735 réponses à ce sujet

[Elite Midget]

theelementslayer wrote...

Meh, be pessimistic. its their game, I dont think the hair or makeup is bad at all. However the ME team I think has learned lessons from the fans, they gave Miri a combat suit in a DLC pack. They probably arent going to repeat the same mistake again. Itll probably be her casual attire. And if not meh, its a game, im not gonna be all up in arms if one of the characters suits is unrealistic. Want to know something else unrealistic. Element Zero. THere I said it 

So I'm being pessimistic after I just listed their two latest games that did the exact thing people like you said wouldn't happen and that we should just wait and hope Bioware gets the hint? That's sad.

If we don't make ourselfs heard early enough than it will change nothing. That's why we must continue making it known to Bioware that not all their fans are sex-deprived idiots and we wont stand for this Character Assassination in their attempt to sell sex.

Modifié par Elite Midget, 14 mai 2011 - 05:18 .

[Ship.wreck_]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

And that, Shep.wreck, is a moderate, sensible, and tolerable opinion :3

That's what my opinion has always been :|

That said, it's not tolerable... it is THE correct opinion

[Ship.wreck_]

PMC65 wrote...

Ship.wreck wrote...

I don't like her new boobs. Makes me think she's going to have a body just like Miri's and I believe in the saying that variety is the spice of life.

...boobs.

I agree with this ... Ash should not have Miri's breasts ...

Thankyou! We want different breasts! On each girl! A veritable buffet of boobs to choose from, or mix on one plate!

[Ship.wreck_]

James2912 wrote...

I think to be fair they should increase Shepards package if they are going to increase Ashleys boobs. Because shep must have giant balls of steel to do the things he does. lol

Will they swing and bounce like a newton's craddle in his crotch? Because I'm all for that.

Clack, clack, clack, clack, clack...

[James2912]

Ship.wreck wrote...

James2912 wrote...

I think to be fair they should increase Shepards package if they are going to increase Ashleys boobs. Because shep must have giant balls of steel to do the things he does. lol

Will they swing and bounce like a newton's craddle in his crotch? Because I'm all for that.

Clack, clack, clack, clack, clack...

They guddamn better! And they MUST set off citadel security!!!!!

[Rykimaruh]

It's about time, Ashley looked like a man in ME1. If you deny it, I got bad news for you...

Also, please refrain from bringing "realism" as an excuse. After all this is a sci-fi (fantasy to be exact, since some will argue that certain features might exist in the future) game in the first place.

[The Unfallen]

Rykimaruh wrote...

It's about time, Ashley looked like a man in ME1. If you deny it, I got bad news for you...

Also, please refrain from bringing "realism" as an excuse. After all this is a sci-fi (fantasy to be exact, since some will argue that certain features might exist in the future) game in the first place.

Yeah, well, a good percentage of us prefer realism to high-heels and lolspandex...

[InvincibleHero]

Ship.wreck wrote...

Shadowrun1177 wrote...
I really don't see the problem with makeup that you seem to have, FemShepard can wear make up, Liara wears makeup, Jack wears makeup, Miranda wears makeup. I can understand people's complaint about her outfit even if I don't personally have problem with it and it also wouldn't bother me if Bioware decided to change it before release to something heavier like Miranda's dlc armor for example. If Ashley is softened a little by wearing makeup and letting her hair down whats the issue.

FemShep Shouldn't wear it either, Jack shouldn't wear it either, Liara shouldn't wear it either. Actually with Liara's new desk job it doesn't matter.

The problem is that it's contradictory to Ashley's character. That's the whole point. No one ever said make up sucks in general.

And even if it weren't contradictory to her character: YOU DON'T WEAR MAKEUP IN COMBAT PERIOD. You just f#$%ing don't. Would you put on makeup for a serious workout? Yeah, and that's massivly less effort than you would exert fighting for your life.

Like I said, I don't freaking care if she wears it in her personall life, or even if she's just wearing it now to get Shepard's attention in a scene or two as part of the plot, or any other of a myriad of potential reasons she might put it on. But if she just is wearing all the time just because, it's both contradictory to her character AND ridiculous from a logical perspective.

