735 réponses à ce sujet

[Ashathor]

IMO this just looks like a bad picture. Ashley's face looks like she's spaced out or something and we don't have a full view of how she looks from the different angles. ATM she just doesn't look too appealing to me with just this picture alone. In the other ME's she looked very pretty but with this it makes her look like "army barbie." Heck it even gave her a blank doll stare to boot. But as I said I need more pictures/views of her to decide.

[Nathan Redgrave]

Bluko wrote...

The thing is Kaidan's armor actually conceals his actual features, which probably makes him less hot. You're right though for most guys  wearing big armor tends to look more impressive (since most of don't have chiseled abs) and leaves more to the imagination that we could be quite fit.

As I say, the idea of "sexy" surrounding guys isn't the same as with ladies. Although showing off some of your buffness does help when executed well, it's not as much about the exact curvature of one's body as you'd think. Guys looking a girls have pretty blunt standards; girls looking at guys have some blunt standards mixed in with whatever conception of a guy they see as their brand of attractive. I won't say it's less about looks, but it's not as focused on it. Usually. Probably has something to do with a man's figure having less blatant "sexy" to it, and not really making sexy poses or stances part of the game.

[AdmiralCheez]

Siansonea II wrote...

I never minded Miranda's overt sexuality, because it always seemed to me that Miranda had consciously cultivated it herself, rather than simply being an unwittingly Barbie-esque figure. Miranda has crafted her look, her body language, her demeanor, etc. to give herself an edge. Maybe it's not the most feminist version of an empowered woman, but I don't think Miranda's goal is to take a stand on that issue. She simply wants to put people off balance whether by intimidating other women, or distracting lustful men.

Oh yeah, it wouldn't have bugged me if the camera didn't keep ZOOMING IN ON HER ASS and if she didn't wear it into combat.  Again, Alternate Appearance Pack 2 for the win.  Her character actually really grew on me, to be honest.

I think Samara's demeanor and posture go a long way toward negating her overtly sexualized costume. It also helps that she's an alien, and that her species doesn't have males that would drool over her bodacious bosom. Her cleavage has less meaning to a species who all have breasts themselves. We don't even know to what extent other asari sexualize their own bodies. Sure there are asari strippers galore, but I'm sure they would wear baggy coveralls if they thought it would turn on their clientele. I see that more as a response to the desires of other species than an intrinsic asari celebration of their own bodies. And I get the impression that Samara's costume design is very old-fashioned for the asari, and probably predates first contact with humans, who would be among the first to remark on the sexual aspect of asari breasts. I can't imagine that turians and salarians would care about breasts one way or the other, much less volus, elcor, and hanar. That would be like a human being turned on my a camel's hump.

Yeah, good points.

I loved Sheva, Aveline and a few of the others mentioned, but I will say that I also love Isabela. I don't mind an overtly sexualized character every now and then, especially if they OWN it, and especially if not EVERY character is overtly sexualized.

PRECISELY.  HIGH-MOTHERF*CKING -FIVE.

[Ship.wreck_]

AdmiralCheez wrote...
Quoted For Truth/Quite F*ckin' True

Hahaha AWesome.

[Shadowrun1177]

Ship.wreck wrote...

Shadowrun1177 wrote...
Here's another issue people who say it doesn't fit her character. How do you know it doesn't fit her character, did you create Ashley, did you spend years developing the ME Universe or its residents. The answer is no none of us did so you can't say it doesn't fit her character, cause we only know what Bioware has allowed us to see and know of the characters.

Ugh. Of course we can.

Granted, I didn't create the ME universe or Ashley's character, but I'm not God either: I didn't CREATE my co-workers. But from working with them I know their personalities and I know what would fit them, or not. And likewise from playing ME we know Ashley's personality even though we didn't create it, and we know this look doesn't fit it.

If CREATION was a pre-requisite of knowing someone NO ONE would know ANYONE.

Also see my previous post regarding the ridiculous impracticalities of trying to wear makeup in an active military operation.

