735 réponses à ce sujet

[LiquidGrape]

Shatterhand1701 wrote...

RinpocheSchnozberry wrote...

What does it matter how a woman looks, so long as she is an interesting character?

A thousand times THIS.

Does the outfit make Ashley any less kick-ass than we know she is?  Does it change her in any way?  Unless she slinks into every cutscene giving Shepard a come-hither stare or uses flirtatious comments for every other line of dialogue, I don't think her fans have much to worry about.

This freak-out over a single picture of an outfit on Ashley is the biggest example of "much ado about nothing" I've seen in a long, long time.

That's all fine and well, and I agree with the overall sentiment. Take Isabela in Dragon Age II, for example. Clearly a character with a sexual edge, but one which served the character rather than reduced her.

However, it poses a problem when the design seems to be in direct conflict with the character.
I sincerely doubt that Ashley letting her hair down and wearing skin-tight vinyl can be considered legitimate character development.

[Blitzkrieg0811]

I too feel that changing Ash's character model for ME3 even though it was the same in ME1 and ME2 is unjustified. Spectre or no.

This thread is going to decent into all-out flamewar soon 0.o

[Ship.wreck_]

Ship.wreck wrote...

AdmiralCheez wrote...
ASHLEY IS NOT, NOR WILL SHE EVER BECOME, A SUBMISSIVE SL*T. 

First off how is that submissive? I didn't say she walks up to Shepard and says, "I'll do whatever you want just take me back!" And how is making a small effort to appear more attractive in any way shape or form "sl*ty". Should I not take showers now, because doing so makes me not smell, and not smelling is for sl*tty people, just like wearing hight heals, shaving your unibrow, showing a little cleavage, taking your shirt off at the beach, and wearing deodorant?

 IF SHE DOES, THAT IS VERY BAD WRITING AND A BETRAYAL OF HER CHARACTER.

No change is a betrayal of her character if there's a reason / explanation for it. She could come back and betray herself by becoming army barbie, betray shepard by willingly deffecting to the reaper side and betray the galaxy by trying to help destroy it. Bioware wouldn't be betraying her character as long as the changes were worked into the plot logically, and not just magically whoops, she's a bad guy now. She can betray herself and others as muc has she wants. And I expicitly stated that she would be betraying herself if she did this, and would probably regret it, and hopefully learn from the experience and grow from it. And just for the record this was never intended as a "I hpe the plot devolps as", it was just a made up on the spot thing to demonstrate that it's POSSIBLE for her character to evolve naturally through the plot of the story, and as long as that's the case, it's ok.

 I AM TYPING IN ALL CAPS SO YOU GET IT.  ALSO, I THINK MY SHIFT KEY IS STUck oh there we go.

That's freaking awesome.

No.  Ashley is a great character because she is absolutely blunt and 100% true to herself.  She doesn't try to impress anyone, nor hide who she is, ever.  Besides, she read poetry and wore pink armor--that was her girly outlet.  Listen to her dialogue--she ENJOYS being tough!

Good point, a big part of Ash has always been that she doesn't bs you. But then that doesn't mean she hasn't been hiding a slightly more girly demeanor down below, maybe even from herself as much as anyone else. We all pretend to be something we're not A LITTLE BIT.

...She wouldn't dress like a tramp because she hates tramps and doesn't want to be one.

Define term "tramp", "sl*t", "wh*re" etc...

EDIT: what happened? You went from moderate, "That's a little too much, but she can change if she want's too as long as it's adequetly explained in the plot" to harline, "She should be exactly the same Ashley from ME and her personallity and appearance can never change no matter what!" real quick.

[Ship.wreck_]

^ Oops... I thought I hit edit, but I actually hit reply... sorry...

[James2912]

Uhm I like Ashleys character model in ME1 and I think its a little bit annoying how she went from tomboy to hot mama. But to say she dresses like a tramp is just stupid! I mean move to afghanistan or something where you'll be more comfortable about how women dress.

[PMC65]

LiquidGrape wrote...

Ah, yes. The good old "previously self-respecting woman vying for a man's attention by tarting up and forsaking any sense of personal integrity" scenario.

When is dressing up "tarting"? I don't have a problem with her maximizing her outward assets to stop Shepard in his tracks ... I think we call that dating. Ah, dating ... when women are hot and men wear clean clothes!

As to forsaking any self of sense .... I have countless Gal & Guy pals that gave up a little or lot of themselves for a person they liked. It does happen more often than not ... hell, my past relationship saw pieces of me scattered on the highway of "love" ... so if all she does in this relationship is slap on makeup, tight clothes and let her hair down in the "forsaking" act .. that would be sweet and way ahead of the game!

My ex (also known as the devil) required my blood for her "destroy PMC65" rituals, carried a voodoo doll in my likeness that she named "Posthumous", used my pride & self-esteem as her napkin after eating unicorns & puppy dogs .... you get the picture. 