You do know there are permanent make-up proceedures done today on this Earth. Imagine what they have in the tech-rich environemnt of a futuristic setting. It isn't put animal products on manually type of deal I would imagine.

[Bluko]

TheKillerAngel wrote...
If you're trying to somehow attack the credibility of my position based on that (with the implication that I somehow objectify women because I appreciate the TR games) I know the history of Lara Croft and Tomb Raider pretty well. However, I think it would be a bit presumptuous for me to assume that, so I'll assume this is all in good faith.

I was trying to get at more of the irony of how what essentially happened to Lara Croft to begin with, seems to be happening with Ashley now.

TheKillerAngel wrote...
With the upcoming TR game she's almost barely recognizable, save for the face. This has split some fans, with one camp being for the redesign and others against.

I've played a few of the Tomb Raider games breifly, but never really found them compelling enough to finish. Then again I'm not a fan of platformers/puzzle games so that's probably why. I think Lara's new look is a vast improvement, cause even with her various redesigns in the past she still more or less looked like a model. Now she actually looks like someone who might be an archaeologist/adventurer. It's nice instead of trying to make her more "pretty", they are trying to make her more "real".

TheKillerAngel wrote...
What I'm seeing is that there are two groups of people who have different criticisms about Ashley's design. One is like you, saying that it is out of character. I never really got to know Ashley well in my (very few) playthroughs of ME1, so that could be a very valid point.

 

Eh I think these vids prove it being a bit OOC for Ash.

Ashley on dressing
Ashley on men drooling over women

Seems a bit odd for Ashley to stoop to the thing she generally disapproves of.

TheKillerAngel wrote...
Stock body models were used for Ashley and Kaidan in ME1. It is entirely possible that the artists who designed Ashley intended her to be slightly more endowed but did not devote resources to that in ME1.

True. But don't you think if they really wanted to change Ashley's look they would have done it in ME2? In ME2 she's still the same in every regard even after 2 years. Kind of curious how she changes that much in a matter of a few months since ME3 takes place shortly after ME2.

If I were to take a stab at what was going on I'd say there were few gamers out there who complained Ashley/Liara weren't hot enough in ME1. I remember a few comments to that effect on various videos saying they were fugly or too plain looking. In fact I'm almost certain that's why they created Miranda in the first place. I saw plenty of comments on early trailers for ME2 of guys thanking Bioware for creating Miranda to essentially replace Ashley. And now it seems that because Miranda probably won't be in the ME3 Squad they're "redesigning" Ashley so the guys that enjoyed Miranda still have something to look at. (Which isn't hard to believe since Ashley is saved like 70% of the time in ME1 playthroughs.)

My only true problem with this is that Ashley really shouldn't even be close to resembling Miranda to begin with. I mean if for nothing else other the fact that Miranda is designed to be perfect. So Ashley just happens to be the same proportions as the perfect woman? Come on now.

I don't mind a little eye candy here and there in a game, but frankly too much just gets silly to the point of being laughable more then anything else. Uh yeah Bioware those bouncing bettys you put in are nice and all but I'm really more interested in just playing the game thanks. I'd rather not have to try and convince myself this game isn't being made in part as ****** material for certain audiences.

Modifié par Bluko, 14 mai 2011 - 06:19 .

[Shadowrun1177]

Bluko wrote...

TheKillerAngel wrote...
Stock body models were used for Ashley and Kaidan in ME1. It is entirely possible that the artists who designed Ashley intended her to be slightly more endowed but did not devote resources to that in ME1.

True. But don't you think if they really wanted to change Ashley's look they would have done it in ME2? In ME2 she's still the same in every regard even after 2 years. Kind of curious how she changes that much in a matter of a few months since ME3 takes place shortly after ME2.

Ok I'm gonna bring up a point that was thrown at me earlier in this thread to counter my opinion about ME2 Ashley, Kaidan and pre-Shadow Broker Liara not getting updated looks from ME1. That it would be a waste of resources to update a character who was only in the game for a cameo appearance. I personally like Ashley's new softer appearance and didn't like the fact they seemed to have gotten ignored for appearance updates in ME2.