Creation isn't a pre-requisite for knowing someone, but just cause you know some stuff about your coworkers doesn't mean you know every side of them. I know I have sides to myself that I don't show people. As for the makeup thing I'll just point out FemShepard. 

In the case of Ashley Bioware being her creators cause she's a fictional character means they know more about her and how she will develop then we as players ever could.

[1Minsc1]

Ship.wreck wrote...

Shadowrun1177 wrote...
Here's another issue people who say it doesn't fit her character. How do you know it doesn't fit her character, did you create Ashley, did you spend years developing the ME Universe or its residents. The answer is no none of us did so you can't say it doesn't fit her character, cause we only know what Bioware has allowed us to see and know of the characters.

Ugh. Of course we can.

Granted, I didn't create the ME universe or Ashley's character, but I'm not God either: I didn't CREATE my co-workers. But from working with them I know their personalities and I know what would fit them, or not. And likewise from playing ME we know Ashley's personality even though we didn't create it, and we know this look doesn't fit it.

If CREATION was a pre-requisite of knowing someone NO ONE would know ANYONE.

Also see my previous post regarding the ridiculous impracticalities of trying to wear makeup in an active military operation.

I admit there are different interpretation of the characters. But because of that what i saw and heard from Ashley it's my conclusion that this new look doesn't fit. Of course BW can develop the characters. They should! But Ashleys writer left BW and so i wonder if her development will be credible.

Modifié par 1Minsc1, 13 mai 2011 - 07:45 .

[AdmiralCheez]

Nathan Redgrave wrote...

As I say, the idea of "sexy" surrounding guys isn't the same as with ladies. Although showing off some of your buffness does help when executed well, it's not as much about the exact curvature of one's body as you'd think. Guys looking a girls have pretty blunt standards; girls looking at guys have some blunt standards mixed in with whatever conception of a guy they see as their brand of attractive. I won't say it's less about looks, but it's not as focused on it. Usually. Probably has something to do with a man's figure having less blatant "sexy" to it, and not really making sexy poses or stances part of the game.

I like buff dudes.  My friend likes skinny little girly boys.  We both like Garrus, who is an angry space chicken with half his face shot off.  Really, so long as a dude isn't completely hideous, all he needs is a kickass personality and there WLL.  BE.  FANGIRLS.

Really, the same COULD apply to guys looking at girls.  In fact, it does--otherwise the "ugly" chicks would have long since died out and I wouldn't have a boyfriend (I'm FAT, dammit!).  The problem is that the media has yet to realize that.

I also like boobies, in case my posts are confusing anyone.  Hurr durr, bisexuality, durr.

Modifié par AdmiralCheez, 13 mai 2011 - 07:48 .

[Siansonea]

I would say that Ash's new look is a definite departure for her, regardless of what we thought of her in the first two games. It's much more appearance-conscious than we're used to from Ash, so there has to be some kind of reason for it. It may be that as a Spectre she feels she needs to be more image conscious than she used to be, but I still doubt that she'd run right out and get the 22nd Century version of breast implants. Eyeliner and cute haircut, sure, but D cup, not so much.

[Ship.wreck_]

Shadowrun1177 wrote...
Creation isn't a pre-requisite for knowing someone, but just cause you know some stuff about your coworkers doesn't mean you know every side of them. I know I have sides to myself that I don't show people. As for the makeup thing I'll just point out FemShepard. 

In the case of Ashley Bioware being her creators cause she's a fictional character means they know more about her and how she will develop then we as players ever could.

True I don't know everything about my co-workers. But I don't NEED to know EVERYTHING about them to know it would out of place and out of character if one of them randomly showed up looking completely different from what the usually choose to look like.

And likewise, I don't know everything about Ash, and I don't NEED to, to know that this is out of character for her. I could buy it if it was under some special circumstance, like she for some reason needs to seduce someone to accomplish something in the plot.

And I could even accept it if her character EVOLVED into being more girly. Like if something happened in the plot that changed her, legitimately. That would be an example of a dynamic character, and dynamic character's not only are acceptable, but make stories better.