And for the record, she isn't tarting up for just any man - She is tarting up for guddam SHEPARD! Saviour of the Citadel! Or as Ashley herself called him .... A GOD!!!!! I would tart up for him too ... er, if I wasn't him.  

[AdmiralCheez]

Ship.wreck wrote...

EDIT: what happened? You went from moderate, "That's a little too much, but she can change if she want's too as long as it's adequetly explained in the plot" to harline, "She should be exactly the same Ashley from ME and her personallity and appearance can never change no matter what!" real quick.

I was always opposed to the Ashley redesign.  I am NOT opposed to decent character development.  However, "Ashley feels jealous of Miranda and was hiding who she really was" is NOT decent character development, because 1.) we know Ash doesn't hide and 2.) Ash shoots the things she doesn't like in the face.

Garrus' harsher demeanor and disillusionment make sense because of the whole Archangel thing, and the Archangel thing only makes sense because of all the frustration he would have undergone after Shepard died and the Citadel completely ignored the real threat.  His frustration makes sense because he already hated beurocracy and injustice; hell, that's why he joined Shepard in the first place!

Garrus' hatred of beurocracy and injustice is, therefore, the core of his entire character.  Remove that, and the above events would not have shaped him as they did.  Likewise, Ashley's guts and honesty are the core of her character, and everything has to build off of that.  Would a gutsy, honest woman suddenly change everything about herself to impress a man?  No, especially if that man showed up out of the blue after she'd mourned him for two years only to say, "Hey, guess what?  I'm with Cerberus now."

She's not going to try to win you back, pal; you will have to win her.

[Dominus]

That was almost poetic, Admiral. I approve.

Modifié par DominusVita, 14 mai 2011 - 12:20 .

[Halo Quea]

LOL! This thread is really something. Bioware won't allow us to provide armor for our squad mates, they took that element away from us. But they won't give certain squaddies any armor of their own to wear either.

They took barriers away from Biotics, which never made any sense because it would have made a better explanation for why some of the Biotics in ME2 didn't have armor. But to take armor away from a Soldier just to satisfy an aesthetic (that none of us asked for) is really strange.

Or maybe it's all just to get us to buy appearance packs. If THAT'S the reason why they took inventory armor from us then that's just really sad.

[AdmiralCheez]

@PMC65: The problem here is that Ashley and Shepard aren't dating. She's a Spectre now, and she's out to save the galaxy. She and Shep may still be in love, but now is not the time to put on the little black dress and go swing dancing. I mean, f*ck's sake, that's a goddamn Reaper overhead!

[Pedro Costa]

Ship.wreck wrote...

First off how is that submissive?

She'd be denying her own preferences in an attempt to please Shepard just because he couldn't keep it in his pants.
How is that *not* submissive?

It reeks of no self-respect/love/esteem, which definitely isn't Ash's style. As Chee said, if a man cheats on her, she wouldn't be trying to win him back, she'd be punching the living daylights out of him.
Secondly, she didn't even believe you when you told her Cerberus wasn't behind the abductions, she didn't betray her values for the man she loved (in my playthrough), yet you expect her to revert to a teenager stage just because she assumed Shepard prefered the Cheerleader look?
What if Shepard prefered Miranda for her brains/personality (as one of mine did)? Is she going to become a genius ice-queen slowly thawing to a point when she reveals her real self to you too?
What if Miranda now actually goes around in medium, Cerberus-issued, armor (hint: appearance pack #2) and dropped the overtly sexual catsuit? What's Ash pulling a Miri for?

I didn't say she walks up to Shepard and says, "I'll do whatever you want just take me back!" And how is making a small effort to appear more attractive in any way shape or form "sl*ty". Should I not take showers now, because doing so makes me not smell, and not smelling is for sl*tty people, just like wearing hight heals, shaving your unibrow, showing a little cleavage, taking your shirt off at the beach, and wearing deodorant?

Nice analogy there. Too bad it fails. A woman doesn't need makeup to look beautiful, a woman doesn't need body-tight clothes, high heels and a huge cleavage to be sexy, and she definitely doesn't need breasts you could suffocate in to be attractive, but a person does need deodorant and regular baths get rid of stench, dirtiness and germs.

And I expicitly stated that she would be betraying herself if she did this, and would probably regret it, and hopefully learn from the experience and grow from it.

She's not some teenager to fall into such moods to begin with. She's a seasoned soldier, a resolved woman and damn strong person.

And just for the record this was never intended as a "I hpe the plot devolps as", it was just a made up on the spot thing to demonstrate that it's POSSIBLE for her character to evolve naturally through the plot of the story, and as long as that's the case, it's ok.

Noone's saying they want Ash to remain a static character, what we're saying is we don't want her character to do an 180º.
Further, your "on the spot", if anything, only came to make the situation worse instead of showing a natural evolution of the character.

Good point, a big part of Ash has always been that she doesn't bs you. But then that doesn't mean she hasn't been hiding a slightly more girly demeanor down below, maybe even from herself as much as anyone else. We all pretend to be something we're not A LITTLE BIT.