Modifié par Shadowrun1177, 14 mai 2011 - 06:25 .

[InvincibleHero]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Ship.wreck wrote...

That's exactly what she would do if this all went down in ME. But if she's put through enough trauma, and she really want's Shepard that bad (and if she tried that already and it didn't work), she might give girly a shot. Which would be a betrayal of herself, and would be wrong, and hopefully she realizes that and becomes a better person through the bitter experience, and maybe see's fit to be just a little more girly in general because maybe it turns out she didn't like supressing that girlyness as much as she felt she needed to all along...

ASHLEY IS NOT, NOR WILL SHE EVER BECOME, A SUBMISSIVE SL*T.  IF SHE DOES, THAT IS VERY BAD WRITING AND A BETRAYAL OF HER CHARACTER.  I AM TYPING IN ALL CAPS SO YOU GET IT.  ALSO, I THINK MY SHIFT KEY IS STUck oh there we go.

Maybe she realizes she doesn't need to act the tough girl all the time to get by in her probably man-centric proffession. Maybe she becomes girly because she becomes MORE confident.

No.  Ashley is a great character because she is absolutely blunt and 100% true to herself.  She doesn't try to impress anyone, nor hide who she is, ever.  Besides, she read poetry and wore pink armor--that was her girly outlet.  Listen to her dialogue--she ENJOYS being tough!

See, Ash is the kind of girl who would go to the beach in a pink swimsuit, but not because she wanted to be sexy or girly--no, she just likes the color pink.  If someone flirted with her, she'd flirt back, but she wouldn't go around shoving her boobs in people's faces, and she wouldn't hesitate to curbstomp anyone who went too far.  She's confident of her identity, and anyone who has a problem with it had better get the f*ck out of her way.  She wouldn't dress like a tramp because she hates tramps and doesn't want to be one.

Who knows. But again, that's all hoping against hope that, her appearently near tottal role reversal, is given some good reason by the plot and not just magiced up.

I'd rather she retain her original personality so that I could just ignore the stupid new character model.

EDIT: CGG's idea would make more sense and give an excuse for comedy.

Awful lot of assumptions about a person we saw very little of in ME1. You know always in combat soldier ranks. We have no idea what she would be like outside the battlefield. She seems honest and compassionate, but also hints at a wild side. Nothing says she wouldn't dress up to the nines to impress someone or to make herself feel good. She's a soldier yes but woman first.

Where does submissiion come in. I quite missed that. She looks like she is clearly in charge by appearance and demeanor. I don't see oversexualized but a confident woman.

As much as people like to think, we do not know better than BW what direction to take their characters and IP. Don't people just enjoy games, books, movies anymore without thoroughly vivisecting it. Big deal they changed Ashley which is their right. Deal with it as it is unlikely to change. If you have this many objections as some keep obsessively posting over and over then don't buy the game. If something so minor could cause that much displeasure it couldn't be worth the anguish.

Women are not mercurial and constantly re-inventing themselves. Perish the thought. She is human and people can and do change.

[Halo Quea]

Elite Midget wrote...

theelementslayer wrote...

Meh, be pessimistic. its their game, I dont think the hair or makeup is bad at all. However the ME team I think has learned lessons from the fans, they gave Miri a combat suit in a DLC pack. They probably arent going to repeat the same mistake again. Itll probably be her casual attire. And if not meh, its a game, im not gonna be all up in arms if one of the characters suits is unrealistic. Want to know something else unrealistic. Element Zero. THere I said it 

So I'm being pessimistic after I just listed their two latest games that did the exact thing people like you said wouldn't happen and that we should just wait and hope Bioware gets the hint? That's sad.

No, nobody at Bioware is listening.  I don't think they've been listening to us for the last 3 years now.   When you think of all the wish lists that fans have created and the modest improvements that we've asked for, and they instead they come up with THIS.  Something we didn't even ask for, something that not even the pubescent minds that seem to approve asked for.