But if she just randomly shows up like this at the begining of ME3 with no explanation or reason beyond, "It'll make more horny teenagers buy this game" then I have no choice but to call MAJOR BS on that one. Just because they made her character doesn't mean anything the EVER do with it is ALWAYS true to the character by default. Can we stop pretending that game makers are infalible just because they're game makers?

[Shadowrun1177]

Ship.wreck wrote...

Shadowrun1177 wrote...
Creation isn't a pre-requisite for knowing someone, but just cause you know some stuff about your coworkers doesn't mean you know every side of them. I know I have sides to myself that I don't show people. As for the makeup thing I'll just point out FemShepard. 

In the case of Ashley Bioware being her creators cause she's a fictional character means they know more about her and how she will develop then we as players ever could.

True I don't know everything about my co-workers. But I don't NEED to know EVERYTHING about them to know it would out of place and out of character if one of them randomly showed up looking completely different from what the usually choose to look like.

And likewise, I don't know everything about Ash, and I don't NEED to, to know that this is out of character for her. I could buy it if it was under some special circumstance, like she for some reason needs to seduce someone to accomplish something in the plot.

And I could even accept it if her character EVOLVED into being more girly. Like if something happened in the plot that changed her, legitimately. That would be an example of a dynamic character, and dynamic character's not only are acceptable, but make stories better.

But if she just randomly shows up like this at the begining of ME3 with no explanation or reason beyond, "It'll make more horny teenagers buy this game" then I have no choice but to call MAJOR BS on that one. Just because they made her character doesn't mean anything the EVER do with it is ALWAYS true to the character by default. Can we stop pretending that game makers are infalible just because they're game makers?

I agree with you on some it, and I don't think game makers are infalible. I'll admit personally like the new look of Ashely, but people who say she's "Miranda 2.0" or "Mirandized" or "it doesn't fit her character" are making assumptions without facts based on a screen shot. They have no context of how she's developed or changed not only in the two years since Shepard "died" or the events on Horizon from one conversation and a possible message.  

[Ship.wreck_]

1Minsc1 wrote...
I admit there are different interpretation of the characters. But because of that what i saw and heard from Ashley it's my conclusion that this new look doesn't fit. Of course BW can develop the characters. They should! But Ashleys writer left BW and so i wonder if her development will be credible.

Haha big suprise, Ashley's writer leaves and all of a sudden the character gets revamped so drastically that at least 50% of the fan base thinks she's become a Miranda clone.

Correct me if I'm wrong here Shadow, but I get the impression that Shadow thinks anything BioWare does with Ashley will be credible by default, just because someone who used to work for them created her...

Therefore no matter how different her character seems to become with or without any explanation or visible transition, it's still "true" to her original character.

[1Minsc1]

Siansonea II wrote...

I would say that Ash's new look is a definite departure for her, regardless of what we thought of her in the first two games. It's much more appearance-conscious than we're used to from Ash, so there has to be some kind of reason for it. It may be that as a Spectre she feels she needs to be more image conscious than she used to be, but I still doubt that she'd run right out and get the 22nd Century version of breast implants. Eyeliner and cute haircut, sure, but D cup, not so much.

I would agree, but i think it's "combat-outfit". This "armor" on the shoulder. And this is not credible to me.
If it is casual and should express that she became more self-secure in "civil-life" than i agree.

[Ship.wreck_]

Shadowrun1177 wrote...
I agree with you on some it, and I don't think game makers are infalible. I'll admit personally like the new look of Ashely, but people who say she's "Miranda 2.0" or "Mirandized" or "it doesn't fit her character" are making assumptions without facts based on a screen shot. They have no context of how she's developed or changed not only in the two years since Shepard "died" or the events on Horizon from one conversation and a possible message.  

Well we know she wasn't like this in ME2, wherever she was, because we saw her in that and she looked exactly the same, down to the default armor.

Seriously? Did you see the side by side pic someone posted of the ME3 Ashley next to the ME2 Miranda? It was for any practical intents and purposes IDENTICAL.

As for fitting her character, that's not based on non exiting facts, that's based on EVERY interaction we've had with her throughout ME and briefly in ME2 being contrary to this look and the personality it would denote.

