26 réponses à ce sujet

[Arkalezth]

One of, if not the most annoying bug of this game, for me, is the one that deactivates things like Bard's inspirations, Darkvision, etc, in transitions and when loading a saved game.

In case someone doesn't know what I'm talking about: the ability icon is still showed as active, but the effects don't work. This means that you have to deactivate it, then activate again. It's not that bad with Darkvision because it's instant, but inspirations take a full round, so it's very tedious to do it each time a new area or module is loaded. I haven't played many Bards lately, mainly because of this (yes, I hate it that much).

Is there any fix for it? I reported this to Kaedrin some time ago, but his pack doesn't solve it. If a fix doesn't exist, consider this a request. If someone can solve this issue (I certainly don't know how), I'd be very grateful for it.

[MasterChanger]

I'm not 100% sure, but I think I recall Skywing's Client Extension addressing one or both of these issues.

[manageri]

I'm pretty sure I was playing a bard recently and my inspiritations were staying on despite loading. I did start using the client extension a while back so MC might be right about that fixing it.

[Arkalezth]

It always happens in module transitions, not sure about other transitions.

Thanks both, I've never used Skywing's Client Extension, so I'll take a look. Do you know if it is compatible with things like Kaedrin's or Tony K's?

Edit: It seems to be targeted at multiplayer, that must be why I had never heard of it. I usually play single player, can I use it then, or at least get the bug fixes?

Modifié par Arkalezth, 13 mai 2011 - 08:41 .

[MasterChanger]

Arkalezth wrote...

It always happens in module transitions, not sure about other transitions.

Thanks both, I've never used Skywing's Client Extension, so I'll take a look. Do you know if it is compatible with things like Kaedrin's or Tony K's?

The CE is compatible with pretty much any override or modification,
since it works on a whole other level. As I understand it, it affects
the communication between the game engine and the operating system.

It seems to be targeted at multiplayer, that must be why I had never heard of it. I usually play single player, can I use it then, or at least get the bug fixes?

That's what I thought at first, too, partially because the word "server" is found throughout much of the descriptions. It's not the case, actually--the CE works great for single-player and offers many benefits.

I think that Skywing explained that there's still a "server" in single-player, it's that the server and the client are actually on the same machine. A bit esoteric, but the upshot is that it's very helpful for single-player as well. In fact, I think it solved some strange timing issues that people were experiencing while playing the OC when they had just downloaded the Steam version.

[Arkalezth]

Ok, thanks again, I'll give it a try.

The character I'm playing currently doesn't have neither Bard levels, nor Darkvision. I tried a Bard companion and the inspirations weren't fixed. Darkvision works correctly in companions but that was already the case before installing the CE. I'll need to try a Bard PC to be sure.

[Arkalezth]

Well, I created a Bard, started MoW with the Client Extension, and transitioned back and forth between the districts (module transition if I'm not mistaken).

Inspirations were always deactivated (totally deactivated, not as I described in my first post). Same for Darkvision, except the first time, when it was activated and working. I also saved and reloaded once, the inspiration was activated, and Darkvision wasn't.

So, in short, I don't know what the hell is going on. Inspirations deactivating means that I have to cast them once instead of twice, so it's sort of better if it always works this way, but it's still far from ideal.

[painofdungeoneternal]

I am wondering on the actual issue with inspirations.

Darkvision i know about, but inspirations should work just like ANY other buff spell. If those are an issue i'd think it's a problem with all magical buffs from all classes, and i've not seen that happening. From what i know it seems like there is some script which is removing the effects when you enter/leave an area, not sure if you can test this in a basically blank module, or a really simple module off the vault.

The CE is for SP and MP, the author has done a lot of things for MP, but it fixes a lot of issues for the game in general. Just loading areas should go faster and the map is also quite useful for moving around. You are also a lot less likely to crash as it's fixing a lot of wonky issues all over the place.

Side Note about server-client terminology:
Generally a programmer making a game will group the interface stuff, the rendering and the menus and buttons together, this is what you deal with when you play a game. This is usually using libraries they buy or things like Ogre3d, or things they developed in house and are very complex.

They also will take the game logic, scripting, and things like pathfinding and group these together, this you really can consider the game rules. This is true in almost any game, and it's really more because most games are huge projects done by different teams, and the graphics portion will generally have a very simple way to "talk" to the game logic portion which does a different type of work entirely.

This is not about MP in anyway, but really just to make it so the programmers can get their heads around what is going on, and thus manage the project. ( once they started doing this they noticed it would be pretty easy to implement a separate server. )

The game is actually sending messages between the interface and the game logic when you play in Single player, and in multiplayer those messages are sent from the client to the server via the internet. The code which determines how that game logic runs, and how it deals with those messages is really no different in SP and MP, the only difference is if the game logic is local or if it's remote. It is just the best way to do things regardless of if MP is involved or not.

