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[Shard of Truth]

Okay, this bugs me a while now, maybe someone here can shed light on this matter. The exact quote of Dragon Age II is "There are fourteen Circles of Magi in Thedas, excluding those in the
Tevinter Imperium. The Circle at the Gallows in Kirkwall is one of two
in the Free Marches and is the center of templar power in the East."

So lets count:

Ferelden
The Circle Tower (Kinloch Hold) - status depends on PC's decisions - First Enchanter Irving
Circle of Jainen (added previously in Dragon Age Legends) - status? - First Enchanter Jendrik

Free Marches
Circle of Kirkwall (Gallows) - status depends on PC's decisions - First Enchanter Orsino
Circle of Starkhaven - burned down before Act I of DAII, but is restored? - First Enchanter Raddick

Circle of Ansburg - status ? - First Enchanter Luidweg
Circle of Markham - destroyed? - ?
Circle of Ostwick - status ? - ?

Orlais
Circle of Montsimmard - status ? - ?

Rivain
Circle of Rivain (probably in Dairsmuid) - status ? - ?

Anderfels
Circle of Hossberg - status ? - ?

Nevarra
College of Magi in Cumberland -most important circle outside of Tevinter - First Enchanter Josephus?

Antiva
Circle of Antiva (City) - status? - ? (thanks to IapetusNeume for Zevran's quote)

Other mentioned Circles (not controlled by the White Divine)
Circle of Minrathous
Circle of Orzammar (possibly)

I linked to a source when the circle is only mentioned a few times (or in some cases only once) in the games.

The real questions is: Which Circles actually still exists and which are fake, I don't trust anything from Dragon Age Legends or the Black Emporium for that matter.

Modifié par Shard of Truth, 15 mai 2011 - 03:06 .

[IapetusNeume]

From Origins:

ZEVRAN: You know, I have heard stories about your Circle of the Magi, my dear Wynne.
WYNNE: Is that so.
ZEVRAN: There is a Circle in my country, of course, but perhaps things are different here.
ZEVRAN: I visited the Antivan Circle on official Crow business, once. Met a beautiful young apprentice who was very eager for a taste of the outside world...
WYNNE: Please! Please, get to the point.
ZEVRAN: All I wonder is whether the templars guard the mages here as closely as they do in Antiva.
ZEVRAN: In Antiva, the templars watch the Circle like a jealous husband guarding the chastity of a wanton bride.
WYNNE: Interesting metaphor, but yes, it is not too different in Ferelden.
ZEVRAN: And is it also true that when the moon swells to fullness, the mages of the Circle gather at the top floor of their tower and, naked under the stars, make love to each other?
WYNNE: What? No! Maker's breath...
ZEVRAN: Oh. I found out recently that it was not true in Antiva and hoped that it would be in Ferelden. Alas.

(But then again, it could always be Zevran pulling Wynne's chain.)

Modifié par IapetusNeume, 15 mai 2011 - 06:14 .

[Shard of Truth]

Thanks, that's really helpful.

Maybe a mod can move this thread in the spoiler section, I wasn't paying attention yesterday.

[Witcha]

Wait... There's a second  Circle of Magi in Ferelden? That doesn't seem right; it would at least have been mentioned in the game. Is Dragon Age: Legends canon?

Modifié par Witcha, 15 mai 2011 - 03:58 .

[Shard of Truth]

I'm wondering that too, in fact this is not the only time Dragon Age Legends directly contradicts the main games. An official word from Bioware (especially from Mr. Gaider) would be nice on that matter.

[IapetusNeume]

You're welcome!

I've tried finding a page for Jainen, but a google search did no good. (First result was this thread, and nothing relevant after it.) I haven't gotten that far in Legends yet, but it seems really, really weird.

This probably wouldn't bug me so much if it weren't for the fact that one of the major quests in Origins revolves around the Circle. If there was more than one it would certainly be mentioned somehow during the quest.

[Shard of Truth]

Jainen is a nearly destroyed port town on the last map of the Waking Sea. The circle tower is located in the western part of the town (as seen here).
There is a Bann of the Waking Sea so I assumed it's still in Ferelden, the approximate location can be seen on this map.

[Lightbleeder]

You say "Orzammar (Possibly)" but are you referring to a possible future Circle of Magi? Because I'm pretty sure they don't have one at the moment (as evidenced by the fact the dwarf you help there needs to go to Lake Calenhad) and that they never would have needed one anyway as dwarves supposedly can't use magic.

I'm sure you're aware of all that anyway but I'm just interested to find out what made you think there may be or may have at one point been a Circle in Orzammar.

[Shard of Truth]

No, you're right, I'm just refering to the epilogue "rumor" (I think that's the new definition of it) of Origins and added the Circle for the sake of completeness.

Modifié par Shard of Truth, 20 mai 2011 - 10:47 .

[Lightbleeder]

Ah okay, that makes sense. This list is very useful and I hope you are able to update it as more information about the Circles is revealed, the second Circle in Ferelden threw me completely when I noticed it in Legends and in my search for some form of official confirmation I came across this thread. I hope someone at BioWare confirms its canonicity because I can't help but wonder why something that important was never mentioned in Origins.

[Shantallas]

I saw the title Orlesian chantry, but as we know there is only 2 different chantries over Thedas the white Divine and the black Divine in Tevinter. The white divine seats on grand cathedral in Val Royeux (orlais) thats true but the Chantry are not to be involved in Politics as mentioned a few times in the game.i.e on Landsmeet when u mention the dungeon(hendon howe one) where a templar is kept, the revered mother of denerim says something about that not even a noble can interfere with chantry business. The Chantry are a independent order of her own and i dare to say that is the Chantry that has the most powerfull political power in Thedas i.e. The right to call a Exalted March. so with most respect ,there is no orlesian chantry.