Bioware must have been thinking, "Yeah, we need to attract a wider audience to this game.  Now since a new audiece wouldn't know who Ashley Williams is anyway,  we'll just bring her back all new and improved . Doll her up with a catsuit, give her bigger knockers, smear tons of cake on her face, and give her absolutely NO ARMOR because we wouldn't those new gamers to miss all that extra silicon we've pumped into this woman.  And if the old ME fans still want to see her in armor, then they'll buy Appearance Packs because they're suckers."

[TheKillerAngel]

Halo Quea wrote...

Elite Midget wrote...

theelementslayer wrote...

Meh, be pessimistic. its their game, I dont think the hair or makeup is bad at all. However the ME team I think has learned lessons from the fans, they gave Miri a combat suit in a DLC pack. They probably arent going to repeat the same mistake again. Itll probably be her casual attire. And if not meh, its a game, im not gonna be all up in arms if one of the characters suits is unrealistic. Want to know something else unrealistic. Element Zero. THere I said it 

So I'm being pessimistic after I just listed their two latest games that did the exact thing people like you said wouldn't happen and that we should just wait and hope Bioware gets the hint? That's sad.

No, nobody at Bioware is listening.  I don't think they've been listening to us for the last 3 years now.   When you think of all the wish lists that fans have created and the modest improvements that we've asked for, and they instead they come up with THIS.  Something we didn't even ask for, something that not even the pubescent minds that seem to approve asked for.

Bioware must have been thinking, "Yeah, we need to attract a wider audience to this game.  Now since a new audiece wouldn't know who Ashley Williams is anyway,  we'll just bring her back all new and improved . Doll her up with a catsuit, give her bigger knockers, smear tons of cake on her face, and give her absolutely NO ARMOR because we wouldn't those new gamers to miss all that extra silicon we've pumped into this woman.  And if the old ME fans still want to see her in armor, then they'll buy Appearance Packs because they're suckers."

I don't think its fair to say they put "tons of cake on her face." First, Femshep can put on more makeup than Ashley. Second, I go to a university where some girls really use the makeup and no, not by a long shot does Ashleys new look come anywhere close to some of the people I see.

Modifié par TheKillerAngel, 14 mai 2011 - 07:41 .

[TheKillerAngel]

Another thing about Ashley - she is a Alliance marine in ME1/2 and her clothes and styling thus have to be within regs. If she is a spectre in ME3 her uniform and style is not going to be bound by the same standards. SF personnel are not required to shave or wear the same uniforms as standard Army infantry.

[Admoniter]

At first I convinced myself that I would be okay with the outfit if it was a casual one. however, I'm starting to dislike it more and more, give it to Miranda or Samara, it works with them... as casual outfits. I don't really see it working for Ash, she doesn't seem the type for a spandex suit. Unless ofcourse she is off on some awsum undercover mission.

[DeadLetterBox]

The infamous side-boob, which was the same for Ash, femShep, and Liara with the exception of skin color, was a side view of a rather generously endowed woman. It really seems, the more I read, like the main problem a lot of people have with the new look is that Ashley is the Madonna and Miranda is the ****. There are exceptions, but that's the overall impression. Apparently, good girls don't show off their figure or wear makeup.

Wearing makeup is not a sign of a lack of confidence in oneself. Wearing clothing that shows off your figure is not a sign of lack of confidence either. If you are from a culture where both of those things are acceptable and reasonably common (and from a glance at Emily Wong and Gianna Parasini I'd say that both are true of Alliance culture) they're just stylistic choices. Style changes.

I really, really hope BioWare puts in an option where you can tell Ash you think she looks like a tramp now. Makeup or not, she would totally kick you into next week.

[Hyper Cutter]

The only issue is the outfit, really. The breast thing seems to be the result of getting a unique model (instead of sharing one with every female human NPC in the game), and I don't really see any problem with her letting her hair down (also, she's wearing very little makeup, especially compared to what Shepard can)

kylecouch wrote...

Ah, yes "Get over it" the infamous term used when people think they are right without question.

...We have dismissed that claim :innocent:

[DeadLetterBox]

Hyper Cutter wrote...