It actually would probably help improve SP performance a little bit if the game logic / server ran on a separate core than the client is using. This is not something i see end users doing since its a bit too complex, but it would be interesting if you used the CE and started a SP game, if it actually launched the MP server program as a background process on a different core dedicated just to it. Most people have at least dual core chips, and quite a few have quad core at this point. If this were to happen the module designers could actually do a lot more involved massive army's battling each other type modules. ( since most modules are set up for what can be done in SP, and the major bottleneck is the VFX and GPU handling the client i don't see it as a major improvement if this were done, but it would be nice if we could use NWNX plugins in single player modules )

Modifié par painofdungeoneternal, 14 mai 2011 - 12:17 .

[Arkalezth]

About other buffs: yes, they also deactivate in module transitions. But I don't find that as annoying as inspirations. Also, IIRC, spells per day are restored.

[painofdungeoneternal]

And where is this happening? in the OC, custom modules, a PW? Is this related to the overland map? I'd like to know where i can reproduce it.

[Arkalezth]

Single player modules and OCs. In Overland Map too, IIRC. If you have MoW, a fast way to test it is going from one distric to another in the city.

[painofdungeoneternal]

What mods are you using, could you try reproducing in a clean player folder? ( using parameter or just renaming folder, then afterwards rename it back )

[Arkalezth]

I don't think mods are the problem, AFAIK it happens in the vanilla game without mods. Anyway, I don't see any folder named "player", do you mean override?

[Arkalezth]

painofdungeoneternal wrote...
You are also a lot less likely to crash as it's fixing a lot of wonky issues all over the place.

For some reason, I've already had two crashes since I installed the CE, in only one or two hours of play (playing Path of Evil module, if that's important). I rarely got any crashes before.

[I_Raps]

(a) I echo everything Arkalezth has said. PODE - I really don't know how you've missed this, it's universal. I guess you don't use bards much.
( I don't think it's related to spells or other buffs. I think it's related to modes, like combat casting and darkvision, which exhibit the same behavior.
© One thing that might make it less noticeable is that it doesn't happen to the controlled PC as much, but companions virtually always.

[kevL]

Arkalezth wrote...

painofdungeoneternal wrote...

You are also a lot less likely to crash as it's fixing a lot of wonky issues all over the place.

For some reason, I've already had two crashes since I installed the CE, in only one or two hours of play (playing Path of Evil module, if that's important). I rarely got any crashes before.

yes .. it seems to work better in windowed-mode. I've tried it a couple of times (v.20) and in full-screen it crashes me when exiting the game (leaves the Area window & Chat window up, & offers debug text). I recently tried windowed-mode and everything went smoothly, but i don't like windowed-mode. I'd like to use it even in SP, and i really suppose this should be posted down under the CE thread .. so Sky can have a look if he likes (i could probably grab a chunk of debug if he lets me know what to look for)

Suggestions?


to remain OT: i remember the Bard inspirations needing 2 rounds to shut down and turn on again (manually). Haven't played with a bard in a long time tho; the Defensive Casting icon seems to shut itself off on reLoad or leave itself on arbitrarily. I don't trust it, however, and try to always give it a couple of clicks before combats whether I've just loaded, or transitioned (whether in module or to module).

Buffs, i'm working on in SoZ: my present understanding is that they get wiped off always on module transitions, but should remain on area transitions. SoZ has specific code, that wipes buffs on area transitions (that's currently getting removed from my system) .. but I have not looked into the trans-module thing & suspect that's internal


my major beef is only if Bards require two rounds to re-Inspire the party. ps, i'm using the two biggies: K's PrC Pack & TonyK's AI (etc.)

Modifié par kevL, 14 mai 2011 - 08:01 .

[Arkalezth]

You have a point about modes, it may be related to that. I seem to remember Rapid Shot getting deactivated too. Not sure about Power Attack and Expertise, since they're not something I have always active.

Also, the other day I mentioned in a thread a problem with the Warlock Buddy. The bug is the same, and related to transitions.

What I find weird is that, on companions, it always happens with inspirations, but not with Darkvision. If I activate Darkvision on a companion and never touch that button again, it will be active until the end, after reloads, transitions, and whatever.

[kevL]

maybe Kaedrin's onto something,

v1.40.4 changes

Low-light vision and darkvision (when active) will now retoggle automatically when the character is loaded. This will solve the issue with area transitions removing the light but leaving it turned on.