That's not the point - I don't think anyone would mind seeing her with a mini-skirt and thigh-high boots if she went on, say, a date with Shepard.
People mind she's wearing makeup and wearing an unpractical, revealing suit into a battlefield. That's not the Ashley we met and talked with in Mass1 and saw in Mass2.

[James2912]

I agree with PMC65 and AdmiralCheez omg I'm so conflicted!

[PMC65]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

@PMC65: The problem here is that Ashley and Shepard aren't dating. She's a Spectre now, and she's out to save the galaxy. She and Shep may still be in love, but now is not the time to put on the little black dress and go swing dancing. I mean, f*ck's sake, that's a goddamn Reaper overhead!

Can we have her in a little black dress?

The "Dating" was in response to if she is doing this for Shepard .. The change in appearance. 

I like the new look and the old look - Either way is OK by me ... I am just glad that Ash will be back and not in a brief horizon way.

[AdmiralCheez]

PMC65 wrote...

Can we have her in a little black dress?

Only if there's swing dancing in ME3, in which case I demand Kaidan wear a tux.

The "Dating" was in response to if she is doing this for Shepard .. The change in appearance.

But she WOULDN'T change her appearance so much for Shepard (see above post).

I like the new look and the old look - Either way is OK by me ... I am just glad that Ash will be back and not in a brief horizon way.

Yeah, I'm glad she's back, too, but I'm worried it won't be Ashley we're getting.  Her original writer left, and with the redesign...  Sigh.

[Elite Midget]

Yes it is fair.

if you want this to get changed than you make this valid complaint known now instead of 2 months before the game releases. At least they still have time to fix this huge character derailment all in the same of fan service and blantant sex appeal.

[PMC65]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

PMC65 wrote...

Can we have her in a little black dress?

Only if there's swing dancing in ME3, in which case I demand Kaidan wear a tux.

The "Dating" was in response to if she is doing this for Shepard .. The change in appearance.

But she WOULDN'T change her appearance so much for Shepard (see above post).

I like the new look and the old look - Either way is OK by me ... I am just glad that Ash will be back and not in a brief horizon way.

Yeah, I'm glad she's back, too, but I'm worried it won't be Ashley we're getting.  Her original writer left, and with the redesign...  Sigh.

Ahh, my friend. The things she did for my Shepard that night pre-Ilos and the following nights aft..... oh, wait. I wasn't suppose to tell - Never mind.

[LadyJaneGrey]

PMC65 wrote...
Can we have her in a little black dress?

My Shepard will loan it to her - just for you.

[Blitzkrieg0811]

tl;dr

seriously... this entire thread... I'm not surprised that people are this passionate about this issue but goddamn... You either like her new look, you don't, or you don't care. That's really all there is too it.

[James2912]

 Breaking NEWS Bioware just changed what Ashley wears in ME due to complaints from fans! P.S. Guess where her weapon is!

Modifié par James2912, 14 mai 2011 - 12:38 .

[NKKKK]

That's not the point - I don't think anyone would mind seeing her with a mini-skirt and thigh-high boots if she went on, say, a date with Shepard.
People mind she's wearing makeup and wearing an unpractical, revealing suit into a battlefield. That's not the Ashley we met and talked with in Mass1 and saw in Mass2.

Exactly



I like the design better than the "armor"

Modifié par NKKKK, 14 mai 2011 - 12:38 .

[Elite Midget]

I don't care what she wears off the battlefield. However I refuse to accept Ashley if she's wearing that catsuit on the field of battle. To me this wont be the same Ashley I romanced and stayed loyal to. No, instead she'll be Miranda 2.0 which I, and any self-respecting Ashley Fan, never asked for.

[AdmiralCheez]

PMC65 wrote...

Ahh, my friend. The things she did for my Shepard that night pre-Ilos and the following nights aft..... oh, wait. I wasn't suppose to tell - Never mind.

That was in bed.

I'd wear a Wonder Woman costume for my boyfriend if he asked me, but not in public.  If he expects me to change who I am on a day-to-day basis, however, I'm dumping his ass.  Why?  Because if he doesn't love me for who I am, then what the hell did he fall in love with in the first place?

[Blitzkrieg0811]

James2912 wrote...

wow, rule 34 acts fast these days...

[PMC65]

LadyJaneGrey wrote...

PMC65 wrote...
Can we have her in a little black dress?

My Shepard will loan it to her - just for you.

I like your Shepard!

[AdmiralCheez]

Elite Midget wrote...

I don't care what she wears off the battlefield. However I refuse to accept Ashley if she's wearing that catsuit on the field of battle. To me this wont be the same Ashley I romanced and stayed loyal to. No, instead she'll be Miranda 2.0 which I, and any self-respecting Ashley Fan, never asked for.

Holy sh*t, Elite, is that really you?  Because you're actually making sense today and I might actually agree with you!