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[Bad King]

In ME1, Kaiden tells you about Conatix Industries, a corporation set up by the Alliance shortly after they made contact with the Citadel council to study biotic abilities in children who had been exposed to element zero in-utero. The Alliance and Conatix worked closely- Conatix would take biotic children from their homes across Alliance space and send them for a brutal biotic training regime at Gagarin Station. There were rumours that Conatix were purposefully causing eezo dust exposures in several colonies (its mutagenic effects would also cause terminal cancer in a lot of the individuals exposed). The evidence for this came in 2163 when Conatix became suspiciously fast at tracking down individuals with biotic abilities (as if they knew exactly where to look).

Fast forward seven years to 2170 and we see some more evidence for deliberate exposures, this time by Cerberus. There were exposures across four different colonies (Yandoa being one of them). These exposures created dozens of infants with biotic abilities who were brought to the Alliance's Ascension project (by this time Conatix had closed down).

But is there a link between the 2160 and 2170 exposures? We have to remember what Kahoku said following his investigation into Cerberus- that they were formerly a part of the Alliance. So, we know that the Alliance and Conatix were working closely together, but what if they were working together even closer than we think? 

So, here's the theory- the rumoured Conatix deliberate exposures were actually done by Cerberus under the orders of the Alliance in an attempt to gain more human biotics. Conatix presented the idea to the Alliance and the Alliance went along with it. The Cerberus exposure in 2170 was also an Alliance plan. By using Cerberus, the Alliance could appear to distance itself from these unethical activities while secretly supporting them. Cerberus would be the perfect scapegoat for the Alliance if these 'forced exposures' were ever found out about. The Alliance could gain more human biotics in their training facilities while maintaining their good public image.

Modifié par Bad King, 13 mai 2011 - 10:03 .

[Warlock Adam]

Perhaps, although the SB's files seem to indicate that Cerberus was the sole force behind the incident. According to the Cerberus timeline, the eezo accidents directly result from Cerberus's actions, and the SB would be the most likely person to know. At any rate, it seems more likely that an independent Cerberus would manufacture the accidents to provide the Alliance with biotics and THEN join up with them, as opposed to doing it directly under their orders. I imagine TIM having some knowledge of biotics due to his Reaper tech, and the Alliance taking that info and running with it.

[Dean_the_Young]

Cerberus was part of the Alliance for most of its history... so yes.

[M-Sinistrari]

Arcian wrote...

I don't think every single accident was engineered, but most of them probably were, and I'm betting my ten dollahs on ye olde Cerberus.

I agree.  It only makes sense since biotics were in such demand that likely for every honest accident, some buisiness or government was arranging for an accident.

[Nathan Redgrave]

"The Alliance" is a bit broad, and it may have been more of a Cerberus decision than an Alliance one.

Which is to say: elements within the Alliance (not the Alliance as a whole), and it may have been a call made or proposed first by Cerberus, since it's more likely that the individuals with the ruthless views necessary to come up with such plans were working with Cerberus at the time.

Keep in mind that the Alliance is made up of all kinds, so just saying "the Alliance" is too broad an accusation. Cerberus is a bit cleaner-cut, since the nature of the organization itself is a "do whatever it takes" deal and its head honcho is definitely not above detonating a few drive cores in convenient locations to see what makes biotics tick. It's a reasonable guess that anyone who works for them and is in a position to make such decisions within Cerberus is likely also the kind of "Renegade" mind that would rationalize it as necessary.

The degree to which individuals within Alliance brass may have cooperated or passively condoned such actions is a question mark worth bringing up, however.

Modifié par Nathan Redgrave, 13 mai 2011 - 05:58 .

[Warlock Adam]

Did Cerberus start as an Alliance group, or did it start as a TIM run thing? It seemed like from the files that the Alliance didn't know anything about it at first. I know it worked with the Alliance for a while

[M-Sinistrari]

Warlock Adam wrote...

Did Cerberus start as an Alliance group, or did it start as a TIM run thing? It seemed like from the files that the Alliance didn't know anything about it at first. I know it worked with the Alliance for a while

There's been enough said for both angles to be a possibility.  I can see things as having started out as an Alliance subgroup with things changing once TIM became a part of it.  Once he moved into the head of organization spot, then I can see where it essentially became it's own entity.

[Bad King]

So what do you guys think about Conatix? Kaiden seems to think that they were responsible for many of the eezo exposures. I'm betting that Conatix was working with the Alliance and Cerberus when they were planning these deliberate exposures.

[Nathan Redgrave]

Warlock Adam wrote...