[Arkalezth]

kevL wrote...

yes .. it seems to work better in windowed-mode. I've tried it a couple of times (v.20) and in full-screen it crashes me when exiting the game (leaves the Area window & Chat window up, & offers debug text). I recently tried windowed-mode and everything went smoothly, but i don't like windowed-mode. I'd like to use it even in SP, and i really suppose this should be posted down under the CE thread .. so Sky can have a look if he likes (i could probably grab a chunk of debug if he lets me know what to look for)

Suggestions?

Agreed, windowed mode feels...wrong. I didn't know there was a thread about it, do you have the link?

As for suggestions, well, if it really fixes it (I don't see much difference to be honest), couldn't we only install the bug fixes? I'm not interested in multiplayer for now, so I guess some features are useless for me. Same for Kaedrin, it has a lot of fixes, but they come with the entire pack, and not every module is compatible. I think this game needs a compilation of fixes from different add-ons, without any extra content, and compatible with just about everything. Can't this be done?

to remain OT: i remember the Bard inspirations needing 2 rounds to shut down and turn on again (manually). Haven't played with a bard in a long time tho; the Defensive Casting icon seems to shut itself off on reLoad or leave itself on arbitrarily. I don't trust it, however, and try to always give it a couple of clicks before combats whether I've just loaded, or transitioned (whether in module or to module).
...
my major beef is only if Bards require two rounds to re-Inspire the party. ps, i'm using the two biggies: K's PrC Pack & TonyK's AI (etc.)

Yes, that's the problem, the icon is blinking, but the effects aren't applied. The way inspirations work make them more tedious in comparison. That's why I sometimes prefer a Bard companion rather than a Bard PC: just let the AI do the hard work. However, the AI doesn't recognize the bug (no turn off and turn on), so after reloads/transitions, a companion's inspiration may be blinking indefinitely without any effect at all.

Edit: Good to know Kaedrin's into it. Now if we could have the same fix for inspirations, and without the need for his entire pack for the fix to be compatible with everything...

Modifié par Arkalezth, 14 mai 2011 - 08:38 .

[kevL]

Arkalezth wrote...

kevL wrote...

yes .. it seems to work better in windowed-mode. I've tried it a couple of times (v.20) and in full-screen it crashes me when exiting the game (leaves the Area window & Chat window up, & offers debug text). I recently tried windowed-mode and everything went smoothly, but i don't like windowed-mode. I'd like to use it even in SP, and i really suppose this should be posted down under the CE thread .. so Sky can have a look if he likes (i could probably grab a chunk of debug if he lets me know what to look for)

Suggestions?

Agreed, windowed mode feels...wrong. I didn't know there was a thread about it, do you have the link?

jah

http://social.biowar...1/index/3116438

As for suggestions, well, if it really fixes it (I don't see much difference to be honest), couldn't we only install the bug fixes? I'm not interested in multiplayer for now, so I guess some features are useless for me. Same for Kaedrin, it has a lot of fixes, but they come with the entire pack, and not every module is compatible. I think this game needs a compilation of fixes from different add-ons, without any extra content, and compatible with just about everything. Can't this be done?

that's a lot of work .. separating K's efforts into discrete components would be .. i'll just pass out now.

[Arkalezth]

Thanks for the link. I don't know how much work would that imply, but I guess we would already have it if it was easy and fast.

[painofdungeoneternal]

It just does not make sense to "just do the things you want" as they are all related, what you can do is just not use the things you don't want ( or deactivate them in the 2da ) but that chopping it up is all additional work which is going to cause more issues unless you really understand how everything goes together.

If things are done well, the things you don't use don't affect things at all.

Modifié par painofdungeoneternal, 14 mai 2011 - 10:48 .

[Arkalezth]

But even if they're done well, you can't always use them (Kaedrin's pack, for example), that's the problem. I just asked because I didn't know if it could be done, I'm not asking anyone to do it. Kaedrin has fixed a lot of bugs and I appreciate it, but if a module isn't compatible, all these fixes are gone.

Back on topic, I loaded a save without the CE (I tried windowed mode, but it's too small for my taste), and the PC had an inspiration active. So, for now, the only difference I've noticed with the CE is the crashes.

[SkywingvL]

If you can retrieve and PM me the client crash logs from your crashes, I'd be interested in reviewing them.

The crash log can be found at your NWN2 install directory (i.e. under ProgramFiles) - as a file called nwn2_errorlog.txt. On Vista or Win7, you may need to click 'Compatibility files' to see the log.

The CE only saves and restores Darkvision across transitions, not any other player modes. I haven't looked into what the problem is with inspirations (first I have heard of it, but I don't typically play a bard) nor what it might take to fix.

[Arkalezth]

I've been playing a bit with a Bard (Kaedrin's installed, no CE) and now inspirations deactivate (turned off, not blinking) when changing modules. Area transitions seems to maintain it active for now.

SkywingvL: Thanks for clearing that up. I'll PM you with the crash log.