Yes context is important. That's why I allowed for the possibility that this look is under circumstances that require it or that something has happened that resulted in a change in Ashleys personality. Like I said, that would be fine. But I've learned the hard way not to give game developers the benefit of a doubt, and I'm willing to bet that the change we see is based soley on that "more horny teenagers will buy the game" reasoning I mentioned. And won't have any, or any good, explanation in the plot.

Although for the record, if Ashley's character were to naturally EVOLVE into being a little more girly, I would LIKE that. Here tough girl attitude always was a bit of a turn off to me, that's why I originally went with Liara. I can definently appreciate a girl who can kick major ass, and I love that about Ash, but I personally prefer my partners to be at least a little girly. Not too much, but a little.

[Shadowrun1177]

Ship.wreck wrote...

1Minsc1 wrote...
I admit there are different interpretation of the characters. But because of that what i saw and heard from Ashley it's my conclusion that this new look doesn't fit. Of course BW can develop the characters. They should! But Ashleys writer left BW and so i wonder if her development will be credible.

Haha big suprise, Ashley's writer leaves and all of a sudden the character gets revamped so drastically that at least 50% of the fan base thinks she's become a Miranda clone.

Correct me if I'm wrong here Shadow, but I get the impression that Shadow thinks anything BioWare does with Ashley will be credible by default, just because someone who used to work for them created her...

Therefore no matter how different her character seems to become with or without any explanation or visible transition, it's still "true" to her original character.

Your wrong, no matter my personal opinion on the new look cause I would accept it cause I like it. People are assuming she's been turned into a "Miranda clone" based off a single screen shot months before the game is released.  Just cause there is no explanation at this point doesn't mean there isn't one or that we will find out that reason before the game is released cause it could be a spoiler.

Oh, and I'll point out that yes Ashley's original writter is gone, but Casey has said that the people who originally drew the characters are the ones updating their looks. So if anything should worry people it's not the new look, but how her personality itself might change cause of a new writter.

Modifié par Shadowrun1177, 13 mai 2011 - 08:26 .

[PMC65]

Given that there are people who have emotionally invested in the ME world the answer is "yes, all is fair".

After all, they have spent their $$$ & time on the game so they have every right to raise fist, grab pitchforks, scream that they "know" Ashley Williams, etc ... Hell, they can even demand that she look exactly like she did in ME1 and say she should not show any growth at all if that is what they want. If you like or dislike the update, Bioware should get the feedback so that adjustments based off fan feedback can be made, within reason of course. 

I personally like the update ... For me it would be sad to see her "as is - ME1". That would feel like the galaxy kept moving forward while she was kept in some type of capsule ... But if there is no change and she pops out in the same armor, same bun, same dialogue ... I will accept that and move forward. I am just glad that she & Kaiden will have bigger parts in ME3 than ME2.

[Ship.wreck_]

Shadowrun1177 wrote...
Your wrong, no matter my personal opinion on the new look cause I would accept it cause I like it. People are assuming she's been turned into a "Miranda clone" based off a single screen shot months before the game is released.  Just cause there is no explanation at this point doesn't mean there isn't one or that we will find out that reason before the game is released cause it could be a spoiler.

Again, look at that side by side pic someone posted, costume / apprearance IDENTICAL.

BTW that last post was before I saw your acknowledgment that game-makers are NOT infalible.

No one's saying that it's IMPOSSIBLE for there to be a reasonable explanation for why Ashley looks like this. Hell maybe she's jelous that Shepard bonered Miranda and she's trying to win him over by pretending to be something she's not. No one's saying anyone knows.

What we're saying is that IF there's not reasonable explanation, then this is bs. And that there PROBABLY isn't a reasonable explanation.

You could be wrong in assuming that there is a reasonable explanation when there might not necessarily be one. Basically, we feel your optimism is baseless and that game industry executives are douche bags.

[AdmiralCheez]

Character growth =/= breast growth.

