a plot device for finishing Act 3.

:D

Modifié par Addai67, 13 mai 2011 - 06:09 .


#12
Rolenka

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I haven't finished DA2 yet, but I'm going to say the most important character is... Flemeth.

Given that both the Warden Commander and Hawke would be dead without her. And Morrigan ran off to go remake the world or something with the Child.

So, obviously. Flemeth.

Modifié par Rolenka, 13 mai 2011 - 06:10 .


#13
Dave of Canada

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KnightofPhoenix wrote...

What I find even more mind boggling is Cassandra thinking for some reason that Hawke can prevent the war.

When his resume consists of failing to prevent 2 conflicts (Qunari vs Kirkwall, Mage vs Templars) from erupting in the same city 3 years apart from each other, I can't possibly imagine why Cassandra would think that Hawke is the perfect mediator they need. If anything, she should reach the exact complete opposite conclusion.


Well, Hawke is worshipped by the mages / templar for some reason. Maybe she expects Hawke to go infront of the marching Templar / Mage armies and simply say "Stop!".

#14
Addai

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quote
I haven't finished DA2 yet, but I'm going to say the most important character is... Flemeth.
quote


(husband)

Or the Divine.. When you consider the everyday influence plus the extra ordinary abilities like calling for Divine Marches and such.

Modifié par Addai67, 13 mai 2011 - 06:13 .


#15
KnightofPhoenix

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Dave of Canada wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

What I find even more mind boggling is Cassandra thinking for some reason that Hawke can prevent the war.

When his resume consists of failing to prevent 2 conflicts (Qunari vs Kirkwall, Mage vs Templars) from erupting in the same city 3 years apart from each other, I can't possibly imagine why Cassandra would think that Hawke is the perfect mediator they need. If anything, she should reach the exact complete opposite conclusion.


Well, Hawke is worshipped by the mages / templar for some reason. Maybe she expects Hawke to go infront of the marching Templar / Mage armies and simply say "Stop!".


If one side worships him, the other despises him. So he can't be that mediator. Especially not if he sided with the Templars, as it's made explicit that the mages hate him for it.

#16
OldMan91

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If one side worships him, the other despises him. So he can't be that mediator. Especially not if he sided with the Templars, as it's made explicit that the mages hate him for it.

The plot demands that the PC character of Dragon Age 2 be regarded as "important" and the only one who can stop the conflict. It makes the player feel like the character they've been playing all this time isn't an idiot after everything that's happened and can still be of some use.

#17
GenericPlayer2

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It seems obvious that the most important person is Flemeth.

#18
0x30A88

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LobselVith8 wrote...

I get the feeling that the title of "most important character" in this storyline should be attributed to Anders, who proactively changed the fate of the mages across the continent, while Hawke merely reacted to the events unfolding around him. Whether you love him or you hate him, Anders' actions are going to have an impact on the future of Thedas.

This.

Though Hawke will possibly be important in solving this as (s)he was at the center of it when it all started.

Modifié par Gisle Aune, 13 mai 2011 - 07:42 .


#19
Sejborg

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Beerfish wrote...

That was the whole point of Varrics talking to Cassandra, she assumed that the things were as they were due to the actions of the champion but in the end it was a series of events not totally related to the champion.


So Cassandra was also fooled by Biowares marketing? :?

#20
Plaintiff

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Hawke has the power to convince one side in a continent-wide war to back down. I'd say that makes him pretty important.

Does he DESERVE to be important? That's an entirely different question. His importance may be the result of a lie, but he is important nonetheless.

#21
Rifneno

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GenericPlayer2 wrote...

It seems obvious that the most important person is Flemeth.


This.  Right now, the most important living character in DA is Flemeth.  If we're going most important character period in DA, Andraste.  Assuming Andraste and Flemeth aren't the same being.  Hawke?  Hawke probably doesn't even rank top ten at the moment.

#22
Rifneno

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Plaintiff wrote...

Hawke has the power to convince one side in a continent-wide war to back down. I'd say that makes him pretty important.


Cassandra thinks s/he might, but I seriously doubt it.

#23
Plaintiff

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Rifneno wrote...

Plaintiff wrote...

Hawke has the power to convince one side in a continent-wide war to back down. I'd say that makes him pretty important.


Cassandra thinks s/he might, but I seriously doubt it.

Honestly? So do I. Assuming they don't skip the war entirely and have DA3 go straight to the aftermath, I'm betting it'll fall on the shoulders of an all-new protagonist to work things out. That's actually how I'd prefer it.

But 'importance' is a fairly abstract and subjective concept. Hawke is the most important man in Thedas at the end of the game only because other people think he is, and that's really all it takes. Whether or not the player agrees is up to them. I can understand some people being disappointed, but I would imagine by now that most anyone over the age of fiteen would understand that advertisement is prone to hyperbole.

Hawke can never be the most important  person in Thedas anymore than my dishwashing detergent can give my wineglasses a 'flawless shine'. Bioware has to keep upping the ante for each game, the very nature of sequels demands that the next character be even bigger and better than the last, no matter how awesome they apparently were.

Modifié par Plaintiff, 13 mai 2011 - 01:44 .


#24
Beerfish

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Sejborg wrote...

Beerfish wrote...

That was the whole point of Varrics talking to Cassandra, she assumed that the things were as they were due to the actions of the champion but in the end it was a series of events not totally related to the champion.


So Cassandra was also fooled by Biowares marketing? :?


She was given some bonus items for preordering.

The funny thing is that half the people in rpgdom are sick of the 'Your character saves the world!'  and the other have complain that 'my hero didn't save the world!'

#25
comrade8472

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The most important character has to be Sandal. He's everywhere. lothering... the "camp"... denerim... kirkwall... deep roads... hawkes house... gallows...and the circle tower.

"Enchantment"