[Shard of Truth]

You're right of course, but I wanted a distinction between the two chantries that could fit in a headline, because the circles of Tevinter are not included in the quote from Dragon Age II.

[Shantallas]

"Magic must serve man, not rule over him,"
"Chantry there interpreted the rule as meaning that mages should never control the minds of other men, and that otherwise their magic should benefit the rulers of men as much as possible. When the clerics of Tevinter altered the Chant of Light to reflect this interpretation of the commandment, the Divine in Val Royeaux ordered the clerics to revert to the original Chant. They refused...."
The Tevinter mages not only can use Blood magic freely but also are involved in politics, something forbidden in the commom chantry.

[Ghostdanser]

If you think it was fun trying to sort this out before, here's a new headache to consider, Bearing in mind that the Tevinter mages aren't members of the College of Magi, there is a conclave called for in Dragon Age: Asunder. Those invited are the Grand Enchanter, the First Enchanters of each Circle, and few mages with pertinent info (trying not to give out spoilers).

So when it comes time for the meeting to commence it is mentioned on page 337 that:

"The White Spires great hall dwarfed those present: 15 first enchanters, short 4 who couldn't make it in time, plus the Grand Enchanter."

By my count that makes 19 Circles in Thedas (not including the Tevinter Circles)...unless that was a clumsy attempt to say there are 15 circles and 4 couldn't attend, so 11 first enchanters actually showed up...if that was the intent it really doesn't come through very clearly.

[Shard of Truth]

Thanks, for the Asunder quote, I don't have the book yet. So it's either 11, 14, 19 or none at all in DA3.

Are any of First Enchanter names mentioned by the way?

[commanderVal]

Some are named actually. I don't know how much can be revealed here without spoilers since not many might have read Asunder yet.

My main issue with legends was that it was a horrible, horrible attempt at bringing a Dragon Age based game onto Facebook and didn't look anything like what BioWare would have done. What in blazes were Darkspawn doing fighting alongside bandits? Where did all of it fit into the already existing lore? Bah! Now we have an extra Circle in Ferelden to account for- unless Legends was fairly far back in time and Kinloch Hold is the replacement for a destroyed Circle in Jainen. I lost patience with Legends and stopped playing long ago so my info means very little here.

The DA writing team do make glaring mistakes but I suppose we can chalk it down to evolving ideas. For one thing, Origins maintains that Greagoir and Irving have been part of the Circle for as long as anyone can remember but certain events in The Calling would then prove near impossible if that were the case.

As far as that quote from Asunder about the number of Circles go, I believe it means that there are 15 First Enchanters but 4 could not make it for various reasons. This is based on the fact that later, there is a meeting between the fifteen Knight Commanders of Thedas- and the Knight Commanders are the Templar counterparts of the First Enchanters.

[Ghostdanser]

Yeah…I’m trying to avoid spoilers, but the Dragon Age Wikia site has a list of known First Enchanter’s posted,,,

http://dragonage.wik...First_enchanter

I don’t know how the tabletop version of the RPG fits into canon, but the tabletop game is what got me looking into this…so here is a quote that might shed some light on Kinloch Hold:

It is no accident that the Circle Tower of Ferelden is situated on a remote island far from the more populous cities. Long ago it was in Denerim, but an angry mob burned it down.  -  Green Ronin’s Dragon Age RPG Set 1 PG page 15

And I have to say that to me it makes a lot of sense that the Ferelden Circle started in Denerim before being moved to Kinloch Hold.

 I also found a comment by David Gaider that has a bit of information in it, but it is dated…

http://social.biowar.../index/930435/1

David Gaider wrote...

Ferelden has a Circle of Magi. Other nations may have more than one -- Orlais, in fact, has five.
The Circles are dictated by the Chantry, based on regional population and need. It has nothing to do, really, with where the Circles are located. Some Circles are also smaller or larger than others.

 This got me thinking…could Jainen be considered an Orlesian Circle? Perhaps it was created during the Orlesian occupation.  Circles don’t technically belong to a country…so maybe it is still considered Orlesian even though it is on Ferelden soil.

Modifié par Ghostdanser, 30 mars 2012 - 02:09 .

[Ghostdanser]

Doh!
Just remembered there's a Circle for you to add under Orlais...

The White Spire (Val Royeaux)

Modifié par Ghostdanser, 30 mars 2012 - 02:42 .

[commanderVal]

Ghostdanser wrote...

 This got me thinking…could Jainen be considered an Orlesian Circle? Perhaps it was created during the Orlesian occupation.  Circles don’t technically belong to a country…so maybe it is still considered Orlesian even though it is on Ferelden soil.

To quote Maric: "Then you don't know Loghain." I doubt the man would have put up with any sort of Orlesian presence in Ferelden after the occupation was ended. Or maybe he's the one that razed it? I wouldn't put it past him.. But I'm going off topic with my Loghain worship..

edit: spelling mistakes.

Modifié par commanderVal, 30 mars 2012 - 05:07 .

[Ghostdanser]

You’re right about Loghain, but just for the sake of argument the Bann of the Waking Sea would be in Teyrn Cousland’s territory, not Teyrn Loghain. Perhaps if the Circle of Jainen had been allowed to continue as an Orlesian endeavor…at the request of the Chantry (or some other political reason), it would have given Loghain another reason to be suspicious of the Cousland’s, and another reason for wanting them gone.

Eh…not likely, but a thought.