The only issue is the outfit, really. The breast thing seems to be the result of getting a unique model (instead of sharing one with every female human NPC in the game), and I don't really see any problem with her letting her hair down (also, she's wearing very little makeup, especially compared to what Shepard can)

kylecouch wrote...

Ah, yes "Get over it" the infamous term used when people think they are right without question.

...We have dismissed that claim :innocent:

I agree that the outfit doesn't look like the sort of thing that Ash would wear into combat.  Something closer to ME2 femShep's armor seems much more in character for her.

[Nathan Redgrave]

Rykimaruh wrote...

It's about time, Ashley looked like a man in ME1.

 
There was a good reason for the way she looked in ME1.

Also, please refrain from bringing "realism" as an excuse. After all this is a sci-fi (fantasy to be exact, since some will argue that certain features might exist in the future) game in the first place.

Realism and believability are important factors. When anything can happen, it's hard to care what does. The best fantasy/sci-fi stories are invariably the ones that have firm grounding in realism (ironically), because this makes it easier to swallow the unrealistic aspects--they're provided a seamless basis to "meld" with the realism.

ME1 leaned more toward "realistic sci-fi" than anything, the only major "out there" thing being the asari (they just seem so bloody implausible next to every other alien race out there). ME2 dipped a lot more gratuitously into the surrealism pot in a few questionable ways. The lack of space helmets being one. You can't survive in vaccuum like that and different planets have different air pressure you need to contend with--a breather mask is not enough.

[Gabey5]

she is wearing armour criers will cry no matter what

[Varen Spectre]

Is it really fair to attack the GI preview of Ashley as being dramatically oversexualized?

No, it is not fair. Attacking (I guess you mean angry, rude, blaming and other variants of posts on the edge of ToS/ToU) in general is not a fair practice.

Expressing worries about the change of something that one likes and cares for is completely legitimate. If it is done politely. Many people (including me) like Ashley for what she was.

Now that we have seen Liara wearing the same costume that she wears outside of combat areas (the LotSB costume), in actual combat again,... 



...we can presume that it is not completely outside of realm of possibilities, that ME 3 characters, except for Shepard, will have only one costume again. If that will be the case (I hope not), than using Ashley's new outfit as actual combat armor would be quite dissapointing solution for many ME fans.

Therefore me and many others have decided to notify developers that we are not happy with such solution and we are doing it this early, because there is still enough time to change that. Waiting for more materials does indeed sound like a more reasonable approach, but it also brings the danger, that our opinions may come too late. And it's better to be safe than sorry, isn't it?

Modifié par Varen Spectre, 14 mai 2011 - 10:38 .

[DeadLetterBox]

I think the "attack" part is less about thinking it's more IC for Ash to wear heavy armor and more about all the people going "I cant recognize her under all that makeup OMG she looks like a tramp who blew her bewbs up like baloons."

I agree about the armor. Ash needs something sturdy in combat. Saying she looks like a tramp because of the eyeliner and lip gloss is something that irritates me immensely, mostly because usually when I hear guys going on about how their girlfriends should never wear makeup because it makes them look like w**res I find out later they were knocking the girl around the house when nobody else was around.

[Jamesnew2]

What? people are actually arguing over this... Must be fox news running this...

Big deal its a game... Even if it didnt happen there would still be mods for it....  way i see it, its no big deal but if you really are mad about the change.... go rage outside a cosmetic surgery clinic...

[GodWood]

Jamesnew2 wrote...
What? people are actually arguing over this... Must be fox news running this...

Why?

Big deal its a game... Even if it didnt happen there would still be mods for it

2/3 of the audience doesn't have access to mods.

Modifié par GodWood, 14 mai 2011 - 11:55 .

[Jamesnew2]

GodWood wrote...

Jamesnew2 wrote...
What? people are actually arguing over this... Must be fox news running this...

Why?

Big deal its a game... Even if it didnt happen there would still be mods for it

2/3 of the audience doesn't have access to mods.

Fox news had this big hissy fit over the liara romance in me1. And Everyone has access to mods... Just people dont know how to use em and theirs a big tutorial over how to use em... Specially good in Dragon age origins.