Did Cerberus start as an Alliance group, or did it start as a TIM run thing? It seemed like from the files that the Alliance didn't know anything about it at first. I know it worked with the Alliance for a while

The codex entries on issues like Cerberus and the Reapers are meant to be read as "in-universe" data files, i.e. if general intel excludes the affiliation with the Alliance, the affiliation with the Alliance is left out of the entry. Some of the entries are more forthcoming, as they're intended to be read as coming from a less biased or censor-prone source.

[Bad King]

Warlock Adam wrote...

Perhaps, although the SB's files seem to indicate that Cerberus was the sole force behind the incident. According to the Cerberus timeline, the eezo accidents directly result from Cerberus's actions, and the SB would be the most likely person to know. At any rate, it seems more likely that an independent Cerberus would manufacture the accidents to provide the Alliance with biotics and THEN join up with them, as opposed to doing it directly under their orders. I imagine TIM having some knowledge of biotics due to his Reaper tech, and the Alliance taking that info and running with it.

Where in the SB files does it mention Cerberus's involvement in the deliberate eezo exposures?

As for Cerberus doing these acts independent of the Alliance, I'm not so sure. Conatix's close relationship with the Alliance makes me think that the Alliance were in on the plan for exposing colonies to eezo, and they ordered Cerberus to cause the eezo exposures.

[Bad King]

Nathan Redgrave wrote...

Warlock Adam wrote...

Did Cerberus start as an Alliance group, or did it start as a TIM run thing? It seemed like from the files that the Alliance didn't know anything about it at first. I know it worked with the Alliance for a while

The codex entries on issues like Cerberus and the Reapers are meant to be read as "in-universe" data files, i.e. if general intel excludes the affiliation with the Alliance, the affiliation with the Alliance is left out of the entry. Some of the entries are more forthcoming, as they're intended to be read as coming from a less biased or censor-prone source.

I believe Kahoku when he claims that they were formerly with the Alliance. As an Alliance Admiral, I bet that he had access to a lot of info on Alliance operations, not to mention that he bought lots of valuable info off the Shadow Broker.

[PMC65]

The Alliance is not a fuzzy bunny shop but military so it would not surprise me. 

Look at real world military and you can see where lines get blurred when guns, bombs, ideaology, science, peace, dominance, resources, safety of citizens, etc. are at play and/or at stake. 

Whether it is right or wrong, justified or irresponsible ... that is another topic. 
  
 

[Warlock Adam]

Oops, my bad. SB files seem to say nothing about Cerberus being involved with eezo exposure. Just my memory being faulty.

[Jzadek72]

Whether it was Alliance or Cerberus, I don't care. Whoever did it was wrong, and I'd put it past neither of them.

[Nathan Redgrave]

Bad King wrote...

Nathan Redgrave wrote...

Warlock Adam wrote...

Did Cerberus start as an Alliance group, or did it start as a TIM run thing? It seemed like from the files that the Alliance didn't know anything about it at first. I know it worked with the Alliance for a while

The codex entries on issues like Cerberus and the Reapers are meant to be read as "in-universe" data files, i.e. if general intel excludes the affiliation with the Alliance, the affiliation with the Alliance is left out of the entry. Some of the entries are more forthcoming, as they're intended to be read as coming from a less biased or censor-prone source.

I believe Kahoku when he claims that they were formerly with the Alliance. As an Alliance Admiral, I bet that he had access to a lot of info on Alliance operations, not to mention that he bought lots of valuable info off the Shadow Broker.

The Broker's agent who contacts you after the first Cerberus sidequest claims he was only able to provide the location of one of Cerberus's bases, and that the Broker actually didn't have much knowledge about Cerberus at the time. It's obviously not so by the time of ME2, where he not only has at least one well-placed mole (Wilson) but access to frivolous information on the Illusive Man's daily habits, but it's also possible that the agent in question knew less than the Shadow Broker himself, and the Broker simply deemed it advisable to withhold information from his agents at the time.

[Bad King]

Nathan Redgrave wrote...

Bad King wrote...

Nathan Redgrave wrote...

Warlock Adam wrote...

Did Cerberus start as an Alliance group, or did it start as a TIM run thing? It seemed like from the files that the Alliance didn't know anything about it at first. I know it worked with the Alliance for a while

The codex entries on issues like Cerberus and the Reapers are meant to be read as "in-universe" data files, i.e. if general intel excludes the affiliation with the Alliance, the affiliation with the Alliance is left out of the entry. Some of the entries are more forthcoming, as they're intended to be read as coming from a less biased or censor-prone source.

I believe Kahoku when he claims that they were formerly with the Alliance. As an Alliance Admiral, I bet that he had access to a lot of info on Alliance operations, not to mention that he bought lots of valuable info off the Shadow Broker.