[Nathan Redgrave]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

I like buff dudes.  My friend likes skinny little girly boys.  We both like Garrus, who is an angry space chicken with half his face shot off.  Really, so long as a dude isn't completely hideous, all he needs is a kickass personality and there WLL.  BE.  FANGIRLS.

Really, the same COULD apply to guys looking at girls.  In fact, it does--otherwise the "ugly" chicks would have long since died out and I wouldn't have a boyfriend (I'm FAT, dammit!).  The problem is that the media has yet to realize that.

I also like boobies, in case my posts are confusing anyone.  Hurr durr, bisexuality, durr.

Well, speaking in terms of general rules here, the most common straight guy is going to value physical attractiveness and the ratio of guys who like medium-large breasts (at the least) is significantly higher than those who like smaller ones. Guys tend to just have that kind of natural sex drive that goes for this stuff, so our tendency to focus on looks is high. Women seem to have a tendency to focus more obviously on personality for a similar reason--as if it's a natural aspect of the sex drive they're built with, or maybe just a long-practiced mental reaction to the typical "boy sees girl, boy hits on girl, girl decides if boy is worth dating, etc." social courtship style. This isn't a stereotype so much as an acknowledgement that this is where the scales presently sit. It could change or evolve in a number of different ways, but this is where they sit, and media reacts by encouraging and catering to the popular style.

[Nathan Redgrave]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Character growth =/= breast growth.

Can we get off of that, already? Ashley had small boobs in ME1 because everyone had small boobs in ME1. Except the guys, of course, they just all had the same chiseled figure.

[ObserverStatus]

@OP my main objection is that by stealing Samus's zero suit and wearing that, Ashley directly contradicts what she said in ME1.

"Kaidan: Those Asari commandos are impressive. Lightly armoured, but their speed more than makes up for it.
Ashley: Unless that speed lets them outrun bullets, I’m more inclined to stick with nice solid armor and a big gun.
Kaidan: Point taken."

[Ship.wreck_]

AdmiralCheez wrote...

Character growth =/= breast growth.

I heart boobs. I HEART BOOBS!

But then again, I hearted Ashley's boobs. And these are different boobs

If I just wanted big boobs I just stay with Miranda. Which I might just do. Making them look the same reducest he variety! And frankly, I prefer BOTH.

Also, I really hope there's going to be more sex in ME3, although I know I'm going to be dissapointed. God damnit, I'm sick and tired of having to save the f#$%ing galaxy every time I want to get laid!!!

[Mr.House]

I hope it's her casual attire. Kaidan has proper armour, so if Ash wears that crap into combat it will be facepalm inducing, same with Miri ruining around in her ugly cat suit.

[1Minsc1]

Edit: see later post

Modifié par 1Minsc1, 13 mai 2011 - 08:53 .

[Ship.wreck_]

bobobo878 wrote...

@OP my main objection is that by stealing Samus's zero suit and wearing that, Ashley directly contradicts what she said in ME1.

"Kaidan: Those Asari commandos are impressive. Lightly armoured, but their speed more than makes up for it.
Ashley: Unless that speed lets them outrun bullets, I’m more inclined to stick with nice solid armor and a big gun.
Kaidan: Point taken."

Further proof that this new  look is nothing less than a direct contradiction of Ashley's personality and opinions. Again IF there's some reasonable explanation why she would CHANGE her opinions, it's fine. But I HIGHLY doubt there will be one.

See Shadow, this is what we're basing our "assumptions" on. We think Ashley wouldn't wear this because she staight up said: I wouldn't wear that!

[GuardianAngel470]

I love how people are so readily calling her a Miranda clone as if Miranda's only characteristic was her appearance. It just seems so hypocritical to me.

Miranda hated her appearance. Imagine waking up every morning and looking in the mirror and seeing the handiwork of a man you hate. Imagine going to work every day using the intelligence crafted the by something other than nature.

Miranda had her own distinct personality but apparently the only thing Ashley fans, the same ones saying Ashley say has been oversexualized, see in Miranda was her appearance.

It's like they didn't bother listening to anything Miranda had to say. It boggles my mind to be honest.