The Broker's agent who contacts you after the first Cerberus sidequest claims he was only able to provide the location of one of Cerberus's bases, and that the Broker actually didn't have much knowledge about Cerberus at the time. It's obviously not so by the time of ME2, where he not only has at least one well-placed mole (Wilson) but access to frivolous information on the Illusive Man's daily habits, but it's also possible that the agent in question knew less than the Shadow Broker himself, and the Broker simply deemed it advisable to withhold information from his agents at the time.

Or the agent wasn't telling Shepard everything he knew, and was withholding the fact that Kahoku had asked for more than simply the location of their bases.

Modifié par Bad King, 14 mai 2011 - 12:18 .

[MICHELLE7]

Bad King wrote...

Nathan Redgrave wrote...

Warlock Adam wrote...

Did Cerberus start as an Alliance group, or did it start as a TIM run thing? It seemed like from the files that the Alliance didn't know anything about it at first. I know it worked with the Alliance for a while

The codex entries on issues like Cerberus and the Reapers are meant to be read as "in-universe" data files, i.e. if general intel excludes the affiliation with the Alliance, the affiliation with the Alliance is left out of the entry. Some of the entries are more forthcoming, as they're intended to be read as coming from a less biased or censor-prone source.

I believe Kahoku when he claims that they were formerly with the Alliance. As an Alliance Admiral, I bet that he had access to a lot of info on Alliance operations, not to mention that he bought lots of valuable info off the Shadow Broker.

It's been a while but wasn't there a line in ME1 where they said that Cerberus was an Alliance Black ops operation that went rogue(or so was claimed). The way Hackett spoke about Cerberus(that they got things done to paraphrase) in Arrival I wouldn't be surprised if we find out that Cerberus still has connections to the Alliance...especially after the Kasmui graybox revealation. For all we know the shutting down of conatix could have been another "official" story that Kaidan and the other biotics were told to smooth things over. It could have simply gone underground within the Alliance to later resurrect as Cerberus. Just speculation on my part but I do think something is up...there have been too many hints for there not to be.

Modifié par MICHELLE7, 14 mai 2011 - 03:40 .

[Bad King]

MICHELLE7 wrote...

Bad King wrote...

Nathan Redgrave wrote...

Warlock Adam wrote...

Did Cerberus start as an Alliance group, or did it start as a TIM run thing? It seemed like from the files that the Alliance didn't know anything about it at first. I know it worked with the Alliance for a while

The codex entries on issues like Cerberus and the Reapers are meant to be read as "in-universe" data files, i.e. if general intel excludes the affiliation with the Alliance, the affiliation with the Alliance is left out of the entry. Some of the entries are more forthcoming, as they're intended to be read as coming from a less biased or censor-prone source.

I believe Kahoku when he claims that they were formerly with the Alliance. As an Alliance Admiral, I bet that he had access to a lot of info on Alliance operations, not to mention that he bought lots of valuable info off the Shadow Broker.

It's been a while but wasn't there a line in ME1 where they said that Cerberus was an Alliance Black ops operation that went rogue(or so was claimed). The way Hackett spoke about Cerberus(that they got things done to paraphrase) in Arrival I wouldn't be surprised if we find out that Cerberus still has connections to the Alliance...especially after the Kasmui graybox revealation. For all we know the shutting down of conatix could have been another "official" story that Kaidan and the other biotics were told to smooth things over. It could have simply gone underground within the Alliance to later resurrect as Cerberus. Just speculation on my part but I do think something is up...there have been too many hints for there not to be.

Or maybe the Alliance merged Conatix into Cerberus- this would allow them to continue their scandalous operations secretly without public knowledge.

[Vengeful Nature]

Bad King wrote...

In ME1, Kaiden tells you about Conatix Industries, a corporation set up by the Alliance shortly after they made contact with the Citadel council to study biotic abilities in children who had been exposed to element zero in-utero.

Just a small correction: I got the impression that Conatix was contracted for the BAaT project, and they existed before then. So they were a company who were involved in biotechnology and cybernetics, then won the contract to develop biotics for the Alliance, who funded it. Much like BAE or Boeing do contract work for various militaries IRL.

Bad King wrote...
Or maybe the Alliance merged Conatix into
Cerberus- this would allow them to continue their scandalous operations
secretly without public knowledge.

Well, Kaidan said they went bust after the scandal and split into a bunch of different little firms researching the same thing. But it's not unreasonable to assume that some of these smaller firms or just personnel from Conatix started doing work directly for Alliance black-ops projects, who then went on to form the nucleus of Cerberus.